Soarin' and The Land changes - what is your opinion?

[Wckd Queen]

The difference is that you design things that work right with the story and theme and do them in a fantastic way. Then the business part would take care of itself because you created a product so unique, thought provoking, and entertaining that NO ONE ELSE HAD! The business aspect to Walt was always secondary to the dream and imagination. Now it is the other way around. How can we dream up more business and cash first. Everything else is secondary. The philosophy mentioned first above is what made the Disney business so successful, and why the new philosophy has made Disney less and less successful. It's why more and more people are scratching their heads and saying that doesn't work together or seem right or it seems cheap and thoughtless. It's why Roy is fighting to revive the company from the suits that have a "myopic" view of the Disney parks(and all other Disney enterprises) as a cash register only and have missed the imagination, originality, and creativity that set Disney above the rest and provided quite well for the "business" returns. And that's a FACT!

Your post has me scratching my head. Not so sure about your "facts" as I dont see more and more people saying things dont work or seem cheap and thoughtless. In fact, quite to the contrary. I again reference the poll at the top of this thread. 80% of the folks who have responded say that they like what they see with the Land renovations. The only folks I see who dont appreciate the update are a certain few who keep attempting to sway the 80% majority over to their point of view.

In order for a business to run, and be run successfully, it must identify its core audience and create a product that the majority of that audience will want and then be able to turn a profit from that product. I think there are a few folks out there who have been projecting their ideals onto Disney for so long that they have lost sight of the simple fact that, regardless of what they choose to believe, first and foremost, Disney is indeed a business.

 

[thedisneyfan]

Easy...It's at WDW. As a stand-alone park, without the rest of the resort to help draw guests, Epcot would be nowhere near the #3 spot.

Then your whole argument and those similar are that MGM and DAK suck! They obviously wouldn't be any good on their own since they fall behind the horrible and lowly EPCOT! (which of course only survives as #3 nationally because its at WDW!) Additionaly EPCOT has always stayed at #3 nationally even during the times without MS and TT and Soarin! Apparently a lot of boring people had nothing better to do with their boring time than to go to the boring EPCOT. Could it be that EPCOT then and now represents great entertainment that focuses on world culture and futuristic themes that many people love then and now, but they don't necessarily love everything at EPCOT?

It's amazing how many people want to take issue with those of us who are disappointed with some of the aspects of the LAND pavillion rehab and criticize us and call us negative express many negative thoughts about EPCOT itself: referring to it as "boring" and "out-dated" and "un-inspiring?" Could it be that I sense a tone of negativity there?

If everyone here on this thread is 100% happy with everything at WDW both old and new, then I'll spend by entire vacation in the Land pavillion's new and improved airport terminal.

I take it everyone in favor of the new land pavillion food court redesign loves Stitch, the redesign of Adventureland, Triceratops Spin and Primeval Whirl, the lack of attractions in many of the nations in World Showcase, Wonders of Life pavillion, Pooh, fastpass on most attractions......well the list could go on and on and on, but hopefully most of you got my point! (Just in case you're wondering I both liked some and disliked some of the things above)

This redesign (of the food court area) just doesn't suit me or my thought of the theme of the LAND pavillion, but that's my opinion. I may be in the minority, but my opinion (as well as those of the majority) is worthwhile and necessary to flush out every thought about this rehab and any and all future rehabs and/or new attractions and/or new programs!

 

[thedisneyfan]

Your post has me scratching my head. Not so sure about your "facts" as I dont see more and more people saying things dont work or seem cheap and thoughtless. In fact, quite to the contrary. I again reference the poll at the top of this thread. 80% of the folks who have responded say that they like what they see with the Land renovations. The only folks I see who dont appreciate the update are a certain few who keep attempting to sway the 80% majority over to their point of view.

In order for a business to run, and be run successfully, it must identify its core audience and create a product that the majority of that audience will want and then be able to turn a profit from that product. I think there are a few folks out there who have been projecting their ideals onto Disney for so long that they have lost sight of the simple fact that, regardless of what they choose to believe, first and foremost, Disney is indeed a business.

My fact of Walt's business philosophy is just that, just read enough biographies about him. Refer to previous threads as to whether or not some things at WDW have not been referred to exactly as what I said in my earlier post (including members who have positive views on this rehab). I don't deny that 79%+(okay being a bit cheeky) are postive with the looks of the new rehab here, but they are not so postive about something else. I'll say it again it's a matter of opinion. And again I'm not trying to sway any of the 79%+ to my viewpoint, I'm merely expressing my opinion as to this rehab, just as you are doing above! :animwink: If someone's opinion is swayed so be it, if not so be it! But I will make my point.....now what was I talking about?

 

[speck76]

The difference is that you design things that work right with the story and theme and do them in a fantastic way. Then the business part would take care of itself because you created a product so unique, thought provoking, and entertaining that NO ONE ELSE HAD!

Wrong....try again

This statement is not logical. It is the old "if we build it, they will come" mentality. Those days are over.

 

[Shaman]

Refer to previous threads as to whether or not some things at WDW have not been referred to exactly as what I said in my earlier post (including members who have positive views on this rehab). I don't deny that 79%+(okay being a bit cheeky) are postive with the looks of the new rehab here, but they are not so postive about something else.

The problem is...this thread directly deals with Soarin' and The Land pavilion...and according to the poll, it seems the changes have been a hit. Disney has done, and in many ways will continue to do dumb things...but if we're going to put the negative under a microscope, we must also acknowledge the good that is done and personally, I'll say again, The rehab of The Land, and the addition of Soarin' are both positive.

People know where I stand on other issues...but that is not what this particular thread is about.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Then your whole argument and those similar are that MGM and DAK suck! They obviously wouldn't be any good on their own since they fall behind the horrible and lowly EPCOT! (which of course only survives as #3 nationally because its at WDW!) Additionaly EPCOT has always stayed at #3 nationally even during the times without MS and TT and Soarin! Apparently a lot of boring people had nothing better to do with their boring time than to go to the boring EPCOT. Could it be that EPCOT then and now represents great entertainment that focuses on world culture and futuristic themes that many people love then and now, but they don't necessarily love everything at EPCOT?

There's no need to slam other parks to point out the shortcommings of the company. Clearly those parks arent done. It took the MK 20+ years to get Splash, BTMRR, Space Mountain or Pirates as well as a lotof other attractions. The patrks are never done.

As for attendance, Disney counts your attendance to a theme park based on which park you go to first. Granted, you may go to Epcot, MK & MGM all in one day, but the money & your attendance count goes to Epcot. It remains as #3 because more people go to MK first.

It's amazing how many people want to take issue with those of us who are disappointed with some of the aspects of the LAND pavillion rehab and criticize us and call us negative express many negative thoughts about EPCOT itself: referring to it as "boring" and "out-dated" and "un-inspiring?" Could it be that I sense a tone of negativity there?

Actually, its not the message, rather the tone and teh delivery of the message. As with your's, Its hard to respect what youre trying to say because you're being very condicending and acting like a 10-year-old. That turns people off.

If everyone here on this thread is 100% happy with everything at WDW both old and new, then I'll spend by entire vacation in the Land pavillion's new and improved airport terminal.

Its not an airport terminal. Ive flied in and out of 5 different airports in the past 2 months, and none of them look like the land pavilion. The quene from Soarin looks a bit like an airport terminal, but thats about it. Photos that i posted show that this looks nothing liek an aiport terminal.

I take it everyone in favor of the new land pavillion food court redesign loves Stitch, the redesign of Adventureland, Triceratops Spin and Primeval Whirl, the lack of attractions in many of the nations in World Showcase, Wonders of Life pavillion, Pooh, fastpass on most attractions......well the list could go on and on and on, but hopefully most of you got my point! (Just in case you're wondering I both liked some and disliked some of the things above)

Actually, at this point i'm trying to figure out what youre getting at.

This redesign (of the food court area) just doesn't suit me or my thought of the theme of the LAND pavillion, but that's my opinion. I may be in the minority, but my opinion (as well as those of the majority) is worthwhile and necessary to flush out every thought about this rehab and any and all future rehabs and/or new attractions and/or new programs!

Then simply say that. There's no need to be condecending or snotty about people not agreing with you. Clearly, 80+ percent dont. Trying to beat it into our heads that you're somehow right just is going to annoy people and cause you more grief than anything. I guarantee people wont respect your opinion with that approach; i sure know i dont.

I suggest you try a different approach.

 

[speck76]

It is a good thing the company is not as short-sighted as many of the critics of The Land pavilion.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Im just curious why no one has brough up the issue that it constantly is going 101. A brand spankin new ride, millions of dollars investerd, and it goes 101 several times a week.

 

[MrNonacho]

A brand spankin new ride, millions of dollars investerd, and it goes 101 several times a week.

Well, it still has two weeks before it's officially open.

Seems like the usual ironing out of the bugs to me.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I cant say more without risking some sources, but it keeps going 101. I'd think since its a cloned attraction, most of the bugs would have been worked out.

 

[wdwmagic]

I cant say more without risking some sources, but it keeps going 101. I'd think since its a cloned attraction, most of the bugs would have been worked out.

It isn't quite an exact clone. There are some new features to the ride mechanism, which delivers more precise control of the movement, along with other enhancements. I am sure it's just early teething issues which will get resolved by full opening.

 

[Shaman]

It isn't quite an exact clone. There are some new features to the ride mechanism, which delivers more precise control of the movement, along with other enhancements. I am sure it's just early teething issues which will get resolved by full opening.

Are the enhancements obvious? I swear it felt a bit different than Soarin' in Cali (maybe it was because its been a couple of years since I had ridden a Soarin')...for example is the screen bigger at the Epcot version than the one in DCA?

 

[figmentfan]

My only hope is that the addition of Soarin and the New Land Pavilion will only HELP Epcot!!

Soarin will be a big boost to Epcot, not only will it have a big advertisement campaign, but the "word of mouth" advertisement on property during the preview was HUGE!!!!!!!!

Enjoy the new Soarin attraction and the Land Pavilion.......now let's focus on Wonders of Life and fixing Imagination....................

 

[Bravesfn1]

Land Changes/Sunshine Food Court

I like the changes made, gives it a more modern look. Soarin is a great addition obviously! Food Rocks was bad! I would like to know what kind of food the Sunshine Food Court will sell. Will it be like it was before? I hope they add some knew and unique items rather than just the standard burger/fries, hot dog/pizza options that are everywhere in the parks. Last time I ate there I had a delicious wrap sandwich. MMM....delilicious wrap sandwich. Anybody know of what the'll be serving? Tell them to give us something unique!

 

[CTXRover]

^^ This link from wdwmagic's homepage provides a general overview of the new menu: http://www.wdwmagic.com/soarin.htm Thankfully, it isn't just another hamburger place. It might actually be a little "too" fancy sounding for some. We'll see how it works. I thinks it sounds pretty good. I already know what I want to try

 

[Bravesfn1]

Thanks CTXRover!


This is absolutely great news! By the way, what are you going to try when it opens?

 

[CTXRover]

^^Oh, no problem.

I'm probably going to try either the "rotisserie chicken on wild green tabbouleh with tzatziki (cucumber-yogurt sauce) and grilled flatbread" or the "Mongolian stir-fry beef with Asian vegetables". Both sound pretty good to me.

Btw, I see you're relatively new to posting here so in case you haven't received it yet, let me be the first to Welcome you to WDWMAGIC! We're always happy to see new faces.

 

[Bravesfn1]

Thank you CTXRover! You are the first person to officially welcome me to the site. I agree with you on the chicken, that is what I am eyeing as well!

 

[mousermerf]

Wonder of Life stays closed because Epcot does not need it to operate.

Epcot does not need the extra capacity to handle crowds. One reason several of MK's once seasonal areas (CoP included) have opened is because they are needed for guests.

Suppose Soarin' causes another boost along the lines of M:S and the park begins to steadily rise. Wonders will be the first thing to reopen.

When they say peak periods, they mean peak periods - during those days when Wonders was open there were several, if not 10's of thousands, more people in the park than on the average or slow day.

Imagine the park busy enough to have lines extending out of the Living Seas (already happening on busier days due to Turtle Talk), an actual wait for Imagination, and a several show wait for Energy. Those are the days when Wonders opened. So, even if you don't totally agree with Soarin' it may be the saving grace of the rest of the park.

 

[MiklCraw4d]

The Corrections

Epcot was #2, behind MK in 1982 because, aside from a whale over at Seaworld, it was the only other thing in Orlando :lookaroun

When I posted my original message, it occurred to me that someone would say this in reply. I had hoped, however, that my points would be taken with their obvious meaning intact. I should have had faith in the internet's ability to twist meaning in order to necessitate the use of eye-rolling smileys of condescention (my absolute favourite WDWmagic feature, by the way). While the smiley has certainly put me in my place with its rhetorical smackdown, I don't think this true but irrelevant fact negates at all the point of my actual argument.

Saying that EPCOT has been #2 since 1982 was a shorthand used to avoid having to list all the subsequent years it has also been #2. I could have said that it has been #2 since May 1, 1989, which would have been a more germane point to my argument, but that would also imply that it had not been #2 in the years prior. I simply hoped that I would be granted the assumption that I knew full well that WDW has not had four parks for the last 25 years.

Of course, one could say that when WDW was only a two-park destination there was less call to spend a full vacation there. At that time, other destinations would have had a greater pull on visitors than they do now. I didn't explore this idea, though, as it's no surprise that EPCOT managed to outdraw Sea World, Circus World, Boardwalk & Baseball, Cypress Springs, and Xanadu House of the Future.