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Someone please save Pooh at EPCOT
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
Bingo
New Member
The parks already have a mice infestation.
JohnD
Well-Known Member
Oh, bother!
CntrlFlPete
Well-Known Member
as a consumer, I think the 'metric' should be 'percentage of guest that encountered a character' as opposed to staffing cost.
I imagine the craziness of WDW (larger crowds, more 'once in a lifetime' guest) makes roaming charters difficult. I will say they seem to have roaming characters in GE, but that feels like a broken promise of the 'very blue sky' descriptions the consumer in me heard when the star wars land's immersive atmosphere was spoke of prior to construction starts.
Sadly, I feel these 'drive by' encounters that came w/ COVID are the best WDW can do. In colder months, I have seen Pooh getting a crowd into some sort of left side cheer/right side cheer contest that brought a lot of guest into a single 'moment". I imagine the kids enjoy seeing him chase butterflies in the field. Must really suck for the cast members though!
I imagine the craziness of WDW (larger crowds, more 'once in a lifetime' guest) makes roaming charters difficult. I will say they seem to have roaming characters in GE, but that feels like a broken promise of the 'very blue sky' descriptions the consumer in me heard when the star wars land's immersive atmosphere was spoke of prior to construction starts.
Sadly, I feel these 'drive by' encounters that came w/ COVID are the best WDW can do. In colder months, I have seen Pooh getting a crowd into some sort of left side cheer/right side cheer contest that brought a lot of guest into a single 'moment". I imagine the kids enjoy seeing him chase butterflies in the field. Must really suck for the cast members though!
The increase in population and decrease of unpopulated land with increase use of fertilizer and watering is impacting the viability of the aquafir . So the state has imposed restrictions on fertilizer and water use for non-agricultural businesses - along with restricting residents.
Having drinking water and food is more important, IMO, than having green lawns for show. We haven't had enough daily rain to overcome the drying effect of high temperatures. I am hoping that we will have rain today so I don't have to water my potted plants. The rest of my plants/shrubs/trees will survive.
flynnibus
Premium Member
only if you count the people 'seeing the characters at a distance' as 'meeting the characters'
The performers work shorter shifts and the turnover takes longer for the outside characters. That means less interactions per day even if they had the same # of characters.
WDW could put more variety of characters in the same spots... but guests clamor for the highlight characters. DLR has a much higher repeat audience so they obviously want more diversity.
They should dedicate a pavilion in which one can meet a lot of characters and have other games and entertainment for children!!!
Yes. I noted this. Not everyone wants to have to put all their things down and have the full interaction. You don't have to count or click people who saw at a distance, but if they stop and have any sort of interaction. Just like the people counters at Fairytale hall count all the dad's, mom's and siblings who did not interact at all.
The costumes and face characters know how to read that for the most part. In Fairytale hall you are typically getting those who want more of the intimate personal feeling which for Mickey and princesses can work as I noted, but even there some kids are ok moving on.
There is the audience argument again.
No one is asking for new characters every year or to rotate. It is done elsewhere. I think people just know how the place operated for nearly forty years and does still elsewhere that does not have World in the title. It also disperses the crowd vs making it a must do attraction style queue where guests still met characters.
This may shock people, but we could have Mickey, Fairytale Hall AND more character roams.
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That would be bad for health.
The fact that Disney even considered the play pavilion kind of shows the flaw in current leadership in culture climate.
Adults and teens come get in line for online klout while kids need something to do.
The moment kids need playgrounds to entertain them while there are characters to witness, you are doing characters wrong.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
the moment you need characters to entertain them when there are rides and shows in a theme park, you are doing something wrong....That would be bad for health.
The fact that Disney even considered the play pavilion kind of shows the flaw in current leadership in culture climate.
Adults and teens come get in line for online klout while kids need something to do.
The moment kids need playgrounds to entertain them while there are characters to witness, you are doing characters wrong.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
NO!!! lol but they were supposed to be doing meet and greets at Communicore Hall I thought... replacing the Character Spot they tore down.
Exactly. Well said. Some people love meeting characters. They were always the extra bits that help things live.
WDW is the place that tried to feed you candles and tell you it is a bite of the cake.
(No 25th castle jokes please)
That is the plan for Mickey and friends.
Maybe Figment lobby will become the regular spot for all others.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Things you're skipping...
1) A M&G Factory runs from open to close - unlike all roaming characters. Roaming characters have peak periods and then will thin out after dark or during other things like fireworks, parades, etc.
2) A M&G Factory is indoors allowing longer shifts per performer - outdoor characters typically work 20min shifts... indoor work 45min. That means less time spent in turnover - aka downtime where no guests are being seen. It also means the # of guests each performer sees will be higher.
3) A M&G factory with multiple rooms allows performer changeovers out of sight - so they are much shorter. So again, less downtime.
So in your hypothetical 'five of each princess on staff' - they would ALWAYS meet less guests than 5 princesses in a M&G factory in the same day because they work less and there is more downtime.
"Factory" is the best way to describe it - the character halls like Town Hall, Innovations, are there to pump the volume of people that can meet guests so wdw management can hit their imaginary guest goals of all the things they 'must do' on a trip and do so in a predictable manner. Then WDW has all its 'fixed location' M&Gs that are an inbetween of the benefits.
WDW is building for scale... and isn't addressing your desire for diversity or adlib. But that doesn't negate that by sheer volume of characters working.
Additionally, WDW is heavily invested in character meals - remembering there are TWELVE dining locations across property - to just 3 at DLR total.
If I were trying to paint an evil empire picture... I'd probably point at buoying the value of character dining than I'd be pointing at photopass/genie+ desires.
As long as they don't touch the chase visa. Only way we meet Mickey and whoever anymore. Kidding would not be the biggest loss.
Not skipping. These were all addressed in past pages.
Particularly now to your last one. Food is incredibly expensive to operate by comparison. You still get a meal out of that too. You have to serve and clean up after people, abide by many food prep and safety before and after guests are gone. Meet and greets have things to be done and closed and open for, but the ROI is not comparable.
Digital photo purchase to download is a much bigger ROI and there is a reason that exploded from the company who has always also(and still when trained well) been willing to take your photo for free. As is selling time for Genie Plus.
Who said evil?
You know HHN character dining never removed actors from the streets at Universal? They added more performers so the streets would not be sacrificed. Nor the houses.
Once the event took off they built and staffed more scare zones, not less.
At Disneyland to WDW when parades became a daily norm. Initially characters from the zoo did not shrink, the opportunities and staffing increased.
But it Is a bigger ROI for all the reasons you pointed, which again, goes back to points made earlier in this discussion you have not read or skipped.
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flynnibus
Premium Member
If you were comparing to 'adding a new food location' you'd be correct. But what character dining does is inflate the ASP of an existing dining venue you had anyway. The analysis is more about driving utilization of that dining hall (where margins increase as you increase utilization) and the additional revenue vs the character cost and potential for lower turnover. I mean, when Disney can charge $65 for BREAKFAST per person for a breakfast buffet... that otherwise would be about $20-25.. that's the delta you are interested in - not dining vs photopass.
Given the # of venues that Disney has converted - it's safe to assume the math works in their favor.
Digital photos have a high margin given their price point, but it's also revenue they freely give away and is likely subsidized a good bit internally. The big push to bundle memory maker as a 'perk' should tell you a bit about actual a la carte sales numbers.
You've postulated the reason they operate they do is greed for photopass and genue+ sales. (never mind that photopass is at every M&G regardless...)
Or maybe points you keep going back to without acknowledging the stuff that challenged your 'belief' previously.
Your food analysis would be a different thing entirely. We can go into how that has changed experience if you like but that is a different discussion. This discussion has been about meet ans greet experiences from the way they operate characters at WDW
To the point, what is quoted here is you agree. I worked at the DRC.(Photopass servers and guest contact also housed in that building too)
I was in sales. I was never good at selling photopass was not for me because in good conscience I felt it was not worth the price when the company has always been willing to take your family photo for you with staffing and a request.
Whether it is a la carte or in ore purchased bulk makes no difference. You are just reverse engineering why I made the point. Huge ROI and another reason the factories and meet and greets at major parks now exist the way they do.
It is not evil.
What it is, is a better ROI and what people have been saying here in WDWs case has condensed and removed the staffing numbers and variety of experiences offered to the guests.
To all the insults, it is wasted space. Let's not bring that into discussion.
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CntrlFlPete
Well-Known Member
sounds like where IPcot started back in the day
flynnibus
Premium Member
Eh.. you're the one who brought up ROI and then tried to discount the ROI of character dining by drawing on bad assumptions. my analysis is on point when talking about where characters are and why.
To which putting MASSIVE amount of character performers into a dozen dining locations for three meals a day is very much part of the topic of you trying to dismiss WDW's model as one designed to reduce staffing -- counter to characters telling you otherwise.
At this point you're just not even making sense. Bundling vs a al carte offer design very much makes a difference. At this point this is just talking to a wall. Believe what you want... because you're just ignoring real input.
Well when you open a response with this
And close with this.
I will ignore the wall.