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Rumor Spaceship Earth Refurb - 2 Year Closure

Marc Davis Fan

Well-Known Member
Iger has proven his faith is strictly in IP's and not in the imagineers to come up with lasting original attractions to add to the parks. Quantity ≠ Quality.
I agree that Iger and his “administration” overemphasize IPs in a way that can have a negative impact on the parks. When everything around you is related to an existing movie/“franchise,” it causes the sense of being in “another world” - a major part of what makes Disney parks what they are - to be drastically reduced. We absolutely do have reasons for grave concern about the future of the parks.

However, that doesn’t mean IP-based projects (and other new projects) aren’t high-quality Imagineering. It would be very hard to argue that Buena Vista Street, Cars Land, or Pandora aren’t high quality - even if you have substantial criticisms of some of the creative/design decisions involved.

The late-phase Eisner regime gave new attractions and even entire parks a very low budgets (even though total expenditures were high, that is deceptive because they were spread extremely thin). It’s easy to look back with rose-tinted glasses and forget what projects like DCA 1.0 were like - breaking entirely from the Disney design traditions of immersion and separation from the outside world, etc. There was no indication under that regime that Disney would ever develop anything on the scale of what Iger started doing as soon as his tenure began. He recognized the importance of immersion, attention to detail/quality, etc., and pushed for Disney to get back to its roots that way. It’s impossible to know exactly what would have happened if Iger had not become CEO, but it’s quite possible that we would have continued to see minuscule-budget parks and attractions until Disney theme parks became indistinguishable from amusement parks. We should be extraordinarily thankful that that didn’t happen.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
Advertisement
The things MK will be getting for the 50th:
  • a new fireworks show or a revised HEA
  • a new night time 'electric' parade
  • a new day time parade or a revised FoF
  • the completion of the Tomorrowland refresh
  • TRON Light Cycles
  • TRON Racers (a thematic refresh of Speedway, if the budget holds)
  • most assuredly a new castle show
  • probably a new Move It Shake it with a company-wide theme
  • definitely a new cupcake
  • gate-front infrastructure continued to be upgraded for even larger crowds
  • updated PhilharMagic
  • maybe the explosion scene added to BTMR like it is for DL
  • maybe a replacement for Stitch's Great Escape by then
  • Carousel of Progress refurb, especially last scene
  • likely a lot of temporary, pop-up streetmosphere
  • bunting... lots and lots of bunting.
Don't forget.
348813
 

tigerlight

Well-Known Member
Keep in mind, if I spend 300 million dollars on a Picasso, it doesn't make me smarter than the guy I bought it from who got it for 25 mil . . .

The amount of money he's invested is less important than the quality of those investments. Iger's track record with the parks is not abysmal, but it's far from pristine.
As I said.... love or hate what he’s done but don’t deny that ’s he’s invested more than anyone AND taken some risks in choosing to do so. Eisner and many others might have used that cash to a) buy another Primeval Whirl, and HIGHLY LIKELY b) buy back stock in order to further goose the share price...

One more FACT: there were far cheaper options on the table, and available for Iger to select, than what he wound up choosing in every single case. Eisner loved to pick the cheapest options, Iger hasn’t from day one.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
As I said.... love or hate what he’s done but don’t deny that ’s he’s invested more than anyone AND taken some risks in choosing to do so. Eisner and many others might have used that cash to a) buy another Primeval Whirl, and HIGHLY LIKELY b) buy back stock in order to further goose the share price...

One more FACT: there were far cheaper options on the table, and available for Iger to select, than what he wound up choosing in every single case. Eisner loved to pick the cheapest options, Iger hasn’t from day one.
The only thing that I'm denying is that the amount of money he's spent is a really meaningful gauge of anything. Why on earth is TRON costing 3 times Everest, an objectively much more ambitious coaster? I'm glad for Bob's willingness to spend money on the parks - finally - but let's not pretend he's notorious for spending it wisely.

You could just as easily say that there were more ambitious versions of everything on the table too, and he's never chosen them. You can capitalize the word FACT all day if you like, but it doesn't automatically make what you're saying anything more than a relative statement. Bob's been pretty middle-of-the-road for the parks, when you consider all things.

PS: Eisner only got in the habit of penny pinching in the waning years of his tenure - he spent a lot of money prior to that and with it came some a lot of the most ambitious and creative work ever developed for the parks. Still a mixed bag, but he had a better batting average than Bob.
 

tigerlight

Well-Known Member
The only thing that I'm denying is that the amount of money he's spent is a really meaningful gauge of anything. Why on earth is TRON costing 3 times Everest, an objectively much more ambitious coaster? I'm glad for Bob's willingness to spend money on the parks - finally - but let's not pretend he's notorious for spending it wisely.

You could just as easily say that there were more ambitious versions of everything on the table too, and he's never chosen them. You can capitalize the word FACT all day if you like, but it doesn't automatically make what you're saying anything more than a relative statement. Bob's been pretty middle-of-the-road for the parks, when you consider all things.

PS: Eisner only got in the habit of penny pinching in the waning years of his tenure - he spent a lot of money prior to that and with it came some a lot of the most ambitious and creative work ever developed for the parks. Still a mixed bag, but he had a better batting average than Bob.
Don't know where you get your facts, but where is it reported by the company (or viable media), that TRON is costing $300M+ to build? I promise you, it isn't.

Eisner has a better batting average than Iger? Huh? According to who? You? By what metric? Good grief, even Eisner wouldn't say that and you can ask him, he responds to Twitter/Instagram messages. Do you even know what Eisner built/approved?

Iger major projects personally approved:
  1. Cars Land / DCA 2.0
  2. Pandora
  3. Two (now 4) new $1B cruise ships
  4. Shanghai DL
  5. Aulani
Pending:
  1. SWGE x2
  2. HK DL Rebuild
  3. DL Studios Paris Rebuild
Are ANY of these duds? Are any of them likely to be? They are extremely high quality/high budget.

Eisner mega duds:
  1. DCA 1.0
  2. DL Studios Paris
  3. HK Disneyland (high quality but completely underperformed, lost money, limited attractions, too small budget, etc.)
  4. Chester/Hester/and various other "off-the-shelf" cheapo "expansions."
Eisner underbuilds:
  1. AK - opened with TWO major attractions because budget wouldn't allow more and Imagineers choose quality over quantity, and he went along.
  2. MGM Studios - opened with TWO rides due to limited budget. Compare that to Shanghai.
Eisner hits:
Yes, a good number during his first 10 years. But hardly enough to call his "batting average" better than Iger.

Don't get me wrong, I worked under Eisner and liked him. He saved the Company, but Iger runs circles around him by every available metric, I believe even HE would admit that.
 
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Kamikaze

Well-Known Member
It’s amazing to me that it will take them more time to redo a single ride in the same park it took them less time to build in its entirety
It is a little crazy, but SW:GE is going to take 3+ years at both locations as well. And they don't have the problem of having to work inside a giant ball with limited access. Unless they're going to open her up, it has to be pretty damn difficult to do work efficiently.
 

MatheusPG

Member
For reference:
This is all either already happening, or just recently been confirmed by Martin

Ratatouille
GotG
New China Film
New Illuminations
Skyliner
Space Restaurant
Japan Restaurant
UK Project
Brazil
SSE Update
Spine + Innoventions Redesign
WoL Project
New Land Film

Anything else? (besides the illusive Imagination project)
Almost everything that you said doesn't affect FW so...
 
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yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
Don't know where you get your facts, but where is it reported by the company (or viable media), that TRON is costing $300M+ to build? I promise you, it isn't.

Eisner has a better batting average than Iger? Huh? According to who? You? By what metric? Good grief, even Eisner wouldn't say that and you can ask him, he responds to Twitter/Instagram messages. Do you even know what Eisner built/approved?

Iger major projects personally approved:
  1. Cars Land / DCA 2.0
  2. Pandora
  3. Two (now 4) new $1B cruise ships
  4. Shanghai DL
  5. Aulani
Pending:
  1. SWGE x2
  2. HK DL Rebuild
  3. DL Studios Paris Rebuild
Are ANY of these duds? Are any of them likely to be? They are extremely high quality/high budget.

Eisner mega duds:
  1. DCA 1.0
  2. DL Studios Paris
  3. HK Disneyland (high quality but completely underperformed, lost money, limited attractions, too small budget, etc.)
  4. Chester/Hester/and various other "off-the-shelf" cheapo "expansions."
Eisner underbuilds:
  1. AK - opened with TWO major attractions because budget wouldn't allow more and Imagineers choose quality over quantity, and he went along.
  2. MGM Studios - opened with TWO rides due to limited budget. Compare that to Shanghai.
Eisner hits:
Yes, a good number during his first 10 years. But hardly enough to call his "batting average" better than Iger.

Don't get me wrong, I worked under Eisner and liked him. He saved the Company, but Iger runs circles around him by every available metric, I believe even HE would admit that.
It hasn't been reported by the company, but it's been reported here by trusted sources and it hasn't gone away yet. I'd love to know what it's costing, if it's less than we've been hearing, because the number has had me puzzled.

I thought I had stated my metric but in reading my post back it wasn't as clear as I'd intended -- my point was that Eisner both spent large sums of money on the parks AND did so in the name of massive creative strides. Bob has certainly made money off of the parks, but his list of creative hits is shorter and less resounding. And of course it looks favorable for Bob when you compare a list of his successes with a list of Eisner's follies.

I'll try to break it down by attraction rather than land or park, just for the sake of 1-to-1 comparison, with a few noted* exceptions, limited to what can somewhat fairly be considered unqualified creative hits:


Eisner:

Splash Mountain
Star Tours
The Great Movie Ride
Disneyland Paris*, where almost every attraction was arguably the best iteration yet produced in its lineage at the time of opening
The Tower of Terror
Space Mountain: De La Terre A La Lune
The Indiana Jones Adventure
The Tree of Life
Kilimanjaro Safari
Pooh's Hunny Hunt
Tokyo Disney Sea*, where point-for-point everything is executed at a higher level than any other-park equivalent - best A-Tickets around
Journey to the Center of the Earth
Soarin' Over California
Expedition Everest
Toy Story Midway Mania


Bob:

Radiator Springs Racers
Mystic Manor
Pirates of the Caribbean (Shanghai)
TRON
Peter Pan's Flight Shanghai (I don't love this version, personally, but it's more ambitious than any of the others, so I'll give it to him)
Flight of Passage
Rise of the Resistance (Presumed Hit)
Millennium Falcon (Presumed Hit)

The above attractions defined the Disney park experience for a generation - and I think Eisner made that happen more frequently and to a higher degree than Bob. Financially Bob is doing great -- but creatively I think Eisner blew him out of the water with what he was able to make happen. And then, of course, the wheels came off. It's a lot to try to unpack in one post so I won't pretend the ground is sufficiently covered, but it should give you a sense of how I'm looking at it, which is that Eisner made a more lasting positive creative impact on the parks than Iger.
 
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tigerlight

Well-Known Member
It hasn't been reported by the company, but it's been reported here by trusted sources and it hasn't gone away yet. I'd love to know what it's costing, if it's less than we've been hearing, because the number has had me puzzled.

I thought I had stated my metric but in reading my post back it wasn't as clear as I'd intended -- my point was that Eisner both spent large sums of money on the parks AND did so in the name of massive creative strides. Bob has certainly made money off of the parks, but his list of creative hits is shorter and less resounding. And of course it looks favorable for Bob when you compare a list of his successes with a list of Eisner's follies.

I'll try to break it down by attraction rather than land or park, just for the sake of 1-to-1 comparison, with a few noted* exceptions, limited to what can somewhat fairly be considered unqualified creative hits:


Eisner:

Splash Mountain
Star Tours
The Great Movie Ride
Disneyland Paris*, where almost every attraction was arguably the best iteration yet produced in its lineage at the time of opening
The Tower of Terror
Space Mountain: De La Terre A La Lune
The Indiana Jones Adventure
The Tree of Life
Kilimanjaro Safari
Pooh's Hunny Hunt
Tokyo Disney Sea*, where point-for-point everything is executed at a higher level than any other-park equivalent - best A-Tickets around
Journey to the Center of the Earth
Soarin' Over California
Expedition Everest
Toy Story Midway Mania


Bob:

Radiator Springs Racers
Mystic Manor
Pirates of the Caribbean (Shanghai)
TRON
Peter Pan's Flight Shanghai (I don't love this version, personally, but it's more ambitious than any of the others, so I'll give it to him)
Flight of Passage
Rise of the Resistance (Presumed Hit)
Millennium Falcon (Presumed Hit)

The above attractions defined the Disney park experience for a generation - and I think Eisner made that happen more frequently and to a higher degree than Bob. Financially Bob is doing great -- but creatively I think Eisner blew him out of the water with what he was able to make happen. And then, of course, the wheels came off. It's a lot to try to unpack in one post so I won't pretend the ground is sufficiently covered, but it should give you a sense of how I'm looking at it, which is that Eisner made a more lasting positive creative impact on the parks than Iger.
We’re not going to agree but let me correct you on some real verifiable facts: Eisner is an honest guy and I know he wouldn’t try to take any credit for anything that occurred in Tokyo.

Those parks and attractions were bought and paid for by Oriental Land Co. None of them were imported because Eisner was too cheap to pay for them. Pressler (his chief lieutenant) ridiculed the Japanese for their willingness to “overspend” and indulge the Imagineers...

It was Iger that green-lit Disney Seas style immersion and depth in the US w/Cars Land, Pandora, and now SWGE.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
We’re not going to agree but let me correct you on some real verifiable facts: Eisner is an honest guy and I know he wouldn’t try to take any credit for anything that occurred in Tokyo.

Those parks and attractions were bought and paid for by Oriental Land Co. None of them were imported because Eisner was too cheap to pay for them. Pressler (his chief lieutenant) ridiculed the Japanese for their willingness to “overspend” and indulge the Imagineers...
That's a good point, and one I hadn't thought of while compiling that list. I was looking at them as having been developed by the Imagineers under his watch, but you're right that they weren't on his dollar.
 

KingOfEpicocity

Well-Known Member
The latter of which will be around for a good time yet I’m glad to say as of something I heard today.

The former we’d hope will be too.
That's what scares me most about films like IDF leaving Epcot. It's not like you can truly ever experience those films again, not like any other film on streaming. So glad to see Disney still has a spot for this masterpiece! (despite the changes it may be getting...)
 

EPICOT

Well-Known Member
Bringing things back to SSE.... If I had to guess, the queue entrance to SSE will be moved closer to the Fountain of Nations side of SSE. They are probably wanting to relieve some of the crowding that occurs at the front of the park sometimes when the queue backs up. This probably happens more often now due to the FP queue taking up some of the space. Just my 2 cents!
 

MickeyMinnieMom

Well-Known Member
I'm really excited about what this refurb will bring, particularly because @marni1971 seems pleased with what is known so far at least. I thought the rumor a while back was that everything from paper boy on would change... now it sounds like the cutoff might be sooner??

My husband will miss this (and still wear this t-shirt!) if it's no longer there... ;)https://www.redbubble.com/people/kellydesignco/works/25503019-thank-the-phoenicians-disneys-spaceship-earth-epcot?p=t-shirt

But more than that, I'm really curious about the "story"... what will they change and how will the emphasis change for the period through what is currently covered in SSE... they obviously have to condense it to add, and I can imagine these days there might be a move toward "internationalizing" it more, for lack of a better word... maybe downplay US contributions (I could be wrong, obviously)... but I wouldn't want to see a rewriting of history... Curious what they'll do there... ...
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
I'm really excited about what this refurb will bring, particularly because @marni1971 seems pleased with what is known so far at least. I thought the rumor a while back was that everything from paper boy on would change... now it sounds like the cutoff might be sooner??

My husband will miss this (and still wear this t-shirt!) if it's no longer there... ;)https://www.redbubble.com/people/kellydesignco/works/25503019-thank-the-phoenicians-disneys-spaceship-earth-epcot?p=t-shirt

But more than that, I'm really curious about the "story"... what will they change and how will the emphasis change for the period through what is currently covered in SSE... they obviously have to condense it to add, and I can imagine these days there might be a move toward "internationalizing" it more, for lack of a better word... maybe downplay US contributions (I could be wrong, obviously)... but I wouldn't want to see a rewriting of history... Curious what they'll do there... ...
I’m expecting each scene to be overhauled. I’m also expecting several scenes to be changed. And a new descent. Story wise I can’t comment at the moment.

I also expect big changes about how or where you get on and get off.

But by the love of god if they shove IP into this attraction.... and I’m not religious.
 

Epcot_Imagineer

Well-Known Member
I’m expecting each scene to be overhauled. I’m also expecting several scenes to be changed. And a new descent. Story wise I can’t comment at the moment.

I also expect big changes about how or where you get on and get off.

But by the love of god if they shove IP into this attraction.... and I’m not religious.
By new descent are we talking an improved starfield (finally) or something radically different?
 
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