Solar power farm coming to Disney

GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
ford91exploder said:
Well since deregulation the cost of power in constant dollars has gone up by 400% and grid reliability is approaching third world standards, and since there is no incentive to BUILD capacity only to price gouge there is no incentive to fix this as the generating companies driver is now to 'Maximize Shareholder Return' NOT 'Keep the Lights on no matter WHAT'

I've got a Kohler 20RZ on site which in years past would log more 'exercise' time than loaded time but so far this year we have about 10 days of runtime.

Yeah I think the old 'inefficient' days worked out better as a customer yeah 'Wall St was cut out of the deal except when construction bonds were needed.

Some things, Not many to be sure but some things do work out better in the aggregate under government control and/or regulation. Infrastructure being one of them.
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Here's the problem. You are looking at the total retail cost of electricity. There are 3 components to the price of electricity:
  1. Generation - Power plant owners produce electricity and sell it on the wholesale market at wholesale prices
  2. Distribution - This is the grid itself. The poles and wires used to flow power to end customers.
  3. Retail - The customer facing entity that bills customers.
When they de-regulated the electric industry they only de-regulated generation and in some states retail. The distribution part of the equation is still regulated everywhere. I can assure you that wholesale power prices are lower today than they were 20 years ago prior to de-regulation. That's a fact. Even in New England and NH. If your electric bill is really up 400% since de-regulation (which seems really high) it's not the cost of wholesale power (the de-regulated piece) that's driving it, its the cost of distribution (the piece that is still regulated). So really it's the regulated side of the business that is driving your higher bills. Here's an article from Forbes from a few years ago talking about this exact dynamic. It's 2 years old, but I can tell you from my daily job that wholesale power prices have not gone up substantially since 2013 except for winter 2014 during the polar vortex, but that was driven directly by nat gas prices and scarcity in extreme cold. Winter 2015 didn't see prices anywhere near the 2014 levels. It was pretty much an anomaly,

http://www.forbes.com/sites/william...regulation-delivers-lower-electricity-prices/

The problem is that this has become a political issue and hot button topic in some areas. One that's lazy, but easy to make. It's easy for some politician to grab a percentage increase in electric bills over a given time period and blame de-regulation. They blame de-regulation for higher bills and the public hears this and says, "yep, my bill is higher than it was 20 years ago...must be the reason." It's deceptive and they know it, but that's politics. No way are they going to address the issue with the distribution system. Big utilities with lots of political contributions to make are not who you want to attack when running for election.

As far as grid reliability...that's an issue with the owner of the grid. The regulated utility. Having an Independent System Operator and a more diverse choice of generation assets actually helps make the grid more reliable.
 
ford91exploder

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
GoofGoof said:
Here's the problem. You are looking at the total retail cost of electricity. There are 3 components to the price of electricity:
  1. Generation - Power plant owners produce electricity and sell it on the wholesale market at wholesale prices
  2. Distribution - This is the grid itself. The poles and wires used to flow power to end customers.
  3. Retail - The customer facing entity that bills customers.
When they de-regulated the electric industry they only de-regulated generation and in some states retail. The distribution part of the equation is still regulated everywhere. I can assure you that wholesale power prices are lower today than they were 20 years ago prior to de-regulation. That's a fact. Even in New England and NH. If your electric bill is really up 400% since de-regulation (which seems really high) it's not the cost of wholesale power (the de-regulated piece) that's driving it, its the cost of distribution (the piece that is still regulated). So really it's the regulated side of the business that is driving your higher bills. Here's an article from Forbes from a few years ago talking about this exact dynamic. It's 2 years old, but I can tell you from my daily job that wholesale power prices have not gone up substantially since 2013 except for winter 2014 during the polar vortex, but that was driven directly by nat gas prices and scarcity in extreme cold. Winter 2015 didn't see prices anywhere near the 2014 levels. It was pretty much an anomaly,

http://www.forbes.com/sites/william...regulation-delivers-lower-electricity-prices/

The problem is that this has become a political issue and hot button topic in some areas. One that's lazy, but easy to make. It's easy for some politician to grab a percentage increase in electric bills over a given time period and blame de-regulation. They blame de-regulation for higher bills and the public hears this and says, "yep, my bill is higher than it was 20 years ago...must be the reason." It's deceptive and they know it, but that's politics. No way are they going to address the issue with the distribution system. Big utilities with lots of political contributions to make are not who you want to attack when running for election.

As far as grid reliability...that's an issue with the owner of the grid. The regulated utility. Having an Independent System Operator and a more diverse choice of generation assets actually helps make the grid more reliable.
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Sorry but the major power generators filed for a rate increase of between 27% and 40% this winter in my state, Distribution costs have gone up as well and the run logs from the generator show a large increase in total outages.

The power monitors that run at my place show voltage sagging to as low as 105 volts routinely even now, In the past voltage has run pretty consistently at 118-123 volts.

I've got data to back up my claims, The reality is that in the 'competitive' grid environment grid reliability is rapidly approaching third world levels, We are already being warned about rolling outages and brownouts this summer. I'm getting really tired of replacing UPS batteries because the UPS systems are frequently in BOOST state because of voltage drops and frequency pulls.

I know you are in the industry and need to present it in it's best light however as someone in the data center business and as a residential customer the power industry is going backward fast, because based on monitoring in data centers and elsewhere power is becoming less reliable not more.
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
ford91exploder said:
Sorry but the major power generators filed for a rate increase of between 27% and 40% this winter in my state, Distribution costs have gone up as well and the run logs from the generator show a large increase in total outages.

The power monitors that run at my place show voltage sagging to as low as 105 volts routinely even now, In the past voltage has run pretty consistently at 118-123 volts.

I've got data to back up my claims, The reality is that in the 'competitive' grid environment grid reliability is rapidly approaching third world levels, We are already being warned about rolling outages and brownouts this summer. I'm getting really tired of replacing UPS batteries because the UPS systems are frequently in BOOST state because of voltage drops and frequency pulls.

I know you are in the industry and need to present it in it's best light however as someone in the data center business and as a residential customer the power industry is going backward fast, because based on monitoring in data centers and elsewhere power is becoming less reliable not more.
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In a de-regulated market you can't file for rate increases. That's part of the regulated world. The wholesale price for power is set by the market. A power plant is paid the market clearing price and plants are dispatched based on economic merit. There is no going to rate payers for relief. I'm not sure we're even talking about the same thing at this point.

Any issues with grid realiability would also be related to the regulated side of the business. The transmission system is not deregulated. I get that you have issues with the way the system works up there, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree blaming it all on deregulation.
 
jakeman

jakeman

Well-Known Member
George said:
I've got the solution right in my basement: SoWoT (S'load of Wildebeest on Treadmills). Since I've already done all the developmental work, I can tell you that a ratio of 23 wildebeest to 11 treadmills works best. If you discount the cost of wildebeest feed, treadmill maintenance, wildebeest damage, and the inconvenience of 14 times a day floor cleanups, all your energy will be free. I will impart some expertise at no cost to you. First, don't get a mixed gender herd. They don't seem very responsive to sex ed classes. Second, don't get an all male herd.....basement damage out the old wazoo to say the least. An all female herd is the way to go. I'll tell you how to get those ladies moving on the treadmill and how to wire your house if you subscribe to my to my "BPNL (Beest Power News Letter)."
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Apologies as I'm late to this post, but I recently purchased a full SoWoT set up. All female as recommended.

The females have been...um...affectionate towards each other. I seem to remember an article in a past newsletter regarding this issue with zebras.

Any advice you could give to resolve this issue would be great.
 
George

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
jakeman said:
Apologies as I'm late to this post, but I recently purchased a full SoWoT set up. All female as recommended.

The females have been...um...affectionate towards each other. I seem to remember an article in a past newsletter regarding this issue with zebras.

Any advice you could give to resolve this issue would be great.
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In the case of the wildebeest power station, "a happy herd produces more wattage" as they say in our industry, so no problems at all. I believe the issue with the zebras turned out to be quite controversial and we have been told in no uncertain terms to never mention that again.
 
jakeman

jakeman

Well-Known Member
George said:
In the case of the wildebeest power station, "a happy herd produces more wattage" as they say in our industry, so no problems at all. I believe the issue with the zebras turned out to be quite controversial and we have been told in no uncertain terms to never mention that again.
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Do you provide regulators for surges in power that usually occur after the wildebeest get into the box wine?
 
SeaCastle

SeaCastle

Well-Known Member
A quick update on this for clarification's sake: the farm will be - as guessed earlier - in the northeast corner of the EPCOT Resorts Blvd/World Drive intersection along World Drive.

192yp2.png
 
dstrawn9889

dstrawn9889

Well-Known Member
they missed out having the monorail run beside it for more pictures... all you are gonna get now is a quick snap (of the aux bank of solar, not the mickey image itself...) outside of LH of forward motion on the way back to TTC... the inbound rail would be blocked by out bound rail and possibly another monorail itself, depending on dispatch
 
dstrawn9889

dstrawn9889

Well-Known Member
and they seem to be placing it on top of an existing staging location... unless these cans are holding the cells themselves and they have been waiting for a proper CoW and platt to begin
 
ABQ

ABQ

Well-Known Member
I wonder if cars driving down World Drive, north, will even be able to make out the shape of the solar farm. Unless that area is well below grade, I don't think it will be obvious. Which may be a good thing, get enough accidents at the sign entering the park.
 
danlb_2000

danlb_2000

Premium Member
SeaCastle said:
A quick update on this for clarification's sake: the farm will be - as guessed earlier - in the northeast corner of the EPCOT Resorts Blvd/World Drive intersection along World Drive.

192yp2.png
Click to expand...

Do you know if the permits have been filed for this? I have been looking for it on the SFWMD site, but haven't seen anything yet.
 

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