So is the Hyperion Wharf project dead?

[jt04]

Oh I'm certain that I am quite informed of the situation and Pleasure Island is definitely ready to rise again from the ashes! It is too bad for you that the forum does not skew to your demographic of one, but facts are facts, and the fact is that the majority of guests who visit Pleasue Island to this day continue to ask when the Clubs are opening. All those in favor of a turnstiled nightclub district returning to the heart of Downtown Disney please post "Kungaloosh"!

Some days you eat the mouse.
Some days the mouse eats you.
But never give into the mouse without a fight!

KUNGALOOSH!​

Kunga-freakin-loosh!!!!!!!!!!

The response is overwhelming. :lol: Lee will always be the last hold-out.

 

[zulemara]

Oh I'm certain that I am quite informed of the situation and Pleasure Island is definitely ready to rise again from the ashes! It is too bad for you that the forum does not skew to your demographic of one, but facts are facts, and the fact is that the majority of guests who visit Pleasue Island to this day continue to ask when the Clubs are opening. All those in favor of a turnstiled nightclub district returning to the heart of Downtown Disney please post "Kungaloosh"!

Some days you eat the mouse.
Some days the mouse eats you.
But never give into the mouse without a fight!

KUNGALOOSH!​

care to share more??

 

[markc]

Why would you think I would have a problem with Sosa's or Raglin? If you were as informed as you let on you would know I support the return of the AC and the Comedy Warehouse and possibly 8-Trax. What Disney should not do is create another large dance club in the heart of DTD that caters to off duty CMs primarily. It is no place for a Mannequins or venues like the ones just removed from the island. Should there be such clubs on property? Possibly, just not at DTD.

Now try getting informed before making yourself look.......um........less than informed.

JT - just because I cant read between the lines of your garbled opinions, doesnt mean I'm mis-informed. It just means I cant read your mind as to what you're going to post next and I'm making incorrect inferences on your personal preferences and you're often conflicting posts. There's a big difference there. Mis-information with basic facts is your game.

To follow up on my accusations on you being mis-informed: CM's didnt make up the majority of the club go-ers. Mondays and Thursdays were the only days where off-duty CM's made up the majority of those there, due to the "CM" days. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, since it's been close to 3 years, but CM's did not get free access to PI on Fridays or Saturdays - those days were packed to the gills with tourists and locals. And Thursdays at Mannequins were mainly packed with locals, with tourists and CM's supplementing that mix.

DTD was more than a great place for those clubs - and the fact that it appears Disney is welcoming, and encouraging, 3rd parties to open them up as clubs only supports the theory that Disney was misguided to think that they could survive without them.

 

[flavious27]

There's an assumption being made here. These clubs are also closed; removing the signage is also a necessary step making sure visitors don't assume they're still in operation. There's no evidence that third-parties have been contracted to fill the locations as of yet....

Yup, but that doesn't matter. Like there is no proof that poly is get a dvc, but I'll believe it anyway.

I thought when someone said they were removing the letters they meant the "Pleasure Island" letters.

So I guess it is possible they have canceled HW and will allow third parties to reopen the clubs.

And then other third parties at DTD will begin to have problems, security will be added, the new PI will become a barrier to foot traffic at which point they may gate the area off and charge admission and then it will fail financially.

BRILLIANT! :lol:

Solution #1, chairlift through DTD

Solution #2, pathway disguised as additional retail space.

 

[jt04]

JT - just because I cant read between the lines of your garbled opinions, doesnt mean I'm mis-informed. It just means I cant read your mind as to what you're going to post next and I'm making incorrect inferences on your personal preferences and you're often conflicting posts. There's a big difference there. Mis-information with basic facts is your game.

To follow up on my accusations on you being mis-informed: CM's didnt make up the majority of the club go-ers. Mondays and Thursdays were the only days where off-duty CM's made up the majority of those there, due to the "CM" days. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, since it's been close to 3 years, but CM's did not get free access to PI on Fridays or Saturdays - those days were packed to the gills with tourists and locals. And Thursdays at Mannequins were mainly packed with locals, with tourists and CM's supplementing that mix.

DTD was more than a great place for those clubs - and the fact that it appears Disney is welcoming, and encouraging, 3rd parties to open them up as clubs only supports the theory that Disney was misguided to think that they could survive without them.

DTD has done fine without them even with an incomplete former PI. Add the HW concepts and the place will more than thrive. I know that it will work. Or they can make the ridiculous mistakes of the past.

Yup, but that doesn't matter. Like there is no proof that poly is get a dvc, but I'll believe it anyway.



Solution #1, chairlift through DTD

Solution #2, pathway disguised as additional retail space.

There is a much simpler and "elegant" solution and that is a pedestrian walk that encourages foot traffic and flows more naturally. Look at the hoops you are jumping through to 'force' a "PI" solution. The walk from the Marketplace to the WestEnd is really not that far and if there are compelling venues along the way it creates a natural momentum and energy that almost forces people to stroll from one end to the other. The effective boat transport is perfectly adequate for those with sore feet. Large dance venues aren't compatible with reatail areas that are primarily geared to families. It is a bad mix. Smaller more intimate night clubs that open later in the evening (see Europe) could meet the expectations of everyone. That is what is so perfect about the Hyperion Wharf concept. They have a solution sitting right in front of their faces but they may have a decision maker who is not the best at conceptualizing or even empathy as to what guests are looking for. Not a criticism, some folks just lack those qualities. Best solution.....

TRUST IMAGINEERING

 

[SMRT-1]

Trader Sam's looks to me like it would be a perfect fit for the AC building.....
Here is a fantastic interview with Walt Disney Imagineer Kyle Barnes:
http://themeparkadventure.com/Disneyland_Resort.htm#sams

 

[Mouse Detective]

Smaller more intimate night clubs that open later in the evening (see Europe) could meet the expectations of everyone. That is what is so perfect about the Hyperion Wharf concept.

From what we know, the Hyperion Wharf concept did not include any intimate night clubs, just a mix of more restaurants and retail. But there were very few interested third parties. So that is why we're at where we're at today, with Hyperion Wharf on hold and possibly canceled.


Trader Sams looks great!


Congaloosh!!

 

[TomHendricks]

Trader Joe's brother who opened a bar/restaurant?

Trader Sam's looks to me like it would be a perfect fit for the AC building.....
Here is a fantastic interview with Walt Disney Imagineer Kyle Barnes:
http://themeparkadventure.com/Disneyland_Resort.htm#sams

 

[SMRT-1]

Trader Joe's brother who opened a bar/restaurant?

no, this guy did....

 

[flavious27]

DTD has done fine without them even with an incomplete former PI. Add the HW concepts and the place will more than thrive. I know that it will work. Or they can make the ridiculous mistakes of the past.



There is a much simpler and "elegant" solution and that is a pedestrian walk that encourages foot traffic and flows more naturally. Look at the hoops you are jumping through to 'force' a "PI" solution. The walk from the Marketplace to the WestEnd is really not that far and if there are compelling venues along the way it creates a natural momentum and energy that almost forces people to stroll from one end to the other. The effective boat transport is perfectly adequate for those with sore feet. Large dance venues aren't compatible with reatail areas that are primarily geared to families. It is a bad mix. Smaller more intimate night clubs that open later in the evening (see Europe) could meet the expectations of everyone. That is what is so perfect about the Hyperion Wharf concept. They have a solution sitting right in front of their faces but they may have a decision maker who is not the best at conceptualizing or even empathy as to what guests are looking for. Not a criticism, some folks just lack those qualities. Best solution.....

TRUST IMAGINEERING

Hoops? I really don't see any hoops in having a new area built that would satisfy dtd management's desire to add more 3rd party vendors. Really if we want to lose any hoops, it would be to just move the marketplace to the west end.

 

[Lee]

Trader Sam's looks to me like it would be a perfect fit for the AC building.....

Of course it does...it's practically Adventurers Club without the characters.
That's fine, for what it is...but not the same.

 

[jt04]

From what we know, the Hyperion Wharf concept did not include any intimate night clubs, just a mix of more restaurants and retail. But there were very few interested third parties. So that is why we're at where we're at today, with Hyperion Wharf on hold and possibly canceled.


Trader Sams looks great!


Congaloosh!!

Pure heresay which conflicts with what both Disney and Steve have said.

There appeared to be a small club over what is now Apricot Lane in one of the concept drawings so you are wrong there too. Many restaurants at DTD have seperate lounges so that not a valid point either. Trader Sams would be even better at the Poly or Coranado or possibly CBR.

Hoops? I really don't see any hoops in having a new area built that would satisfy dtd management's desire to add more 3rd party vendors. Really if we want to lose any hoops, it would be to just move the marketplace to the west end.

It isn't that your idea wouldn't be welcome by everyone it is that it would likely be about 10 times the amount management would ever consider spending especially in this economy. Perhaps 25 years ago it might have had a chance.

 

[markc]

Pure heresay which conflicts with what both Disney and Steve have said.

Hyperion Wharf is cancelled - its not heresay a this point. All 3rd party vendors who were working on it (both the locally based architect firm whom WDI often outsources for 90% of their projects as well as some of the 3rd party construction firms) were told to stop mid-project and paid subsequently for their work as if the project were completed.

Trader Sams would be even better at the Poly or Coranado or possibly CBR.

You have to remember though - Trader Sams at Disneyland is practically in Downtown Disney. the Disneyland Hotel is on the edge of DTD next to the ESPN Zone...and thus its patrons are going to be a mix of hotel guests and DTD guests. I went to it the day it opened back in May, and most of its guest were those walking through Downtown Disney to go check it out (they have signs just outside the hotel in Downtown Disney pointing towards it) It wouldnt survive on it's own solely based on the hotel guests though. Putting it in the Coronado is a poor idea, considering they already have a nightclub in there that is only packed when a convention is in the hotel. Themewise, it'd fit in the Poly, but you'd be cannibalizing the lounge at Ohana to do so.

 

[jt04]

Hyperion Wharf is cancelled - its not heresay a this point. All 3rd party vendors who were working on it (both the locally based architect firm whom WDI often outsources for 90% of their projects as well as some of the 3rd party construction firms) were told to stop mid-project and paid subsequently for their work as if the project were completed.

So have they hired new contractors for the permits they just pulled with Orange County?



You have to remember though - Trader Sams at Disneyland is practically in Downtown Disney. the Disneyland Hotel is on the edge of DTD next to the ESPN Zone...and thus its patrons are going to be a mix of hotel guests and DTD guests. I went to it the day it opened back in May, and most of its guest were those walking through Downtown Disney to go check it out (they have signs just outside the hotel in Downtown Disney pointing towards it) It wouldnt survive on it's own solely based on the hotel guests though. Putting it in the Coronado is a poor idea, considering they already have a nightclub in there that is only packed when a convention is in the hotel. Themewise, it'd fit in the Poly, but you'd be cannibalizing the lounge at Ohana to do so.

If they added a TS type venue at Poly I would think the would then convert Ohana. Coronado could support another lounge that would carry an entirely different theme from the existing lounge possibly as it gets a lot of convention traffic. I just think both make more sense than DTD which may be reaching a saturation point with such offerings.

 

[SMRT-1]

Of course it does...it's practically Adventurers Club without the characters.
That's fine, for what it is...but not the same.

yes...it is a Tiki Room/Adventurers Club/Jungle Cruise mashup.

it is not the same...however, a solution for the current situation. and a cool one at that.

 

[wm49rs]

The permits filed for DtD listed BVCC as the contractor. Not applicable to third parties, or those they've contracted to work for them.....

 

[markc]

If they added a TS type venue at Poly I would think the would then convert Ohana. Coronado could support another lounge that would carry an entirely different theme from the existing lounge possibly as it gets a lot of convention traffic. I just think both make more sense than DTD which may be reaching a saturation point with such offerings.

Regarding the permits filed - those are just for the BVCC, which makes me think its just minor maintenance work to get the clubs back to their original state. As far as I know - bids have not gone out to any 3rd parties (either to the architect firms who work along side WDI or the 3rd party Construction firms) which would suggest extensive work on the level of a "Hyperion Wharf" revitalization is not what this work will be nor will the buildings be altered cosmetically or structurally.

Also - with Coronado, it cant support another lounge. Anybody whose been there, even during a major convention, can tell you that the two existing bars (both the outdoor bar and Rix) are almost never at capacity or near it. And Disney would never touch Ohana. It's a cash-cow for them. It has been for over 15 years, and thats one thing they dont want to touch. DtD really seems to be the only logical place.

 

[flavious27]

Pure heresay which conflicts with what both Disney and Steve have said.

There appeared to be a small club over what is now Apricot Lane in one of the concept drawings so you are wrong there too. Many restaurants at DTD have seperate lounges so that not a valid point either. Trader Sams would be even better at the Poly or Coranado or possibly CBR.



It isn't that your idea wouldn't be welcome by everyone it is that it would likely be about 10 times the amount management would ever consider spending especially in this economy. Perhaps 25 years ago it might have had a chance.

I think management has spent a big chunk of what those construction cost already by just having PI closed and most of the island empty along with the demo costs. I just threw up a quick mock, I think it would be better if there was a central walking path in the middle.

 

[flavious27]

You have to remember though - Trader Sams at Disneyland is practically in Downtown Disney. the Disneyland Hotel is on the edge of DTD next to the ESPN Zone...and thus its patrons are going to be a mix of hotel guests and DTD guests. I went to it the day it opened back in May, and most of its guest were those walking through Downtown Disney to go check it out (they have signs just outside the hotel in Downtown Disney pointing towards it) It wouldnt survive on it's own solely based on the hotel guests though. Putting it in the Coronado is a poor idea, considering they already have a nightclub in there that is only packed when a convention is in the hotel. Themewise, it'd fit in the Poly, but you'd be cannibalizing the lounge at Ohana to do so.

Well I made a mockup of a poly dvc before, there could be a restaurant modeled on the trader sam's design built next to the check-in area and across from the pool area.

I think that the trader sam's look would work better in this environment. The surroundings match not only the theme but also the size proportions.

 

[jt04]

Regarding the permits filed - those are just for the BVCC, which makes me think its just minor maintenance work to get the clubs back to their original state. As far as I know - bids have not gone out to any 3rd parties (either to the architect firms who work along side WDI or the 3rd party Construction firms) which would suggest extensive work on the level of a "Hyperion Wharf" revitalization is not what this work will be nor will the buildings be altered cosmetically or structurally.

Also - with Coronado, it cant support another lounge. Anybody whose been there, even during a major convention, can tell you that the two existing bars (both the outdoor bar and Rix) are almost never at capacity or near it. And Disney would never touch Ohana. It's a cash-cow for them. It has been for over 15 years, and thats one thing they dont want to touch. DtD really seems to be the only logical place.

We will see. Disney clearly stated they were improving the HW concept (perhaps with a new name) and not going back to what was.

Also, I always thought the "Rix" might be miscast for the resort it is in. Another point though related is that the lack of customers at the resort clubs such as Rix or Jelly Rolls indicates to me that there isn't overwhelming demand for such establishments on property. What does seem to work is heavily imagineered environments that immerse guests in a theme. That is why Raglin and Ohana and Trader Sams work in my opinion. That is why HW is a winning concept.

I think management has spent a big chunk of what those construction cost already by just having PI closed and most of the island empty along with the demo costs. I just threw up a quick mock, I think it would be better if there was a central walking path in the middle.

You do know that WoC cost 100 million to install, right? That likely does not include ongoing maintenance costs. PI never came close to being able to cover that kind of expense even in the early days.