Song of the South Article

[Wilt Dasney]

sbkline: I agree with you about the example of SotS, but I think you're casting your net too wide if you conclude that no one on the left side of the spectrum is fair game for public stereotyping/ridicule. Watch an episode of South Park or Will and Grace if you don't think so. Liberals get the mickey taken out of them a good bit in this country.

 

[darthjohnny]

It's funny how people complain about Song of the South, but no one really objects to Splash Mountain in the theme parks.

I wonder if one day, Song of the South will be rereleased recut and edited to just show the story of Brer Rabbit, or even remake the cartoon with computer animation, or something like that. :shrug:

 

[sbkline]

sbkline: I agree with you about the example of SotS, but I think you're casting your net too wide if you conclude that no one on the left side of the spectrum is fair game for public stereotyping/ridicule. Watch an episode of South Park or Will and Grace if you don't think so. Liberals get the mickey taken out of them a good bit in this country.

Yes, that's true. There are shows such as the ones you mentioned which make fun of those on both sides of the POLITICAL spectrum, but my point is that when it comes to stereotyping a race or culture, the only ones who are fair game are those of white cultures, males or Christians. Again, look at the example of those Mickey Mouse cartoons. They can have the scottish stereotype and for some reason, there is no need to have that guy speak before the cartoon about stereotypes in the 1940's. Yet, if you have the exact same thing with an Indian or a black guy or some other minority culture, that guy is right there before the cartoon plays to tell us all about it.

It's okay to have a character like Archie Bunker who caricatures and stereotypes White, conservative Republican Christian males, but if there is a 5 second spot in a movie with a black guy speaking in a Southern black dialect, people throw a fit.

Like I said, I don't consider little things like caricatures and stereotypes to be harmful or "racist". But what really honks me off is how so many cartoons and movies are edited or pulled altogether because of that, yet it is perfectly fine to see men stereotyped, or whites, or Christians or any combination of the above.

 

[Ragetti]

Not that I think stereotyping is OK (after all, the miserly Scrooge McDuck is TERRIBLE sterotype of Scottish "thriftyness"), but the simple fact is that minorities that have a history of oppression are gonna be more sensitve to negative sterotyping. The cultural reasons for that are deep.

But let me reiterate that I think racial sterotyping of any type is ummm... inappropriate.

However, I don't rail against it. I vote with my dollars.

 

[barnum42]

:lol: I should have been more clear. It's not that I feel the film accurately represents history, it's that I feel it IS history. It's part of the conversation about race that was happening in the 40's and 50's. Even if it is offensive (and i could see how some would be offended by it), it is a snapshot. It's isn;t a contemporary work, it is an historical one. To ignore it, or worse, suppress it, would be a terrible whitewash of our history. And it does have some great stories in it.

After all, if I was a Native American, I wouldn't be thrilled about how my people are represented in Peter Pan, which is being re-released Tuesday. But that depiction is only one aspect of a wonderful film.

No worries - I did not take it that you took it to be a representation of history :wave: Nice thoughts about it being history.

 

[barnum42]

If we watch a modern TV show today and there is a charcter from England, is it "racist" or stereotyping for that character to be depicted with an English accent, speaking the slang of his country? Heavens no. It's just a depiction of how people from England speak.

English accents like Kevin Costner's in Robin Hood? "Yonder lies de casshull of mai faaader in Noddin'am" :lol:

Apparently, to do a caricature or stereotype of a white European people is somehow acceptable, whereas if the same is done of any other demographic, people scream bloody murder and you can't air the cartoon without having some clown get on there before the cartoon plays lecturing of the evils of stereotyping.

There was a radio and TV show called "Goodness Gracious Me", that was written by and starred a group of British Indian comics. It was a bit hit and miss, I suspect as I'm not Indian and so missed some esoteric references, but when it hit it was very funny. They would poke fun big time at white Britons in a way that were it the other way round and white Britons made similar jibes at Indians would have caused melt down on the phone network by people complaining out of reflex action.

We also have to deal with having Xmas decorations banned or people not being allowed to fly a George Cross for fear of offending some one legged black lesbian single mother illegal immigrant

 

[WDWFigment]

Do a search query for "Song of South dvd" on ebay and look at the completed items...there is no way all of those are real (this isn't speculation, different auctions have different cases) and the prices are ludicrous. If you're concerned about giving your CC#, get a one-time use number from your company.

 

[slappy magoo]

When it comes to bootlegs, I am at odds, because I do believe that copyrights should be respected, and I don't want to rip people off of monies owed them for their artistic or intellectual property.

Now, to be a total hypocrite, I'll admit that I own some movies that were never released on video, or currently aren't available on video. It's a line I draw for myself. I won't boot or buy a boot of The Incredibles, even if it's a clone of the DVD, with indentical AV quality and extras. It's readily available and I'd consider myself a major tool to buy a boot of something I can rent or buy in any store. Likewise, I won't buy boots of movies currently in theaters, recorded by someone who sneaked a camcorder into a theater.

But a movie or TV show I always enjoyed or have been curious about, that possibly will never be released on video? Might not ever see the light of day on TV again? Yeah, I'll buy those, and if/when they DO get a legit release, I buy the legit release and toss my other one.

I'm actually of the opinion that studios will gauge the popularity of a show or movie on bootleg DVD to determine whether or not there's a market for an official release. I firmly believe shows as disparate as My So-Called Life and The Adventures of Brisco County Junior and American Gothic, none of 'em big hits when they were new, got such nice box set releases because there was such a market for copies. I think that's a big reason why Rhino keeps obtaining the rights to movies lampooned on Mystery Science Theater 3000. Studios pony up the dough to obtain the music rights to a movie like Heavy Metal because they see how many pirate DVDs sell.

Meanwhile, you might never see stuff like the original Roger-Corman produced Fantastic Four movie, or The fabled Star Wars Holiday Special, or Sam Raimi's short films, unless they're on a boot.

I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to steer anyone to a specific vendor or dealer of stuff like this. However, if there's ever a "nerd fest" in your area-a sci-fi/fantasy/horror movie convention where you can get autographs of people like Lou Ferrigno & Linda Blair-you should check 'em out. They tend to be more "retro" conventions than anything else, it's just that the stuff people liked when they were kids tend to be sci fi and fantasy and horror. Usually, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone selling copies of Song of the South, as well as other Disney-related retro swag. They'll play the discs before you buy 'em so you can test their AV quality (or just insure that there's SOMETHING on the DVD). And the conventions are usually all weekend long, so they know someone they rip off on Friday might be back to kick their a** on Sunday. You might pay more to get what you want than you would off of ebay, but you walk out knowing you got what you wanted, AND maybe Lou Ferrigno's autograph!

 

[sbkline]

Meanwhile, you might never see stuff like the original Roger-Corman produced Fantastic Four movie, or The fabled Star Wars Holiday Special, or Sam Raimi's short films, unless they're on a boot.

I'm a Star Wars fan as well as a Disney fan and, just for the sake of curiosity, as well as to be able to consider myself a "real" fan, I went online and purchased a copy of the Star Wars Holiday Special from someone who taped it off TV the one and only time it aired...

...trust me when I say y'all ain't missin' much if you never see that thing. I can most definitely see why Lucas ordered it locked away never to be seen again. It was about all I could do just to force myself to watch it all the way through. :lookaroun

 

[barnum42]

Meanwhile, you might never see stuff like the original Roger-Corman produced Fantastic Four movie, or The fabled Star Wars Holiday Special, or Sam Raimi's short films, unless they're on a boot.

Unless you find them to download for free. Whilst still technically copyright infringement, nobody is making money out of it and as the studios are not giving you an option to get it from them then it's less bad than giving your money to someone ripping you off.

And sbkline is right - you are not missing anything having not seen the Star Wars Holiday Special. I've not been able to watch it all the way through, it's that bad.

And I'm a big Star Wars fan.

 

[slappy magoo]

Unless you find them to download for free. Whilst still technically copyright infringement, nobody is making money out of it and as the studios are not giving you an option to get it from them then it's less bad than giving your money to someone ripping you off.

Ah, you crazy kids, with your YouTubes and your tiny low-res screens and your plea bargains...feh! Me? Give me a DVD of a nth-generation mono video tape claiming to be 16:9 and Dolby Digital and I am the happiest of campers.

Sure, download it for free. Then you'll never get to go to a nerd-fest and get your picture taken with Otto from Beetlejuice! Who has the last laugh now? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[sbkline]

I can't remember if this has already been mentioned or not, but has SoTS ever been released on video in the US? I know I remember seeing that it was released in theaters in 1986, but is there any way I would be able to find a legitimate copy on VHS floating around somewhere at a pawn shop or antique shop? Or is it only available from its releases in Europe and pirated copies?

 

[Hakunamatata]

Or is it only available from its releases in Europe and pirated copies?

Thats the only way I know to get it.

 

[sbkline]

I was just talking to a coworker at the office yesterday about this pathetic PC drivel which keeps this and other shows from airing on TV or being released on DVD. I mentioned Song of the South and she said she thinks she has that on VHS from when she taped it off TV years ago. So I'm gonna have to make her my new best friend and see if she'd be willing to either loan it to me or part with it altogether. :ROFLOL:

 

[barnum42]

I can't remember if this has already been mentioned or not, but has SoTS ever been released on video in the US? I know I remember seeing that it was released in theaters in 1986, but is there any way I would be able to find a legitimate copy on VHS floating around somewhere at a pawn shop or antique shop? Or is it only available from its releases in Europe and pirated copies?

Plenty of VHS PAL copies on ebay.co.uk. I know the VCRs here will play American tapes, so you may find the reverse is true, depending on your VCR / TV combination.

 

[hammysammy59]

While I'm certainly not PC, I can definitely understand Disney's hesitation to release Song of the South in the states, which is kind of lame considering they sell it in other markets.

It's also a shame Disney doesn't release this, because i just watched the animated bits on YouTube, and it's gorgeous. Really funny, great animation, fun songs, great characters, and Uncle Remus' interactions with the animated environments and characters is phenomenal. But on the other hand, Uncle Remus' subservient relationship to the two rich white kids creeped me out a little. Not as bad as Sunflower in Fantasia, but still SLIGHTLY cringeworthy.

I don't know, I feel like if "What Makes the Red Man Red?" in Peter Pan is okay, Disney should be able to get away with Song of the South. This one's a tough call in my book... I really can see both sides to this argument. It's like the episode of South Park where they realize their city flag is ridiculously offensive: "Well, I don't want to change history, but it IS racist." "It is racist, but we can't change history." etc.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

I think this is an easy problem to solve. All Disney needs to do is go back and add some character to all the Uncle Remus scenes who goes on about how terrible it is that UR lives in such an unenlightened world.

My suggestion is a bullfrog with a monacle named Progressive Pete.

 

[sbkline]

I think this is an easy problem to solve. All Disney needs to do is go back and add some character to all the Uncle Remus scenes who goes on about how terrible it is that UR lives in such an unenlightened world.

My suggestion is a bullfrog with a monacle named Progressive Pete.

I wouldn't want to change the actual movie any. But they could always have some guy come on before the movie and explain it in its context, like they do in those Disney Treasures DVD's of the Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, etc cartoons.

Of course, myself, I think it's pretty pathetic that we have become so PC and overly sensitive that we have to have some guy to explain the context of a freakin' cartoon to us, but that's better than not being able to see it at all.:lookaroun

 

[sbkline]

But on the other hand, Uncle Remus' subservient relationship to the two rich white kids creeped me out a little. Not as bad as Sunflower in Fantasia, but still SLIGHTLY cringeworthy.

I think that's probably an accurate portrayal of that period of history, though. Even after slavery was abolished, the blacks still remained second class citizens. So, in the time period that the movie was based in, it would probably be accurate to depict a black man as being subservient to white people.

I don't know, I feel like if "What Makes the Red Man Red?" in Peter Pan is okay, Disney should be able to get away with Song of the South.

Call me unenlightened, call me insensitive, but I see nothing wrong with that line in the Peter Pan movie. To me, it's no more offensive than the old Peter Sellars "Pink Panther" movies where Clousea had the Chinese butler named Cato and he sometimes referred to him as "my little yellow friend". I found it very funny, but not at all offensive. But I see your point...if that is okay, then SOtS should be as well.