Soarin' Expansion and new Soarin' Around the World film

[Mike C]

1. Higher attendance at Epcot compared to DCA
2. Different demographics. DLR has a much higher percentage of frequent guests who don't go on every ride every time. WDW tends to have a greater percentage of one time or infrequent guests to try to hit every ride every time (especially the headliners). Most everyone who walks into the gates at Epcot seeks to ride Soarin' in a given day -- adding other great rides doesn't change that, it just meets that every person will want to ride Soarin', Test Track and whatever awesome Imagination or whatever ride is added.

I don't buy this excuse. If a major ride goes down in any of these parks, the lines for the other attractions just go up. If epcot had more high end draw attractions FP+ would be distributed better since people would have to make a choice.

 

[Travel Junkie]

1. Higher attendance at Epcot compared to DCA
2. Different demographics. DLR has a much higher percentage of frequent guests who don't go on every ride every time. WDW tends to have a greater percentage of one time or infrequent guests to try to hit every ride every time (especially the headliners). Most everyone who walks into the gates at Epcot seeks to ride Soarin' in a given day -- adding other great rides doesn't change that, it just meets that every person will want to ride Soarin', Test Track and whatever awesome Imagination or whatever ride is added.

If the TEA numbers are to be believed the average day at Epcot is roughly 30,000. Based on 1,500 riders and hour (rough guess on capacity for easy math) Soarin has a daily capacity of 18,000. A very large percentage of Epcot guests on any given day do not ride Soarin.

Meanwhile you have several rides at Epcot that only fill a fraction of their potential daily capacity. The same thing exists between the four parks. MK is so crowded because that is where all the demand is. Create demand at the other 3 parks and MK isn’t so jammed. Create more demand at Epcot and Soarin isn’t as jammed.

 

[Figment2005]

I don't buy this excuse. If a major ride goes down in any of these parks, the lines for the other attractions just go up. If epcot had more high end draw attractions FP+ would be distributed better since people would have to make a choice.

I think a poll is in order, now I just need to figure out how to post one.

Edit* poll created under general discussion.

 

[doctornick]

If the TEA numbers are to be believed the average day at Epcot is roughly 30,000. Based on 1,500 riders and hour (rough guess on capacity for easy math) Soarin has a daily capacity of 18,000. A very large percentage of Epcot guests on any given day do not ride Soarin.

Meanwhile you have several rides at Epcot that only fill a fraction of their potential daily capacity. The same thing exists between the four parks. MK is so crowded because that is where all the demand is. Create demand at the other 3 parks and MK isn’t so jammed. Create more demand at Epcot and Soarin isn’t as jammed.

I think you've just argued for expanding Soarin' not against it. If a whole bunch of people who go into Epcot do not ride Epcot and it is clearly popular (running out of FP+ and having long waits) then more people would ride it if capacity increased. There are likely a significant number of disappointed guests who want to ride Soarin' on a given day, but do not do so.

If you build other high demand rides, that simply means that those 18,000 guests riding Soarin' (and the 12,000 guests that don't ride it) will have alternatives to riding Soarin'. But why wouldn't they ride Soarin' and those other rides?

There's nothing wrong with expanding capacity to an existing ride and adding new rides. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[jakeman]

There's nothing wrong with expanding capacity to an existing ride and adding new rides. They are not mutually exclusive.

I'm jumping in here midstream, but I think the issue may be the perception that at this time they are mutually exclusive to Disney.

I think had there been a new attraction announced along with the Soarin expansion the angst would be much less.

 

[dstrawn9889]

If the TEA numbers are to be believed the average day at Epcot is roughly 30,000. Based on 1,500 riders and hour (rough guess on capacity for easy math) Soarin has a daily capacity of 18,000. A very large percentage of Epcot guests on any given day do not ride Soarin.

Meanwhile you have several rides at Epcot that only fill a fraction of their potential daily capacity. The same thing exists between the four parks. MK is so crowded because that is where all the demand is. Create demand at the other 3 parks and MK isn’t so jammed. Create more demand at Epcot and Soarin isn’t as jammed.

Attraction type IMAX-type hang glider
Manufacturer Dynamic Structures
Designer Walt Disney Imagineering
Music Jerry Goldsmith
Height 80 ft (24 m)
Vehicles 6 in two theaters
Riders per vehicle Alpha 27, Bravo 33, Charlie 27
Participants per group 87 per theater
Duration 4:51
Height restriction 40 in (102 cm)
Presented by Patrick Warburton
Film speed 48 frames per second

so 87 per theater, at an average cycle time of 10 minutes.... is 1044 /hr at 12 hours open / day - 12528 a day give or take

 

[dstrawn9889]

Attraction type IMAX-type hang glider
Manufacturer Dynamic Structures
Designer Walt Disney Imagineering
Music Jerry Goldsmith
Height 80 ft (24 m)
Vehicles 6 in two theaters
Riders per vehicle Alpha 27, Bravo 33, Charlie 27
Participants per group 87 per theater
Duration 4:51
Height restriction 40 in (102 cm)
Presented by Patrick Warburton
Film speed 48 frames per second

so 87 per theater, at an average cycle time of 10 minutes.... is 1044 /hr at 12 hours open / day - 12528 a day give or take

and add a theater ---- 18792 a day

 

[Goofyernmost]

IF that's the case then why is it much more dispersed at California Adventure, or why do wait times shoot up for other attractions, say if, Space Mountain were down. Less places for people to go, means longer waits, period.

To some extent, that's true, but considering the fact that Epcot is so big, and there are so many places to be in it at any given time, the reason why that line is long is because people want to see it. The lines are long there even when they aren't at any other one. Would it help? Sure, but, it isn't the overriding reason that it has a long line. The reason is that it is a very popular ride and it is a slow loading, slow turnover attraction. Adding to it will help the situation where as just adding other attractions will not significantly alter that one. It will still be popular and there will still be a boat load of people that want to ride it.

Peter Pan is a good example of that. Back in the middle ages there was no FP, the ride is a continuous moving people eater. The ride vehicles are limited to two, maybe three (with a small child) and it has always been a long line. It is popular and was popular and no amount of additional rides in the park ever seems to change that. The only way to change that is to add to capacity. Before you say it, FP's added to the length of the standby line, but, it didn't add to the number of people that want to ride it. FP just made it a bigger deal to those without one.

 

[Mike S]

I'm jumping in here midstream, but I think the issue may be the perception that at this time they are mutually exclusive to Disney.

I think had there been a new attraction announced along with the Soarin expansion the angst would be much less.

Exactly. Disney is giving us no reason to expect new rides in Epcot except the Frozen refurd which will have even WORSE capacity than Soarin' (anyone else see the stupidity of this? Disney sees a need to expand capacity at Soarin' but is also putting Frozen in an absolutely horrible location capacity wise. 1 step forward, 2 steps back). DHS has rumors that things will be coming years from now but that's about it.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

But Epcot was not really built to be a place crammed with rides. It's beauty, appeal and charm are really attained from it's innovative atmosphere and not it's ride type attractions. I'm all for adding the third theater. To build the number of rides that DCA has in Epcot means to litter World Showcase with kiddy rides.

I really disagree in part. EPCOT Center had amazing attractions in an innovative atmosphere. It was a both/and situation. And not a toon in sight. I still think there's other ways to add attractions in WS without a toon tie in.

 

[Travel Junkie]

I think you've just argued for expanding Soarin' not against it. If a whole bunch of people who go into Epcot do not ride Epcot and it is clearly popular (running out of FP+ and having long waits) then more people would ride it if capacity increased. There are likely a significant number of disappointed guests who want to ride Soarin' on a given day, but do not do so.

If you build other high demand rides, that simply means that those 18,000 guests riding Soarin' (and the 12,000 guests that don't ride it) will have alternatives to riding Soarin'. But why wouldn't they ride Soarin' and those other rides?

There's nothing wrong with expanding capacity to an existing ride and adding new rides. They are not mutually exclusive.

You assume those thousands of people want to go on Soarin and are shut out. You often see Soarin at the top of any overrated attraction list. Plenty of people get by just fine without going on it.
Thousands of people do not go on any WDW ride. What’s a must ride to one person is an overrated attraction to another. Should we increase the capacity of every single attraction?
And yes if WDW would add capacity to existing attractions AND added attractions than we wouldn’t’ be having this conversation. The problem is we have an either or situation. They are adding capacity to existing attractions instead of adding attractions.

 

[doctornick]

I'm jumping in here midstream, but I think the issue may be the perception that at this time they are mutually exclusive to Disney.

I think had there been a new attraction announced along with the Soarin expansion the angst would be much less.

Totally agree. But that's what we should be berating Disney for -- why aren't they adding new attractions to Epcot or replacing underused/unpopular ones (*cough* Imagination as opposed to Maelstrom)? Adding capacity to Soarin' is a good thing in isolation, it just should be done in conjunction with proper investments elsewhere in the park.

 

[DisDan]

Exactly. Disney is giving us no reason to expect new rides in Epcot except the Frozen refurd which will have even WORSE capacity than Soarin' (anyone else see the stupidity of this? Disney sees a need to expand capacity at Soarin' but is also putting Frozen in an absolutely horrible location capacity wise. 1 step forward, 2 steps back). DHS has rumors that things will be coming years from now but that's about it.

Well depending on the updated ride track, vehicles, and queue the Frozen ride could potentially have a much higher capacity than Maelstrom did. Though since we still do not know anything about the Frozen ride it's all speculation at this point.

 

[doctornick]

Well depending on the updated ride track, vehicles, and queue the Frozen ride could potentially have a much higher capacity than Maelstrom did. Though since we still do not know anything about the Frozen ride it's all speculation at this point.

Yeah, that kinda reminds me that I'm surprised how little we know about the Frozen ride. I would have thought by now that some specific details would have leaked.

 

[Mike S]

Well depending on the updated ride track, vehicles, and queue the Frozen ride could potentially have a much higher capacity than Maelstrom did. Though since we still do not know anything about the Frozen ride it's all speculation at this point.

One thing that seems definite is that the track isn't being touched at all. It will be the same layout and rooms with the only change that has been speculated is a new load/unload area in the old unload area and a new scene in the old load area. I don't know how that would increase capacity by much. A bigger queue wouldn't affect how many people go through the ride, just how much the line would be kept from spilling into walkways. I'm guessing it's highly likely the boats will hold the same amount of people as before.

 

[DisDan]

One thing that seems definite is that the track isn't being touched at all. It will be the same layout and rooms with the only change that has been speculated is a new load/unload area in the old unload area and a new scene in the old load area. I don't know how that would increase capacity by much. A bigger queue wouldn't affect how many people go through the ride, just how much the line would be kept from spilling into walkways. I'm guessing it's highly likely the boats will hold the same amount of people as before.

Well I thought someone mentioned that the ride "track" would be extended and changed in some way so as include some additional show scenes and what not. Though I don't remember where I heard that.

 

[Mike S]

Well I thought someone mentioned that the ride "track" would be extended and changed in some way so as include some additional show scenes and what not. Though I don't remember where I heard that.

You most likely previously heard the part I mentioned of a new scene being built in the old load area and remembered incorrectly. It happens. It could've also been speculation from people who aren't insiders in which case it's been shot down numerous times since the permits for this don't show anything that suggests an expansion of the ride.

 

[erasure fan1]

Totally agree. But that's what we should be berating Disney for -- why aren't they adding new attractions to Epcot or replacing underused/unpopular ones (*cough* Imagination as opposed to Maelstrom)? Adding capacity to Soarin' is a good thing in isolation, it just should be done in conjunction with proper investments elsewhere in the park.

I agree 100%. I would have just gone about it different than Disney has/is. I would have added rides first to make sure the park is set, then expanded the existing rides after if still really needed. People do not complain all that much because space mountain has crazy wait times. Why? there is so much else to do. I feel the same way about Soarin and TSMM, it just wouldn't be as big of a deal if you had more to choose from. You could make an argument for a heck of a lot more rides getting expansions, but overall that shouldn't be the answer.

 

[doctornick]

I agree 100%. I would have just gone about it different than Disney has/is. I would have added rides first to make sure the park is set, then expanded the existing rides after if still really needed. People do not complain all that much because space mountain has crazy wait times. Why? there is so much else to do. I feel the same way about Soarin and TSMM, it just wouldn't be as big of a deal if you had more to choose from. You could make an argument for a heck of a lot more rides getting expansions, but overall that shouldn't be the answer.

The thing is that both Soarin' and TSMM have particular poor capacity. A lot of other "popular" rides at WDW have shorter wait times simply because they have far more capacity and more people are able to ride (and do so more quickly). That's the thing for me -- adding extra capacity for Soarin'/TSMM is getting them to the level of capacity that they should be at based on park attendance/demographics.

But just because those rides are being expanded to a level more balanced with demand doesn't mean that Disney shouldn't also be adding new experiences to those parks.

 

[erasure fan1]

That's the thing for me -- adding extra capacity for Soarin'/TSMM is getting them to the level of capacity that they should be at based on park attendance/demographics.

And maybe that is the bigger problem. Disney should have been able to see the need for capacity in the 2 parks but they went ahead and went cheap by not giving the rides the capacity they should have.