Should EPCOT's dolphins be released?

[Future Guy]

What do y'all think? After the unfortunate incident at Sea World people are giving more thought to the question of how ethical it is to keep cetaceans in captivity. After all, dolphins and whales are highly social creatures adapted to life in the open sea. Keeping them in a tank, even a fairly largish one like the one in the Seas, has been compared to trapping a human in a phone booth.

I'm sure that the fish in the tank don't even realize they're not in the ocean. Fish are pretty stupid, after all. But dolphins are one of those creatures that seems to have more intelligence than it needs to simply survive. Assuming EPCOT's dolphins have the skills necessary to survive in the wild, is keeping them in captivity to amuse tourists really justifiable?

 

[Figment632]

What do y'all think? After the unfortunate incident at Sea World people are giving more thought to the question of how ethical it is to keep cetaceans in captivity. After all, dolphins and whales are highly social creatures adapted to life in the open sea. Keeping them in a tank, even a fairly largish one like the one in the Seas, has been compared to trapping a human in a phone booth.

I'm sure that the fish in the tank don't even realize they're not in the ocean. Fish are pretty stupid, after all. But dolphins are one of those creatures that seems to have more intelligence than it needs to simply survive. Assuming EPCOT's dolphins have the skills necessary to survive in the wild, is keeping them in captivity to amuse tourists really justifiable?

No Disney takes great care of them and a lot of the time theses creatures that are released back into the wild end up dying.

 

[DisneyJoe]

I know they had manatees in the Living Seas that they were nursing back to health and then they released them back to sea.

The dolphins are not just there for our amusement, much research is done with the dolphins every day.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v424/n6949/abs/nature01846.html

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/452131/disneys_dolphin_research_center_pioneers.html

http://www.saxton.org/florida/livingseas.php

 

[Figment1986]

there are times parks like Seaworld and Disney would rescue and nurse injured marinelife back to health, however these are treated differently and not domesticated unlike other marine life so they have a chance to return to the wild, but if the marine life gets too adapted to humans they cannot be released safely as they would just keep going back towards humans.

 

[Skylinecar1982]

Why is everyone in America so panicy? A killer whale actually killed a trainer oh my god we should release all animals in the zoos.

Someone fell down some stairs oh my god break down all stairs and install elevators every where.

 

[EpcotServo]

As a Conservationist, I feel like we're going crazy here. Really? We're fighting zoos and aquariums now? It's like the people who protested outside of Animal Kingdom before it opened: Crazy.

 

[SirGoofy]

As a Conservationist, I feel like we're going crazy here. Really? We're fighting zoos and aquariums now? It's like the people who protested outside of Animal Kingdom before it opened: Crazy.

Agreed.

It's important to keep some of these animals for study, but it's also important to remember that they are wild animals and are prone to things like what happened at Seaworld. The trainers of these animals know the risks.

 

[joel_maxwell]

Why is everyone in America so panicy? A killer whale actually killed a trainer oh my god we should release all animals in the zoos.

Someone fell down some stairs oh my god break down all stairs and install elevators every where.

Our society/culture here in the states always overreacts. It drives me nuts. I guess that goes along with over PC too. There are things that needed to change in the US, but over PC is killing me.

As a Conservationist, I feel like we're going crazy here. Really? We're fighting zoos and aquariums now? It's like the people who protested outside of Animal Kingdom before it opened: Crazy.

Me too. Im right there with you.

The only thing i get fired up about is Ringling Brothers Circus. There is lightyears of difference between most zoos, DAK and ringling brothers.

 

[joel_maxwell]

Agreed.

It's important to keep some of these animals for study, but it's also important to remember that they are wild animals and are prone to things like what happened at Seaworld. The trainers of these animals know the risks.

I was going to mention that too. I dont care if they were raised in captivity. They are and always will be wild animals.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Not at all. They are well cared for, and trained. Accidents happen, but it is not a call to go insane about things.

 

[wolf359]

As long as they don't get rid of the mamotees, I'll be okay.

 

[njDizFan]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article6973994.ece

I don't believe animals belong in cages...

and teaching them to use keyboards is for their benefit?

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

As long as they don't get rid of the mamotees, I'll be okay.

:lol:


Well done.

 

[Mystic]

Have you taken the Dolphins in Depth tour? If you had then you would know that it's impossible for Disney to release their dolphins back into the wild. They're actually better off in Disney's care. Once dolphins are socialized by humans it's impossible to break that imprinting, unlike manatees that can be weaned off human contact, dolphins cannot. Once a dolphin learns to look to humans for food, it loses the ability to hunt for itself and it isn't going to get the ability back, which means if you set them free, they will seek out human contact for food, which will ultimately lead to their deaths.

Also Disney does a great deal of research with their dolphins. They never do anything that is outside of natural behaviour and the dolphins participate only if they want to.

Before this turns into a huge debate, I recommend anyone who is concerned about Disney's dolphins to take the tour and see for yourself how well they're treated and learn about the life of a dolphin in captivity and what awaits them if they're ever released back into the wild.

 

[magicmaya]

It's a KILLER whale. It wasn't named that just because...

 

[Bairstow]

there are times parks like Seaworld and Disney would rescue and nurse injured marinelife back to health, however these are treated differently and not domesticated unlike other marine life so they have a chance to return to the wild, but if the marine life gets too adapted to humans they cannot be released safely as they would just keep going back towards humans.

Ok, so forgetting about the dolphins who have been in captivity so long they've forgotten how to feed themselves...

Should places like Sea World be allowed to take in more dolphins and whales that haven't yet forgotten how to feed themselves and teach those animals to be dependent on their keepers too?

Also, not sure how much I buy the "we're doing valuable research" argument. For one, it contradicts the argument that the dolphins are already too acclimated to captivity to be release. If you've already completely altered the animal's pattern of behavior, what good is research going to do besides tell you about how captive, trained animals behave? For another, I'd be be interested to see if Disney can point me to a peer-reviewed journal where there's published research that cites the Living Seas animals.

Personally though, I think we should continue to keep animals like this in zoos and tanks because they're fun to look at. As long as they're not mistreated, animals don't have the same right to freedom humans do. I just take issue with some of the bogus arguments defenders of captive cetaceans use to justify their livelihood. Sea World keeps dolphins and killer whales not to save them, not to make scientific discoveries, but because people will pay good money to see them. It creates jobs and makes kids smile. I'm OK with that. You should be too.

 

[joel_maxwell]

It's a KILLER whale. It wasn't named that just because...

Feral killer whales, also known as Orca's, are not considered a threat to humans. Mostly captive orca's are the threat to humans.

I have no scientific data to back me up on this, but I would say that some of the attacks are the mammals trying to play with their handlers. Some captive animals finally just snap and mentally go on a rampage probably due to being captive or a small incident that set them off.

I dont think it is because they are "killer" whales, I think that it is a combination of a wild animal in captivity, a 7 ton mammal showing affection towards their handlers and as a result hurting them, some wanting to play so on and so forth. As for the Seaworld recent indecent, I think the Orca was trying to play.

It just isnt Killer whales, I read a story of a dolphin getting spooked by a pregnant woman in the water and started attacking her.

It is a complex and delicate situation.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Grilled and served with a crisp salad would be better

 

[KJ1081]

Our society/culture here in the states always overreacts. It drives me nuts. I guess that goes along with over PC too. There are things that needed to change in the US, but over PC is killing me.

Me too. Im right there with you.

The only thing i get fired up about is Ringling Brothers Circus. There is lightyears of difference between most zoos, DAK and ringling brothers.

On a side note- I just want to say that contrary to popular belief, Ringling Bros takes very good care of their animals. I'm not affiliated with the circus, but the zoo I work for has worked with them in the past, and I was skeptical as well until I saw it with my own eyes. The animals are trained with positive reinforcement, receive excellent nutrition and veterinary care, and the amount of time each animal performer spends on the circuit is limited. They have an AMAZING facility in Florida which they use as a base camp, so to speak. All performers are rotated through here, ensuring that each recieves ample down-time before rejoining the show circuit. Retired performers are sent there to live out their days, although a select few with "fresh" genetics may go off to other zoos to participate in breeding programs- but this is determined by AZA and the Species Survival Plan. No zoological animals in captivity can be bred without AZA and SSP giving the order. As far as the Florida facility goes, I don't know all of the specifics for each species, but I know first hand their elephants are given ~50 acres/family group of open land, landscaped to mimic the savannah, much like DAK. Family groups that get along will have their territories combined, and therefore can roam and forage across vast expanses of uninterrupted land much like they would in the wild. They have other satellite facilities around the country for permanent retirement homes as well, for example lions, tigers, and other big cats go to Texas, but the Florida facility is the main one. Granted these animals do spend a considerable amount of time in close quarters, traveling, and performing, but at least they're given a chance to be animals once in a while, instead of being forced to perform day in and day out like many other small circuses and carnivals. I feel worse for the poor ponies forced to walk in small circles on a hub on spoke system, like at local fairs, as these animals never get a day off or a chance to roam free in a pasture. They spend their lives tied up inside or outside of a trailer with only 4-6 feet of room to move- that's the equivalent of perpetually keeping a Great Dane in a shepard-sized crate. Also, these carnival animals receive little to no veterinary care, inadequate nutrition, and as soon as they as unable to work- they're sold to slaughter. If any form of animal entertainment is to be attacked- start with carnival and fair animals. They have a far more miserable existince than any of the animals as DAK, Seaworld, etc. Sorry for the rant, lol.

 

[unkadug]

As long as they don't get rid of the mamotees, I'll be okay.

:lol:


Well done.

I was wondering if anyone else caught that!:lookaroun