Space Mountain Heading to the Scrap Heap :)

[Mstr Gra-c]

You're totally missing the point here. Nobody's trying to directly compare the two coasters. They're different beasts, however what they were showing is that Disney could have attempted to use the best technology available to present the show that is SM while keeping it a family coaster like they used to. They chose not too.

HRRR on the other hand, while not themed at all, and a horrible blight, has definitely done that with their technology. They attempted to raise the bar with what has been done with a coaster. Disney too could have attempted to raise the bar with what could be done with a SM coaster. They chose to not even meet the bar that many other SM's around the globe have already set.

When someone opines that one of the coasters will have a huge impact (both from an attendance standpoint, and also on how the parks are viewed by the general public) and the other will be a complete failure due to the lack of modern advanced mechanics and effects, this is indeed a comparison because it assumes the coasters are of the same caliber...they are not. (Oh and lets not forget...this HRRR conversation is taking place in a forum created to discuss the refurb of Space Mountain.)

Now, I agree that it would be great for SM to receive a bevy of techie upgrades and effects. However, the ride (and certainly not the park as a whole), in my opinion will not necessarily be made better or worse by these upgrades as I appreciate the fact that it is a classic Disney attraction and a wonderful ride already. Does this mean a missed oppurtunity by Disney...NO. The feats of engineering required would be better spent elsewhere.

Also HRRR is a NEW ride. Disney has, FOR 50+ yrs been THE CUTTING EDGE for ride and amusement technology. ESPECIALLY WHEN BUILDING NEW DARK STYLE RIDES...not rollercoasters. Still to this day very few companies are able to challenge for that crown. Universal is one of them. That would be a better comparison and a better use of thread space. The HRRR info should never have been added to the thread in the first place as it has no relevance to the refurb of a 30 yr old classic.

 

[EpcotServo]

Exactly my point.
Even after the refurb, MK's SM will not be the best in the world, much less the best coaster in Florida.
Disney can do, and SM deserves, better.

Bingo. Perfect post.

^ Exactly.

They're completely different, and bringing up Universal is completely relevant. I don't care if one's a food stand and the other is a theatre, the point is...



One is at least TRYING and the other is phoning it in...

:lol: :hammer:

 

[Mstr Gra-c]

Exactly my point.
Even after the refurb, MK's SM will not be the best in the world, much less the best coaster in Florida.
Disney can do, and SM deserves, better.

Why would they try to make a 30 yr old family coaster the best coaster in Florida?
It hasn't been the best coaster in Florida for probably 20 yrs...why make it the best now?
That refurb they did to SM DL a few years back that everyone wishes would come to Orlando...did that make that coaser the best in the world?...how bout the country?...California even?
NO!
This is a ridiculous argument.
That would be a waste of man power and resources.
It would be completely unnecessary to do so.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Exactly my point.
Even after the refurb, MK's SM will not be the best in the world, much less the best coaster in Florida.
Disney can do, and SM deserves, better.

Well...For thrills or the overall effect? It would be pretty hard to make it over the top thrilling while still in the building. I think HRRR or Sheikra have that taken care of with the aspect of sheer size.

 

[Lee]

Disney has, FOR 50+ yrs been THE CUTTING EDGE for ride and amusement technology. ESPECIALLY WHEN BUILDING NEW DARK STYLE RIDES...not rollercoasters.

Not entirely.
Matterhorn. First heavily themed coaster. First tubular steel coaster.
Space Mountain. First computer controlled coaster. First indoor coaster. Etc.
Space Mountain in Paris. First to use an launch. First to have onboard sound.
Everest. First to have multiple track switches to allow forward and backward movement.
(There are more examples, but those will do for now.)
Disney has always tried to push the ride to new areas, even coasters.

The HRRR info should never have been added to the thread in the first place as it has no relevance to the refurb of a 30 yr old classic.

That is opinion, and I disagree.
Space Mountain's refurbishment was originally concieved to be a complete rebuild (relaunch) of the attraction, which would bring it up to date and allow it to be more than just a quaint "classic". The idea was to put Space Mountain back on the top of the heap, let it's iconic status mean something. Lots of high tech, lots of new show.
Then....they got cold feet about the money and down time and reduced it to just a mid-grade refurbishment. Nice, I'm sure, but not going to "wow" anybody.
Uni, on the other hand, decided to build a new thrill ride that would be cutting edge, and push the technology limit. They weren't afraid to go out on a limb, take a risk, spend some money in the name of good show.
Anyhow....just my opinion. I don't like seeing Disney fall behind in any way.

 

[SirGoofy]

Does this mean a missed oppurtunity by Disney...NO.

You better believe it is. They had the opportunity to make this ride something special in a park that hasn't had a new ride in almost 20 years.

Why would they try to make a 30 yr old family coaster the best coaster in Florida?
It hasn't been the best coaster in Florida for probably 20 yrs...why make it the best now?

Because they can. And they could have. Unfortunately, they went with the cheap plans.

Well...For thrills or the overall effect? It would be pretty hard to make it over the top thrilling while still in the building. I think HRRR or Sheikra have that taken care of with the aspect of sheer size.

Overall effect.

 

[Lee]

Why would they try to make a 30 yr old family coaster the best coaster in Florida? It hasn't been the best coaster in Florida for probably 20 yrs...why make it the best now?

Because they can. "Best" is hard to quantify, but I would at least like to see some effort made to make SM live up to it's reputation and status.

That refurb they did to SM DL a few years back that everyone wishes would come to Orlando...did that make that coaser the best in the world?...how bout the country?...California even?
NO!

It made it the best family coaster in California I would wager.
It took the SM concept and elevated it out of the 70s and into the new century. That was what it needed, and what it got.
MK's SM is going from the 70's to the...ummm...maybe 90's.

This is a ridiculous argument.

True. Arguing opinion is pointless.

That would be a waste of man power and resources.
It would be completely unnecessary to do so.

No. Better show is never a waste of man power or resources.
Show trumps Efficiency.

You better believe it is. They had the opportunity to make this ride something special in a park that hasn't had a new ride in almost 20 years.

Bingo!

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

You better believe it is. They had the opportunity to make this ride something special in a park that hasn't had a new ride in almost 20 years.



Because they can. And they could have. Unfortunately, they went with the cheap plans.



Overall effect.

OK, that makes more sense...And it would have been so easy, too.

 

[EpcotServo]

Exactly my point.
Even after the refurb, MK's SM will not be the best in the world, much less the best coaster in Florida.
Disney can do, and SM deserves, better.

And NONE of us are asking for a 200ft. Vertical Lift...JUST onboard audio and new trains...
:hammer:

 

[Monorail_Orange]

I think y'all are both right. SM is a quaint classic - clean it up, brace it up, whatever it takes for it to be a safe, reliable attraction - but leave it alone and intact. Then TDO should turn around and figure out what new, big, technological masterpiece e-ticket they can put up on any of the areas inside MK's berm that are currently way underutilized - i.e. Tomorrowland/Fantasyland Skyway structures, PPP.

To me, MK is in desperate need of additional attractions first and foremost. Stop tearing out the classics - like they did with Toad, AE, Timekeeper, to name a few, and develop open space.

And leave my quaint, original SM experience intact (only track patterns - not talking about on board audio here - we should have gotten/are getting that now). To me, gutting our SM and rebuilding from scratch is akin to gutting the Matterhorn and starting from scratch - bad idea!

 

[Lee]

To me, gutting our SM and rebuildign from scratch is akin to gutting the Matterhorn and starting from scratch - bad idea!

But...It was a good idea to give Matterhorn new cars, replace all of it's track and much of the rockwork, replace the empty interior with ice caves and Yetis.....
All of which they did.
A SM upgrade on that level would be kinda nice.

 

[Monorail_Orange]

But...It was a good idea to give Matterhorn new cars, replace all of it's track and much of the rockwork, replace the empty interior with ice caves and Yetis.....
All of which they did.
A SM upgrade on that level would be kinda nice.

Agree 110%

 

[hack2112]

Well...For thrills or the overall effect? It would be pretty hard to make it over the top thrilling while still in the building. I think HRRR or Sheikra have that taken care of with the aspect of sheer size.

For me, thrills will have to go to Manta right now, but HRRR sure looks like it can change that. Just looking at the loop makes my g-force shift.

 

[Mstr Gra-c]

I think y'all are both right. SM is a quaint classic - clean it up, brace it up, whatever it takes for it to be a safe, reliable attraction - but leave it alone and intact. Then TDO should turn around and figure out what new, big, technological masterpiece e-ticket they can put up on any of the areas inside MK's berm that are currently way underutilized - i.e. Tomorrowland/Fantasyland Skyway structures, PPP.

To me, MK is in desperate need of additional attractions first and foremost. Stop tearing out the classics - like they did with Toad, AE, Timekeeper, to name a few, and develop open space.

And leave my quaint, original SM experience intact (only track patterns - not talking about on board audio here - we should have gotten/are getting that now). To me, gutting our SM and rebuilding from scratch is akin to gutting the Matterhorn and starting from scratch - bad idea!

I agree. If Disney ever decides to build more REAL Rollercoasters...not a family coaster like: Matterhorn, SM etc... Then we can see how Disney matches up.
If we look at the current large coaster lineup (EE and RRC)...we see two very quality coasters...with state of the art design and features, so the Doom and Gloom and naysaying...well...I just don't understand.

 

[Figment632]

I agree. If Disney ever decides to build more REAL Rollercoasters...not a family coaster like: Matterhorn, SM etc... Then we can see how Disney matches up.
If we look at the current large coaster lineup (EE and RRC)...we see two very quality coasters...with state of the art design and features, so the Doom and Gloom and naysaying...well...I just don't understand.

I think saying the matterhorn is not a real coaster is very stupid, seeing that it was the 1st coaster to use round steel bar instaed of wood. It paved the way for all the crappy Six Flags types coasters that you are probaly talking about.

 

[SirGoofy]

I think saying the matterhorn is not a real coaster is very stupid, seeing that it was the 1st coaster to use round steel bar instaed of wood. It paved the way for all the crappy Six Flags types coasters that you are probaly talking about.

And what makes them crappy? Six Flags has some of the best coasters in the world.

I hate fanboys.:brick:

 

[Figment632]

And what makes them crappy? Six Flags has some of the best coasters in the world.

I hate fanboys.:brick:

Ok i probaly throw SF under the buss to much becuase I got stuck with a bad park in Great Adventure. All they have in that park are coasters and spinning rides and 90% of the coasters have no theme.

 

[SirGoofy]

Ok i probaly throw SF under the buss to much becuase I got stuck with a bad park in Great Adventure. All they have in that park are coasters and spinning rides and 90% of the coasters have no theme.

Okay I'm going completely off topic, but I don't care:

Are you serious?

Six Flags Great Adventure is one of the best coaster parks in the country. Just because a coaster doesn't have a theme it's "crappy"? Honestly I have no idea where you are coming from. Six Flags is not Disney. In no way shape or form are they trying to be Disney. They are amusement parks with awesome coasters.

 

[mcjaco]

Okay I'm going completely off topic, but I don't care:

Are you serious?

Six Flags Great Adventure is one of the best coaster parks in the country. Just because a coaster doesn't have a theme it's "crappy"? Honestly I have no idea where you are coming from. Six Flags is not Disney. In no way shape or form are they trying to be Disney. They are amusement parks with awesome coasters.

:sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy:

EL TORO!!!!!!!

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

And NONE of us are asking for a 200ft. Vertical Lift...JUST onboard audio and new trains...
:hammer:

:shrug: Laser Cannon? Yes!:lol: