-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Something is wrong, and I wish it was better
- Thread starter Legalos
- Start date
Orange Bird
Member
Well observed, Legalos.
The managers of today's Epcot (both Operations and Imagineering) have no interest in accomplishing EPCOT Center's original mission. Unfortunately, this has been the case for over a dozen years. Anyone within the company who has suggested that Epcot should inspire or enrich the guests, have been quietly demoted, fired, laid-off or just transfered away from Epcot. Some were even promoted (kicked upstairs) to get them away from Epcot. The dominate mentality within TWDC is that when Epcot tries to enrich the public it is viewed as boring, and no one can seem to change their minds. The managers of Epcot have no desire to inspire anyone, they only want to make money (they say for the shareholders, but that really means for themselves). The values of Epcot today reflect the values of the Walt Disney Compnay today, and those values reflect the values of Wall Street.
The managers of today's Epcot (both Operations and Imagineering) have no interest in accomplishing EPCOT Center's original mission. Unfortunately, this has been the case for over a dozen years. Anyone within the company who has suggested that Epcot should inspire or enrich the guests, have been quietly demoted, fired, laid-off or just transfered away from Epcot. Some were even promoted (kicked upstairs) to get them away from Epcot. The dominate mentality within TWDC is that when Epcot tries to enrich the public it is viewed as boring, and no one can seem to change their minds. The managers of Epcot have no desire to inspire anyone, they only want to make money (they say for the shareholders, but that really means for themselves). The values of Epcot today reflect the values of the Walt Disney Compnay today, and those values reflect the values of Wall Street.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Can you major in it?:lookaroun:lol:
Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
Disneyfanman
Well-Known Member
The OP makes a lot of very valid points. I understand his perspective and I often read people lamenting about the demise of EPCOT. Let me offer another point of view.
In 1982 I thought EPCOT was a very boring place to visit.
I found it long in the tooth the year after it opened. I snoozed during World of Motion, thought the Universe of Energy was dull with a capital D, and the only two attractions that I liked were the Land boat ride (Whatever it was called back then), and the original JII.
Oh and the American Adventure. I remember seeing that twice.
Most of the people that I knew who visited EPCOT back then had similar comments. A one time visit.....never go back.
Now back then we were young men in our 20s. I cannot say that we were cultured, or sophisticated. Just three guys with a few bucks having a good time. We loved the Magic Kingdom, but thought EPCOT was a snooze.
The Epcot of today has shifted from its mission. Nobody can defend all of Disney's decisions and changes. Lots of them seem pretty lame. But in my mind the Epcot of today is a lot of fun to visit and spend multiple days exploring. I never miss going to the park when I visit WDW. Some of the things that they are doing today really seem to enhance the experience, look and feel of the place. Some of their decisions (like the drastic reduction in holiday decorations or the total dumbing down of JII) are foolish and short sighted. In general, however, I would take the Epcot of today a million times over the EPCOT of 1982. Because I would rather visit attractions INSPIRED by the world that are FUN, than visit a museum (for my 90 bucks a day).
In my mind Disney had done a lot more right than wrong with Epcot over the years. I know that opinion isn't very popular here, but I really feel that way. I don't think EPCOT would have survived if it hadn't changed in the direction that it has.
In 1982 I thought EPCOT was a very boring place to visit.
I found it long in the tooth the year after it opened. I snoozed during World of Motion, thought the Universe of Energy was dull with a capital D, and the only two attractions that I liked were the Land boat ride (Whatever it was called back then), and the original JII.
Oh and the American Adventure. I remember seeing that twice.
Most of the people that I knew who visited EPCOT back then had similar comments. A one time visit.....never go back.
Now back then we were young men in our 20s. I cannot say that we were cultured, or sophisticated. Just three guys with a few bucks having a good time. We loved the Magic Kingdom, but thought EPCOT was a snooze.
The Epcot of today has shifted from its mission. Nobody can defend all of Disney's decisions and changes. Lots of them seem pretty lame. But in my mind the Epcot of today is a lot of fun to visit and spend multiple days exploring. I never miss going to the park when I visit WDW. Some of the things that they are doing today really seem to enhance the experience, look and feel of the place. Some of their decisions (like the drastic reduction in holiday decorations or the total dumbing down of JII) are foolish and short sighted. In general, however, I would take the Epcot of today a million times over the EPCOT of 1982. Because I would rather visit attractions INSPIRED by the world that are FUN, than visit a museum (for my 90 bucks a day).
In my mind Disney had done a lot more right than wrong with Epcot over the years. I know that opinion isn't very popular here, but I really feel that way. I don't think EPCOT would have survived if it hadn't changed in the direction that it has.
beyondyou
Member
that is what should be taught at DU!! haha. they would need one heck of a prof though! get meg down there...oh wait...
tirian
Well-Known Member
I agree with you regarding attraction variety. EPCOT Center's greatest weakness was that everything was a slow omnimover with a deep orchestral score. The music is great on its own, but a full day of it gets old fast. I remember being excited when Test Track replaced WoM because Epcot's greatest thrill was Body Wars. But there's no reason to toss out EPCOT Center's purpose of discovering and inspiring just because the ride system changes.
Should we even mention the architectural changes, which all look like whirligig/mid-90s crap compared to the timeless structures originally built?
the-reason14
Well-Known Member
_Scar;3898874[B said:
The only difference is that Walt and the people back then, casted people with talent.
You're response summed up, what I was trying to say originally, I just couldn't put it into words, the way I wanted too. Maybe EPCOT was just too good of a dream, for us, at least today anyways.
the-reason14
Well-Known Member
_Scar;3898874Walt Disney essentially created EPCOT said:
EDIT double post
Sadly no, but I get EPCOT, I understand it despite not riding any of the old rides. My first time at Disney was back during the Millennium Celebration.
I don't know, but if they aren't, I wish they would..
EpcotServo
Well-Known Member
"Something is wrong, and I wish it was better"
sounds like a ballad.
I guess my thread would've been titled
"Once there was a way, to get back homeward"
Followed of course, by the thread:
"Boy, You're Gonna' Carry that Weight", etc.
sounds like a ballad.
I guess my thread would've been titled
"Once there was a way, to get back homeward"
Followed of course, by the thread:
"Boy, You're Gonna' Carry that Weight", etc.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Good points, but what I bolded.... Why can't there be attractions that are BOTH inspiring and fun? These things go both ways. Why placate one demographic, when you can hit two? I talked about that on page 1.
the closest thing to that now is SSE, which isn't saying much because the "fun" part of it is disjointed and intrudes on the OTHER part of the attraction.
:dazzle: The only place like that is Innoventions and TT's Canopy. the rest of the park is fine, it just needs some re-coloring and fixed up landscaping. FW East and Central, especially. West and WS retain their looks perfectly.
That's a nice title, haha, it's too late now. I'm not the best at making title names.
As someone who has been to WDW at least 10 times in his 40 year lifetime, I can safey say that the original magic is lost. Not to say the the politically correct way of today is not right, but the ways of yesterday made EPCOT special at least in my opinion.
My first trip in the mid 80's and 9 trips since then. Having seen the park originally throug the eyes of a teenager and now through the eyes of my 4 year old daughter the magic of today is a mere shadow of what it once was.
I for one think that since some of the youth of today is actually noticing this, the powers that be should sit up and take notice.
Perhaps a step back to the youth of Epcot could be a first step in an old direction that ultimately would lead us to what we all really want.
The Epcot of yesterday with the dreams and ideas of tomorrow.
Just my opinion.
This is a great thread.
My first trip in the mid 80's and 9 trips since then. Having seen the park originally throug the eyes of a teenager and now through the eyes of my 4 year old daughter the magic of today is a mere shadow of what it once was.
I for one think that since some of the youth of today is actually noticing this, the powers that be should sit up and take notice.
Perhaps a step back to the youth of Epcot could be a first step in an old direction that ultimately would lead us to what we all really want.
The Epcot of yesterday with the dreams and ideas of tomorrow.
Just my opinion.
This is a great thread.
Philosophically
Philisophically, the OP is hitting on the essence of the modernist to post-modernist transition. Disney was in every way a modernist. He believed in people, in right and wrong, in the idea that by dreaming humans can make the world a better place.
Unfortunately (in my view) we live in a post-modern world. Philisophically that shift began in the late 60's and continues today. People no longer believe in right and wrong, no longer believe that things are getting better, no longer believe that by working together the world can be a better place. This leads to all kinds of moral and cultural relativism, which has in many ways made our society a different place. The OP is right to associate the changes in Epcot with that shift, and in my view, was very perceptive for such a young poster.
I never really knew the world in anything but a moderately post-modern position, but I long to live in a place where individual freedom and achievement are valued and the contribution to the greater good is treasured. The cynicism of this age makes me sick to my stomach, and I think Walt would really work to change that....like the folks at Pixar (which is why I love them so much).
Anyway, thanks for the great post!
Philisophically, the OP is hitting on the essence of the modernist to post-modernist transition. Disney was in every way a modernist. He believed in people, in right and wrong, in the idea that by dreaming humans can make the world a better place.
Unfortunately (in my view) we live in a post-modern world. Philisophically that shift began in the late 60's and continues today. People no longer believe in right and wrong, no longer believe that things are getting better, no longer believe that by working together the world can be a better place. This leads to all kinds of moral and cultural relativism, which has in many ways made our society a different place. The OP is right to associate the changes in Epcot with that shift, and in my view, was very perceptive for such a young poster.
I never really knew the world in anything but a moderately post-modern position, but I long to live in a place where individual freedom and achievement are valued and the contribution to the greater good is treasured. The cynicism of this age makes me sick to my stomach, and I think Walt would really work to change that....like the folks at Pixar (which is why I love them so much).
Anyway, thanks for the great post!
Disneyfanman
Well-Known Member
I never feel like the magic is lost. I get goosebumps everytime I walk onto the property.
Isn't it possible that people sometimes remember early EPCOT being better than it actually was? I can't be the only guy on the boards who was bored snailing past robot horses in 1982. Or listening to a ponderous speech on energy by the folks who drill for it.
I do think that they need a more focused master strategy. I love the place but do think that more focus on "what really fits" would avoid the big misses that nobody likes. They need to finish SSE. They need to blow up and really fix JIYI. If only we ran the world.
But they absolutely should not return to the world of omnimover attractions that substituted museum like displays for entertainment. They SHOULD be very careful that anything else they add fit into the overall vision and create inspirational attractions that are big people pleasers. Soarin' (Even though it came from DCA) is a GREAT example! I thought it fit Epcot like a glove. Almost anyone can do it, it fits the overall theme, and leaves people in awe.
I like the Epcot of today very much. And I really prefer it to the EPCOT of 28 years ago. I hope the Epcot of tomorrow is even better still!
RandySavage
Well-Known Member
My take on Future World...
Imagine a great film, your favorite film, that was made in an earlier era (the 70s/80s/90s) and set in the then-present. There is only one print of this classic film (and no DVDs), and it is shown in only one theater in the world. If you want to appreciate the genius of this single cinematic work, you must travel to its theater.
As time goes by, the Theater Owners decide (potentially rightly) that this beautiful, singular film is getting tired and certain scenes need updating. But rather than bring back the original director (he died or retired) to change out these scenes and keep them true to his original vision, the Owners bring in new, less capable directors/editors.
These people go into the editing room and cut out entire segments of the original film stock (destroying them forever) and replace them with new segments that they believe will be popular with people in the short-term (following current pop culture trends).
Year after year, the Owners order original film scenes to be cut out and replaced with new scenes - only these scenes are not as good as the earlier ones, do not mesh well, or alter the original film's storyline entirely.
Today, when you go to that theater, little remains of the original film... it is instead filled with non-sequitur scenes by varied directors, different actors playing same roles, different soundtracks, and one or two scenes spliced in that were taken directly from another film. While a few of these scenes are still enjoyable, the film as a whole is an incoherent mess.
The unique, singular beauty that once was is completely gone... forever. That is EPCOT Future World.
Imagine a great film, your favorite film, that was made in an earlier era (the 70s/80s/90s) and set in the then-present. There is only one print of this classic film (and no DVDs), and it is shown in only one theater in the world. If you want to appreciate the genius of this single cinematic work, you must travel to its theater.
As time goes by, the Theater Owners decide (potentially rightly) that this beautiful, singular film is getting tired and certain scenes need updating. But rather than bring back the original director (he died or retired) to change out these scenes and keep them true to his original vision, the Owners bring in new, less capable directors/editors.
These people go into the editing room and cut out entire segments of the original film stock (destroying them forever) and replace them with new segments that they believe will be popular with people in the short-term (following current pop culture trends).
Year after year, the Owners order original film scenes to be cut out and replaced with new scenes - only these scenes are not as good as the earlier ones, do not mesh well, or alter the original film's storyline entirely.
Today, when you go to that theater, little remains of the original film... it is instead filled with non-sequitur scenes by varied directors, different actors playing same roles, different soundtracks, and one or two scenes spliced in that were taken directly from another film. While a few of these scenes are still enjoyable, the film as a whole is an incoherent mess.
The unique, singular beauty that once was is completely gone... forever. That is EPCOT Future World.