Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom: Imagineering a new video game (open brainstorming)

[mharrington]

This is an idea I've had for a while, even before the Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom interactive game was shut down.

"Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom" is revived as a video game in the style of Kingdom Hearts and also joining the ranks of games set at the Disney parks (like "Adventures In the Magic Kingdom" for the NES, "Mickey's Great Adventure In Tokyo Disneyland" for the SNES (Japan only) or "WDW Magical Racing Adventure"). Story-wise, it functions similarly to the original game: Merlin recruiting others to help battle various Disney villains, led by Hades, who is out to take over the Magic Kingdom as a new summer getaway, as the Underworld has become quite boring for him.

However, there are some major differences. For one thing, it will not just be the Florida Magic Kingdom, but rather more of a conglomeration of all the castle parks, something like that Magic Kingdom mobile game, where you can make your own castle park. Secondly, it is revealed that Merlin is in fact a good friend and partner of Yen Sid, under whom not just Mickey Mouse, but Donald Duck and Goofy, too, serve as apprentices. When he learns of the danger from the villains, Yen Sid sends in the classic trio to stop the threat, after which the game then breaks off into three separate pathways, one each for Mickey, Donald and Goofy, who each go to all the same levels, but in different orders. It's like "Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep", where you similarly play as three separate characters at three separate points in time. It can also be like "Sonic Adventure", where you control SIX characters. The final difference between the real game and the video game is the cards... or lack thereof, in the video game. Instead, Mickey, Donald and Goofy are given regular spell symbols that, similar to the summonable characters in the KH games, allows them to summon Disney characters (who have been entrapped by the villains) to help them fight. As they go through, they can pick up more symbols that will help them further.

What do you think? Let's discuss.

 

[Twilight_Roxas]

It could work well as a iOS/android app game even on the Switch.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

I'd love it were like Universal Studios Adventure for Game Cube. The game itself completely sucked, but the premise was really good.

You got to play through attractions at their parks like Back to the Future, Jaws, Jurassic Park, E.T. Adventure, etc. With Disney you could play through Peter Pan, It's a Small World, Haunted Mansion, Pirates and more.

 

[Twilight_Roxas]

I'd love it were like Universal Studios Adventure for Game Cube. The game itself completely sucked, but the premise was really good.

You got to play through attractions at their parks like Back to the Future, Jaws, Jurassic Park, E.T. Adventure, etc. With Disney you could play through Peter Pan, It's a Small World, Haunted Mansion, Pirates and more.

Um about that.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

Um about that.
View attachment 584150

Oh yeahhhh I forgot about that game.

I've never actually played it. Is it just like Universal's Crappy Adventure? If so then there's a 99.9999% chance it's a better version of the concept.

 

[ArmoredRodent]

One issue with the "send in the Big 3, one at a time," approach is that it wouldn't be like SotMK's original approach. Part of the appeal of the game was to combine the trading card aspect with the ability to choose how your champions would be chosen and used. First you had to build your deck (or buy it), then scale up in power to use them correctly, put on your T-shirt to maximize your power, and then figure out how to quickly deploy your chosen strategy and team. It had many variations available, some of which were more or less powerful depending on external factors (like wearing your shirt) and internal factors, like how many times you had used a given toon and so on.

In other words, instead of Sonic's six characters, you might have had 72 to choose from. And you had to make your choice very quickly. That wasn't all that hard at the two lower levels, since you could figure out the patterns over time, but was harder at max. Using the private mods or purchased apps to help with selections and mods made life much easier if you were a serious player.

Given the advances in game technology since 2013, it should be very easy to replicate the actual SotMK gameplay virtually, without relying on the video cameras. And then add the VR aspect, as used in PhotoPass, for example, or augmented reality, and playing in the parks could expand the possibilities even further. Closest I can think of would be BattleTech 2032 (never formally released by EA because of copyright issues with Microsoft), or some mechwarrior variation of that era updated beyond the current Mechwarriors Online: potentially dozens of toons in your stable, each customizable for each mission, with the final challenge being the actual game play, solo or in teams of variable size. Would be magnificent!

 

[Twilight_Roxas]

It should have a combine section that let’s you fuse two cards for a powerful card.

 

[mharrington]

One issue with the "send in the Big 3, one at a time," approach is that it wouldn't be like SotMK's original approach. Part of the appeal of the game was to combine the trading card aspect with the ability to choose how your champions would be chosen and used. First you had to build your deck (or buy it), then scale up in power to use them correctly, put on your T-shirt to maximize your power, and then figure out how to quickly deploy your chosen strategy and team. It had many variations available, some of which were more or less powerful depending on external factors (like wearing your shirt) and internal factors, like how many times you had used a given toon and so on.

In other words, instead of Sonic's six characters, you might have had 72 to choose from. And you had to make your choice very quickly. That wasn't all that hard at the two lower levels, since you could figure out the patterns over time, but was harder at max. Using the private mods or purchased apps to help with selections and mods made life much easier if you were a serious player.

Given the advances in game technology since 2013, it should be very easy to replicate the actual SotMK gameplay virtually, without relying on the video cameras. And then add the VR aspect, as used in PhotoPass, for example, or augmented reality, and playing in the parks could expand the possibilities even further. Closest I can think of would be BattleTech 2032 (never formally released by EA because of copyright issues with Microsoft), or some mechwarrior variation of that era updated beyond the current Mechwarriors Online: potentially dozens of toons in your stable, each customizable for each mission, with the final challenge being the actual game play, solo or in teams of variable size. Would be magnificent!

Here's the thing: the only thing I know about the game is that you battle villains with special cards, which have different Disney characters on them, all of whom have special powers. I am far more familiar with Kingdom Hearts than I am with "Sorcerers", and rumor has it that future KH titles may not have anything to do with Disney at all, and I find that rather disappointing that there is nothing in that regard to take its place. I really wanted to create a game idea where you could play not just as Mickey, but also as Donald or Goofy, if you choose. Even though I never actually played it, I was pretty bummed when the "Epic Mickey" series was cut short. That's what this whole thing boils down to: a game in the tradition of Kingdom Hearts, but playing as Mickey, Donald and/or Goofy. The myriad characters who can aid you would also be similar to "Epic Mickey: Power of Illusion", which allows you to rescue several characters who are being imprisoned. I want something comparable to that, and I thought of doing something like "Sorcerers", but I don't know all that much about it.

 

[Twilight_Roxas]

What about a combination menu that lets you combine two cards into one powerful card? Like for example fusing a Mickey Mouse with a sorcerer hat card creates the Sorcerer’s Apprentice card.

 

[Miru]

What about a combination menu that lets you combine two cards into one powerful card? Like for example fusing a Mickey Mouse with a sorcerer hat card creates the Sorcerer’s Apprentice card.

Nice idea! I feel like an expanded card roster is a must; but would Marvel and Lucasfilm stuff end up as DLC? If there are indeed Marvel cards, maybe they could take a lot from the MVC games for their moves?

 

[mharrington]

Nice idea! I feel like an expanded card roster is a must; but would Marvel and Lucasfilm stuff end up as DLC? If there are indeed Marvel cards, maybe they could take a lot from the MVC games for their moves?

I would rather keep it limited to Disney and maybe Pixar.

 

[ArmoredRodent]

What about a combination menu that lets you combine two cards into one powerful card? Like for example fusing a Mickey Mouse with a sorcerer hat card creates the Sorcerer’s Apprentice card.

Actually there was a Sorcerer Mickey card, labeled "Apprentice Mickey's Broomsticks" that looked just like that, and, appropriately, it was Star card number 01, had the base weapon of broomsticks, mystic spells and charming action. It was basically an medium-level attack card, but with a power of only 4, a boost of 1 and a shield of 1. The legend on the card said: "Without the touch of human hands, They're marching to their own commands." You can see all the cards if you google sorcerers of the magic kingdom cards and look for the table on a**ears.net.

the only thing I know about the game is that you battle villains with special cards, which have different Disney characters on them, all of whom have special powers.

And just google the game and check the very clear and straightforward description on https://allears.net/magic-kingdom/sorcerers-of-the-magic-kingdom-magic-kingdom/

 

[mharrington]

And just google the game and check the very clear and straightforward description on https://allears.net/magic-kingdom/sorcerers-of-the-magic-kingdom-magic-kingdom/

So a video game version would not really be able to do justice to this game?

 

[ArmoredRodent]

Actually, it probably could, but it would have to be a complex design, and would take a top studio and a lot of money to make (not even considering what TWDC would charge for the rights). In fact, it likely would be better than the older MK version, since a newer program could consider the specific weighting of each toon and player-made modifications, instead of being limited to just combinations of static cards. Even better, the combat animations ought to be far more sophisticated than the older versions, just as other video games have improved. So, you're on the right track, but just have to think bigger than the original plan. Which is pretty much how most top games evolve from original concept to final implementation.

 

[mharrington]

Actually, it probably could, but it would have to be a complex design, and would take a top studio and a lot of money to make (not even considering what TWDC would charge for the rights). In fact, it likely would be better than the older MK version, since a newer program could consider the specific weighting of each toon and player-made modifications, instead of being limited to just combinations of static cards. Even better, the combat animations ought to be far more sophisticated than the older versions, just as other video games have improved. So, you're on the right track, but just have to think bigger than the original plan. Which is pretty much how most top games evolve from original concept to final implementation.

Like I said, I don't know anything about the game outside of the basic premise of battling the villains with cards. How could the original plan be improved upon?

One reason why I thought of a video game comes from a post at Passport 2 Dreams, which did a list of the top ten design blunders at the Magic Kingdom, with Sorcerers ranking at #6. One of the objections was that the game actually distracted from the overall experience, in more ways than one:

Disney really has been struggling with bringing interactive media into its theme parks. While the panic began way back in the 80s with the ascendancy of Nintendo into daily life, the latest generation of kids who grew up clutching smartphones replete with cheap, addictive games like Angry Birds sent Disney into an all-out panic tailspin in the late 00s, and instead of pushing forward immediately with park improvements that could encourage kids to look up from their smart phones, they responded by launching competing cheap distractions of their own.

Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom is a great idea. The notion of discovering secret, out of the way pockets of Magic Kingdom and battling monsters there is a great one. But instead of carving out new quiet areas and encouraging real exploration, Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom drop its game portals thoughtlessly into any existing area it could find. Portals are often just steps away from major pedestrian paths, usually hidden in such a way that isn't really hidden at all.

But really the biggest problem with Sorcerers is that it's a lousy game. Since the 80s, various companies have tied to compete with traditional controller-driven game play under the notion that the controller is an artificial imposition and that a superior game would somehow dispense with the buttons. Since the 80s, these experiments have always been a failure, and the reason is because a game pad is nothing but the most convenient way to make a game easy enough to play to allow the player to focus on the truly compelling elements of gaming: rhythm, timing, and strategy. You can't focus on perfecting the rhythm of sword blows if you have to swing a big heavy sword.

Simultaneously a similarly misguided idea was born that, since the best video games are often cinematic, one way to improve games would be to make them like interactive movies. This line of thinking led to the infamous Full-Motion Video games or FMV, which combine the thrill of watching a low budget movie with occasional button pressing. This type of game is even less immersive than even the crudest video games. Sorcerers combines both of these bad ideas into a phenomenally dull game.

The actual game play involves holding up (nifty) collectible cards pointed at a screen, except instead of watching something enjoyably trashy like a Troma film (as in the case of many of the better FMV games), you're watching a straight-to-DVD Disney sequel. The main way to improve your game play is to collect better cards, which can be traded or, of course, bought. There's no skill involved in actually playing the game outside of building a deck of powerful cards. This may seem to be superficially similar to playing card games like Magic or Yu-Gui-Oh, except in those cases you're strategizing against a person who has cards you don't know about. Sorcerers is no more complex or satisfying than assembling a burn deck. I had a burn deck when I was a kid and after using it three or four times I realized I wasn't actually playing the game even if I won. I had the same sinking realization the first time I set out to play this game.

But really the most regrettable thing about the game is the damage it does to the environment of the theme park. If you had to walk down obscure side paths that led only to a Sorcerers game portal or through a network of themed rooms that would be one thing, but none of the game play stations are at all hidden. This means that simply by walking around the theme park you're constantly seeing poorly animated Disney villains on televisions poking out of windows, and hearing things like explosion sound effects. In an environment as carefully crafted and thoroughly controlled as Magic Kingdom, that's not just out of place, it's downright disrespectful.

Anyway, how could a video game version improve on the original version? In addition to Kingdom Hearts, I'm also getting some Pokemon vibes, even though I've never played that game series before either, nor do I really care for it.

 

[Miru]

I would rather keep it limited to Disney and maybe Pixar.

Infinity saved Marvel and Lucasfilm for the sequel, for example. Further ends of the Disney family only got small references like the ESPN Ball item. I feel like cards could also be made more complex; originally, all cards had three stats of the same element type, but now we can make each elemental type different for each stat, allowing for more complex and varied strategies. Perhaps “Hekapoo’s Flaming Scissors” would be a Mystic Spell with Boost Attack 4, Charming Dodge 3, and Gross Shield 1? Some cards could also impact other cards when played, akin to Yu Gi Oh’s archetypes. Animations for cards could be added as well. Perhaps some challenges would be based more on quick reactions than was possible in the physical game? Phone-to-park connectivity would be another boon.

 

[ArmoredRodent]

An interesting perspective, but not the only one. The SotMK game was designed to be social. For example, some of the SotMK portals were in out-of-the-way locations, like a side alley on Main Street, or a restaurant in Adventureland. But, as the author says, most were out in the middle of heavily-trafficked areas in Fantasyland or Frontierland. But that wasn't a bug, it was a feature. Part of the fun in SotMK (once you got beyond beginner level) was that lots of people would watch you play (sort of like an early version of Twitch), and you could get them into the game. As you moved higher into the game, you would accumulate a ton of cards, most of them duplicating ones you already had in your game deck. So what would you do with those? Give them away! Helping others get started also meant you had the fun of watching them play as a beginner (which was really easy). It wasn't just kids, either; I used to give half-decks to adults who were used to other card games. And there were organized meet-ups almost every week; one of the regular big ones was in the back room of Tortuga Tavern, by the game portal hidden in the fireplace (blocking the route to the restrooms ).
And it sounds like the author of that critique didn't play the game enough to get to the higher levels ("I had the same sinking realization the first time I set out to play this game"). The easy level was easy, so people could get into the game quickly. Actually, the secret to the game was not "collecting better cards", although that was important at the beginner level. At higher levels, it was in arranging your cards in ways that allowed you to play the "right" cards very quickly. Especially at Max level, where the villains randomly changed strengths and weaknesses, so you couldn't just memorize the "better" combinations; you had to react on the fly. Which is what the author said was missing from the game, and it was, at the lower levels only. At Max level, organization was critical, so you could figure out what was happening on the screen, decide which cards to play, and arrange them so you could hold up the right three cards in combination in front of the camera/readers (which were always finicky). So, there was some skill required, not just hold up powerful cards, because if you didn't figure out which defenses the villains had, your effective power was a lot lower than you thought, and it might take three rounds of gameplay at each battle to defeat a particular villain.

 

[mharrington]

An interesting perspective, but not the only one. The SotMK game was designed to be social. For example, some of the SotMK portals were in out-of-the-way locations, like a side alley on Main Street, or a restaurant in Adventureland. But, as the author says, most were out in the middle of heavily-trafficked areas in Fantasyland or Frontierland. But that wasn't a bug, it was a feature. Part of the fun in SotMK (once you got beyond beginner level) was that lots of people would watch you play (sort of like an early version of Twitch), and you could get them into the game. As you moved higher into the game, you would accumulate a ton of cards, most of them duplicating ones you already had in your game deck. So what would you do with those? Give them away! Helping others get started also meant you had the fun of watching them play as a beginner (which was really easy). It wasn't just kids, either; I used to give half-decks to adults who were used to other card games. And there were organized meet-ups almost every week; one of the regular big ones was in the back room of Tortuga Tavern, by the game portal hidden in the fireplace (blocking the route to the restrooms ).
And it sounds like the author of that critique didn't play the game enough to get to the higher levels ("I had the same sinking realization the first time I set out to play this game"). The easy level was easy, so people could get into the game quickly. Actually, the secret to the game was not "collecting better cards", although that was important at the beginner level. At higher levels, it was in arranging your cards in ways that allowed you to play the "right" cards very quickly. Especially at Max level, where the villains randomly changed strengths and weaknesses, so you couldn't just memorize the "better" combinations; you had to react on the fly. Which is what the author said was missing from the game, and it was, at the lower levels only. At Max level, organization was critical, so you could figure out what was happening on the screen, decide which cards to play, and arrange them so you could hold up the right three cards in combination in front of the camera/readers (which were always finicky). So, there was some skill required, not just hold up powerful cards, because if you didn't figure out which defenses the villains had, your effective power was a lot lower than you thought, and it might take three rounds of gameplay at each battle to defeat a particular villain.

Is there a way then to do this game without cards, but just using the attacks on the cards?

 

[ArmoredRodent]

Sure. Probably like Final Fantasy, but with a bigger set of options. Likely turn-based, rather than real-time, though I could also see an RT version. That's why I suggested the MechWarrior-type of game in my first response to you. A video game offers the ability to make the toon into a more lifelike "person," who can change over time, where the card was always the same and the choices were how to use it in combination.

 

[mharrington]

Sure. Probably like Final Fantasy, but with a bigger set of options. Likely turn-based, rather than real-time, though I could also see an RT version. That's why I suggested the MechWarrior-type of game in my first response to you. A video game offers the ability to make the toon into a more lifelike "person," who can change over time, where the card was always the same and the choices were how to use it in combination.

But Final Fantasy led to Kingdom Hearts. Also, I don't know what a Mech Warrior is.