Some Ask if the Disney Magic Is Slipping (NY Times article)

Legacy

Well-Known Member
The one "Wow" moment I can distinctly remember was about three years ago. I was going to Epcot to meet some friends for dinner at the Coral Reef. I came in through the World Showcase entrance, and stopped to watch Off-Kilter perform. Turns out it was Canada Day, so all the Canadian CMs where out there en mass. About halfway through the set though, the sky opened up. But kept watching the show, with no umbrella, until they canceled it. When the show was final cut short, a manager walked over put her umbrella over me and asked where I was heading. I just walked into the Canada store to wait out the rain, but the fact that she was willing to walk wherever I was heading realy stuck with me.
 

WDWCP

New Member
I'm not so sure that "Dumb" tourists is quite the right description. Frankly, I agree that "uneducated" or "uninformed" is much more accurate.


As a former CM working in the Parking lot of MGM, my favorite type of uninformed tourists are the ones that drive up to the CM and ask them how to get to Disney!

It's so funny because you know what they mean is to ask how to get to the Magic Kingdom, but they think MK is all Disney is and don't realize that MGM Studios is also Disney. So, as that CM, we just smile and say "You're AT Disney World!" - Then we tell them how to get to where they really intend to go so we keep their day nice and happy...
 

Computer Magic

Well-Known Member
speck76 said:
I agree 100%

People in another thread were complaining about (and jsut could not believe) that Soarin' had a 170 minute wait......prior to FastPass, almost EVERY major attraction had a 1, 2, or even 3 hour wait during the busy seasons. Now, many people will not ride (and get needlessly upset) if they have to wait more than 20-30 minutes.
I think part of that is how society has changed over the years. People don't like to wait or have the patience of the past. Everyone seems to be in such a hurry instead of stopping and smelling the roses.
 

slappy magoo

Well-Known Member
I think it's fair to say (and repeat) that one of the reasons people hold WDW to such high standards is not just because WDW sets that bar so high. It's because a trip to WDW can be very very expensive. Just for chucks and giggles, I checked out the online price for a family of 4 staying at Pop for 8 days, 7 nights, with MYW Plus Package tickets (without the no expiration option), and the Dining Plan. It's over $2500. Granted, many of us know ways to bring that price down, but not everyone does. Now, I don't know what the average income is, but if that family's income was, say, 50 grand a year, they're spending 5% of their gross income on this vacation. And this is for a Value resort. Imagine shelling out the money necessary to stay at a Deluxe resort. Or with concierge service.

For a 30 dollar a night Motel 6, I'll forgive it if the sheets are a little torn. For the money you have to spend to get, and then stay, at WDW, you can be expected to have high standards.

And I KNOW, that doesn't mean that spending that kind of money doesn't give people the right to treat CMs like garbage, or assume that everything will be done for them to the point where they think wiping their hinders should be included in the price. But on the flip side, if you see something genuinely wrong with your room, if you were guaranteed something that wasn't delivered (which is why WDW tries not to promise anything), if your food was undercooked or your neighbors too loud and unruly in the wee hours of the morning, people are bound to think "I spent HOW MUCH for this?"

"Value" is a perception. If I spend 25 bucks for a night at a motel on the way to WDW, you won't hear nary a peep from me unless I find a used condom wrapped around the doorknob. But once I spend Disney prices, I expect the service that traditionally has been the trade-off to those prices.
 

kiawahman

Account Suspended
also an issue that arose in an article in The Orlando Sentinel, published in March 2004, about its investigation of maintenance at Disney World's Magic Kingdom. The paper reported that "flaws included worn walkways and steps, rotting wood, scratched and chipped stucco, peeling paint, rusted railings, faded awnings and yellowing plants."

I thought he was right on the money here. I am starting to worry about Disney not having enough or enough of the right kind of management at WDW. It is people like us who really love the Disney company who should be in management positions.
 

socalkdg

Active Member
slappy magoo said:
For a 30 dollar a night Motel 6, I'll forgive it if the sheets are a little torn. For the money you have to spend to get, and then stay, at WDW, you can be expected to have high standards.

"Value" is a perception. If I spend 25 bucks for a night at a motel on the way to WDW, you won't hear nary a peep from me unless I find a used condom wrapped around the doorknob. But once I spend Disney prices, I expect the service that traditionally has been the trade-off to those prices.
Just as the cost of cheap motels is a perception. The 5 cheapest motels in the Orlando area(in middle of Jan.) ave. $48 per night(from expedia). When you add the cost of parking at the parks you at $58. Now compare that number to $70 at a value on property and the gap is substantially narrowed. Throw in the cost of a rental car when staying off property at a cheap motel, combined with EMH and other benifits offered to staying on property and all of a sudden that cheap motel doesn't save you any money, nor get you any Disney Magic.
 

Dayma

Well-Known Member
This sounds like a fair article.

I can attest to the bus waiting times being longer than the average 15 minutes 10 years ago...
 

nibblesandbits

Well-Known Member
socalkdg said:
Just as the cost of cheap motels is a perception. The 5 cheapest motels in the Orlando area(in middle of Jan.) ave. $48 per night(from expedia). When you add the cost of parking at the parks you at $58. Now compare that number to $70 at a value on property and the gap is substantially narrowed. Throw in the cost of a rental car when staying off property at a cheap motel, combined with EMH and other benifits offered to staying on property and all of a sudden that cheap motel doesn't save you any money, nor get you any Disney Magic.

That is a very valid point...and one that makes a heck of a lot of sense.
 

ClemsonTigger

Naturally Grumpy
blackride said:
This sounds like a fair article.

I can attest to the bus waiting times being longer than the average 15 minutes 10 years ago...


Ten years ago, no AK, MGM just, DTD much less an attraction, fewer hotels....probably have something to do with it...
 

CRO-Magnum

Active Member
Disney's Standards are Hardly the Highest Among Hotels

dave2822 said:
I suppose it's "well balanced," but "pointless" comes to mind. Nobody else even tries to do what Disney does, the standards they set are incredible.

Marriott, The Four Seasons, The Ritz Carlton, Hilton, and The Westin all have higher standards for customer service than Disney. I travel the world on business and go to WDW three or four times a year with my family. I worked in Resorts at WDW (in reservations) so I know the system pretty well. I can assure you that the quality of the experience has declined steadily over the past 25 years starting back when I would go with my parents. The biggest issues, which have all happened in the past five years:

1. Last year Disney lost my reservation at Fort Wilderness. The manager accused me of falsifying an emailed confirmation to which I immediately produced the white mail version and watched her shrink in horror. I demanded an appology which she refused. As a matter of principle I refused to leave it at that and pursued two days of calling managers and reservations. I had to call a senior manager friend who got a Resorts executive who appologized and refunded the first three nights.

2. Two years ago I showed up at the Contemporary and was told my tower room, which I had reserved, was not available. Instead I was offered a wing room which I at first refused. I asked about the Poly or Grand Floridian and was told they were sold out. I begrudgingly took the wing room. When I arrived it was a smoking room which, combined with the soaking wet carpet, made the room smell horrible. I called the Poly and GF directly; both had rooms. I returned to the front desk, explained the room was unacceptable and informed them they were wrong because the Poly and GF both had rooms available. When I told them I was leaving I was presented with a bill! Not only that, it was at the much higher tower rate! I told them they must be kidding and to get a manager before I went ballistic. The manager said I had already occupied the room to which I requested he visit the room with me. When we arrived he agreed the room was uninhabitable and offered another room to which I told him to zero out the bill before I became unruly (it helped that I am 6'2" and he barely reached my shoulders).

2. Three years ago I was billed at the Coronado Springs Resort for my room plus someone elses. It took 3 months to resolve the situation including three letters, seventeen phone calls, and a cease and desist letter from an attorney to Disney. Just before getting the refund, the previous manager offered "a substantial discount". Are you kidding me?

3. Five years ago at the Polynesian the day bed was broken as was a light fixture with exposed wires. We asked for a new room and were told they'd be glad to upgrade us at a cost. I refused and explained my wife was a travel news editor and would be happy to write an article about this experience. Disney offered to fix the problem and then showed up at 9pm! I went to the front desk where I offered to lick my fingers, grab the wires, and sue Disney for millions before the night manager moved us to a new room. Oh, and yes, the wires were live!

In contrast, my one comparable problem in the last five years outside of Disney:

Three years ago I was staying at a Hilton in London and the air conditioner in my room broke. They asked if I would prefer to be moved or have an engineer come up. They sent a bellman to help move my things, escort me to the new room, and make sure the A/C was working. The next morning there was a letter at the front desk from the manager with an apology, and upon checkout noticed they refunded that night.

I have had problems at many hotels, but they have all been resolved within minutes or hours. I have had rooms refunded, been relocated or upgraded, and even been moved to another facility. Only Disney has the audacity to assume the customer is wrong, crazy, or gullible. I am returning to WDW in two weeks because although their resorts have serious problems, I find my magic in the theme parks.
 

wickedqueen

New Member
One of the main problems I see in the declining magic is that Disney does not pay to keep excellent cast members. When kids are working 60+ hours per week just to bring in a 300 dollar paycheck, something is really wrong.
 

slappy magoo

Well-Known Member
socalkdg said:
Just as the cost of cheap motels is a perception. The 5 cheapest motels in the Orlando area(in middle of Jan.) ave. $48 per night(from expedia). When you add the cost of parking at the parks you at $58. Now compare that number to $70 at a value on property and the gap is substantially narrowed. Throw in the cost of a rental car when staying off property at a cheap motel, combined with EMH and other benifits offered to staying on property and all of a sudden that cheap motel doesn't save you any money, nor get you any Disney Magic.

That is all true, and I'll admit, that part of my point wasn't as well-thought-out. When I was talking about the cost of staying at Disney (as opposed to grabbing a cheap place to sleep on the way TO Disney), I was thinking more about people staying at Deluxes and Home-Away-From-Home Resorts. Rooms which, without discounts, start at 200 dollars a night. Granted, there should be a appropriate level of quality in any room Disney rents out, but I'd consider it fair for someone to be MORE angry the more they had to pay for that room if there are obvious lapses in quality. I'm not talking about people who just "expected something better." I'm talking about unclean rooms, rooms in need of electrical repair or plumbing that are unsafe, getting a smoking room when you specifically requested a non-smoking room, getting a refrigerator that smells like a$$ because housekeeping unplugged it and now anything you put in there smells/tastes horrible, being overbilled for rooms you requested and didn't get (ie, you asked for a savannah view at AKL, they had no rooms available, so you accepted a standard room facing the parking lot but they still charged you the savannah view rate). Those sorts of things. Any of those examples could be considered unacceptable, but the more money you spend, the more I think it's appropriate to be angrier if those standards are not met.
 

Vernonpush

Well-Known Member
speck76 said:
Some Ask if the Disney Magic Is Slipping
By CHARLES PASSY
The New York Times


Then, there's the "wow" I experience every time I enter the Magic Kingdom. Seeing the cobblestone streets and the rows of old-timey shops, I can't help but buy into the fantasy that is Walt Disney's Main Street, designed after the one in his boyhood home of Marceline, Mo. Some might call it synthetic, but that's missing the point: It never pretends to be real.

And that's perhaps why when Disney stumbles, we respond so vociferously. If we wanted the headaches and hassles, we'd stay at the budget motel off the Interstate. Instead, we want the magic. And we'll keep going to Disney World in search of it - for the time being.

I don't remember any cobblestones. I guess the "Magic" was there.
 

socalkdg

Active Member
slappy magoo said:
That is all true, and I'll admit, that part of my point wasn't as well-thought-out. When I was talking about the cost of staying at Disney (as opposed to grabbing a cheap place to sleep on the way TO Disney), I was thinking more about people staying at Deluxes and Home-Away-From-Home Resorts. Rooms which, without discounts, start at 200 dollars a night. Granted, there should be a appropriate level of quality in any room Disney rents out, but I'd consider it fair for someone to be MORE angry the more they had to pay for that room if there are obvious lapses in quality. I'm not talking about people who just "expected something better." I'm talking about unclean rooms, rooms in need of electrical repair or plumbing that are unsafe, getting a smoking room when you specifically requested a non-smoking room, getting a refrigerator that smells like a$$ because housekeeping unplugged it and now anything you put in there smells/tastes horrible, being overbilled for rooms you requested and didn't get (ie, you asked for a savannah view at AKL, they had no rooms available, so you accepted a standard room facing the parking lot but they still charged you the savannah view rate). Those sorts of things. Any of those examples could be considered unacceptable, but the more money you spend, the more I think it's appropriate to be angrier if those standards are not met.
Completely agree with you when it comes to the Deluxes. Besides more amenities there should also be more staff thus usually better service. I was actually surprised when I saw the costs of cheap motels as they weren't that dramaticlly cheaper than onsite values.

One thing I find surprising is that it seems like certain people always seem to get lousy service. I've seen many polls on the Disboards and its usually 85% or above that were happy with their room/trip. I've only been twice and both times had great rooms and staff that went above and beyond to make memorable trips. Next trip in January and expect it to be wonderful as well.
 

speck76

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
socalkdg said:
One thing I find surprising is that it seems like certain people always seem to get lousy service.


Some people can not be pleased.

They pay for POP, but expect the GF.

Others are just all-around miserable.

And a few act like idiots, and blow-up if one little thing goes wrong. Hotels really do not intentionally cause problems.....but they are run by humans, and humans make mistakes. Should a mistake happen, people who blow-up at the staff will typically get less of a result than someone who is calm and collected. The staff wants to help, and they want to help in a manner that is going to fix every issue, as they really do not enjoy these occasional problems. If a guest is screaming, threatening, or just a jerk, chances are the fix will be less satisfying.......why wast money or time on someone that really is not going to appreciate it.
 

mousermerf

Account Suspended
I'm crappy experience prone :(

I don't do anything "wrong" and I tend to be fairly amicable about the whole thing. But then I end up screwed over by footing the bill and usually getting no service :(
 

cherrynegra

Well-Known Member
I find when one reeeeeeeeeealllllllllllyyyyyyyyy lowers their expectations, they wind up becoming pleasantly surprised in the end. :lol:

I've been to WDW three times in the past two years and this December will be my fourth time. I've stayed on property at five different resorts ranging from Pop to AKL. The only time I ever truly had problems was checking in at AKL. I changed rooms three times due to rooms not being cleaned. Did I expect more because it was Disney? Of course!! Did I chalk it up to a lack or decline of magic? Of course NOT. Disney is like any other resort that's run by humans. There are going to be problems. It's all in the attitude you take when problems arise. The CMs do not want to make your life hell. They want your vacation to be a dream come true as much as you do. You just have to remember that making magic takes a lot of work and sometimes things don't always work. But there's still magic out there in Disney World. You just have to be willing to find it. Sometimes in places you least expect.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
I've spent a lot of time in different forms of the customer service industry. And I can tell you there are a lot of very valid points here.

1. Disney is pretty notorious for paying CMs a less-than-living wage. An increase in pay doesn't guarantee better service, but when you're having trouble making ends meet it's going to demoralize employees.

2. Customer expectations are crazy. They are crazier at Disney than maybe anywhere else in the world, but they are crazy everywhere. Customers have been conditioned to blow everything out of proportion to try and get something free. They have nothing to loose. As far as they are concerned, the worst thing that can happen is that they are told "no" by someone they are unlikely to ever see again. And if they are loud enough, they may get something free.

3. Tying into #2. CMs are conditioned to be dismissive of customer complaints. If you work in customer service long enough you come to realize that most customer complaints are baseless. The danger is that you start treating the people with real problems dismissively. A good customer service employee treats all complaints as though they were a high priority even if experience suggests otherwise.

Do I think the magic is slipping? Not really. But I would like to see Disney really concentrate on the level of service it provides. It's one of the things they are known for and for good or bad we hold them to a higher level than any other amusement park.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
CRO-Magnum said:
Marriott, The Four Seasons, The Ritz Carlton, Hilton, and The Westin all have higher standards for customer service than Disney. I travel the world on business and go to WDW three or four times a year with my family. I worked in Resorts at WDW (in reservations) so I know the system pretty well. I can assure you that the quality of the experience has declined steadily over the past 25 years starting back when I would go with my parents. The biggest issues, which have all happened in the past five years:

1. Last year Disney lost my reservation at Fort Wilderness. The manager accused me of falsifying an emailed confirmation to which I immediately produced the white mail version and watched her shrink in horror. I demanded an appology which she refused. As a matter of principle I refused to leave it at that and pursued two days of calling managers and reservations. I had to call a senior manager friend who got a Resorts executive who appologized and refunded the first three nights.

2. Two years ago I showed up at the Contemporary and was told my tower room, which I had reserved, was not available. Instead I was offered a wing room which I at first refused. I asked about the Poly or Grand Floridian and was told they were sold out. I begrudgingly took the wing room. When I arrived it was a smoking room which, combined with the soaking wet carpet, made the room smell horrible. I called the Poly and GF directly; both had rooms. I returned to the front desk, explained the room was unacceptable and informed them they were wrong because the Poly and GF both had rooms available. When I told them I was leaving I was presented with a bill! Not only that, it was at the much higher tower rate! I told them they must be kidding and to get a manager before I went ballistic. The manager said I had already occupied the room to which I requested he visit the room with me. When we arrived he agreed the room was uninhabitable and offered another room to which I told him to zero out the bill before I became unruly (it helped that I am 6'2" and he barely reached my shoulders).

2. Three years ago I was billed at the Coronado Springs Resort for my room plus someone elses. It took 3 months to resolve the situation including three letters, seventeen phone calls, and a cease and desist letter from an attorney to Disney. Just before getting the refund, the previous manager offered "a substantial discount". Are you kidding me?

3. Five years ago at the Polynesian the day bed was broken as was a light fixture with exposed wires. We asked for a new room and were told they'd be glad to upgrade us at a cost. I refused and explained my wife was a travel news editor and would be happy to write an article about this experience. Disney offered to fix the problem and then showed up at 9pm! I went to the front desk where I offered to lick my fingers, grab the wires, and sue Disney for millions before the night manager moved us to a new room. Oh, and yes, the wires were live!

In contrast, my one comparable problem in the last five years outside of Disney:

Three years ago I was staying at a Hilton in London and the air conditioner in my room broke. They asked if I would prefer to be moved or have an engineer come up. They sent a bellman to help move my things, escort me to the new room, and make sure the A/C was working. The next morning there was a letter at the front desk from the manager with an apology, and upon checkout noticed they refunded that night.

I have had problems at many hotels, but they have all been resolved within minutes or hours. I have had rooms refunded, been relocated or upgraded, and even been moved to another facility. Only Disney has the audacity to assume the customer is wrong, crazy, or gullible. I am returning to WDW in two weeks because although their resorts have serious problems, I find my magic in the theme parks.

It sounds like Disney really dropped the ball with you a couple of times. But honestly, from the tone of your posting at least, it doesn't sound like you were the easiest customer to work with. As another poster pointed out, CMs are more inclined to do for customers who are understanding. In your post, it sounds like you come across as threatening a lot. No one in costumer service responds to being threatened. In general, if someone came across as threatening to me, I gave them the least amount of service I could to avoid being in trouble.
 

WDWCP

New Member
I've been to WDW on at least 15 different trips and stayed on-property roughly 10 of those times. The ONLY thing that I've ever experienced at the hotels that wasn't totally up to par was at the PoP Century. Even this is just a REALLY minor thing.

We were there with my in-laws and they were in an adjoining room with us. Their sink would make a howling sound every time you turned it on. The first couple of times it was quite annoying, but after that, it became a running joke between us all. We never even bothered to call the front desk about it as it always just made us laugh and added to our experiences.

We then told the front desk about it when we checked out as the next guests in the room might not find the same humor in it that we did.

The front desk guy took 10% off our TOTAL hotel bill for both rooms!!!

Totally unexpected!!
 

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