Should Cars be Cancelled?

[CaptinEO]

Also, how does meatballs and spagetti make fun of Italians? Have you spent time in Italy? Everyone literally talked about their cousins and extended family is important. Everywhere we went had a variation of spagetti - a dish common for children.

Lets say for example there was a white America ride where all the songs are about loving guns and eating burgers and french fries. Or an African American ride where they sing about fried chicken. Regardless of your stance, in 2021 is this something people are OK with?

You can say that those cultures do enjoy those foods (and who wouldnt)? But, like I said, in a modern lens is this something people are fine with?

The whole character of Luigi is that he's an Italian stereotype, that's it. That's his entire character. The same can be said of Ramone.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Let's use some common sense. We should be able to discuss the latest target of cancel culture objectively and without being labeled racists if we disagree with the latest target. Open discussion and disagreement can and should be had. Disagreeing does not equate to being against giving marginalized voices a chance to be heard.

 

[SamusAranX]

It’s called headhunter territory and right before the first group of Africans is a bunch of skulls that are supposedly the people from the previous trip. Trader Sam sells skulls. Lots of skulls and spears suggest the tribe is creating hostility and violence, which isn’t a remotely accurate portrayal of African tribes, and it’s certainly not a good one either.

I’m not sure what your missing, and more importantly, why you’re trying to excuse it.

Um, what?

World's Most Dangerous People - Mursi Tribes In Africa | Reckon Talk

One of the most dangerous, unusual & aggressive tribe in the world is tribe Mursi living in a hard region of Ethiopia. “It’s better to die than live without killing” is the motto of Mursi men who in fact are all warriors.

www.reckontalk.com

Viewpoint: How tribalism stunts African democracy

Africa's democratic transition is back in the spotlight. The concern is no longer the stranglehold of autocrats, but the hijacking of democratic process by the tribal politics, argues Kenyan academic Calestous Juma.

www.bbc.com

https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=jams

Africa's Forever Wars

Why the continent's conflicts never end.

foreignpolicy.com

Of course, not every tribe is "violent"; nor does being African or a person of color automatically predispose one to violence.

But to say it isn't "remotely" accurate? Is not true. Because of a myriad of reasons, there is still tribes and/or levels of tribal violence in many nations and continents, and I don't mean just Africa (side note: per capita, i believe South America is the most dangerous continent currently). So depicting something that is actually still happening in our current society or in the past, in a ride, isn't inherently evil or stereotypical (from my perspective) . If the attackers were Vikings, would that be wrong? No, because many Scandinavian peoples were historically involved in a level of warfare and plundering. However, given this country and other colonial power's history in their treatment of different groups, I can empathize as to why some may find it problematic or insensitive.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Um, what?

World's Most Dangerous People - Mursi Tribes In Africa | Reckon Talk

One of the most dangerous, unusual & aggressive tribe in the world is tribe Mursi living in a hard region of Ethiopia. “It’s better to die than live without killing” is the motto of Mursi men who in fact are all warriors.

www.reckontalk.com

Viewpoint: How tribalism stunts African democracy

Africa's democratic transition is back in the spotlight. The concern is no longer the stranglehold of autocrats, but the hijacking of democratic process by the tribal politics, argues Kenyan academic Calestous Juma.

www.bbc.com

https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=jams

Africa's Forever Wars

Why the continent's conflicts never end.

foreignpolicy.com

Of course, not every tribe is "violent"; nor does being African or a person of color automatically predispose one to violence.

But to say it isn't "remotely" accurate? Is not true. Because of a myriad of reasons, there is still tribes and/or levels of tribal violence in many nations and continents, and I don't mean just Africa (side note: per capita, i believe South America is the most dangerous continent currently). So depicting something that is actually still happening in our current society or in the past, in a ride, isn't inherently evil or stereotypical (from my perspective) . If the attackers were Vikings, would that be wrong? No, because many Scandinavian peoples were historically involved in a level of warfare and plundering. However, given this country and other colonial power's history in their treatment of different groups, I can empathize as to why some may find it problematic or insensitive.

The problem is the wider assumptive default that native peoples are inherently dangerous. The Troubles is not described as a tribal conflict and a British Isles Cruise ride would not default to Ireland being the place where you must beware of the dangerous Irish who will get you, the civilizing conquerer.

 

[SamusAranX]

The problem is the wider assumptive default that native peoples are inherently dangerous. The Troubles is not described as a tribal conflict and a British Isles Cruise ride would not default to Ireland being the place where you must beware of the dangerous Irish who will get you, the civilizing conquerer.

like I said, I definitely can empathize with that perspective.
The fact that violent tribes and or tribal conflict do exist still in Africa, Amazon, and Asia and so on to me, render the portion of the ride as something that’s not inherently a negative cultural slight. But again, I can see why some see it that way.

The troubles is basic example of tribalism in all but name only. But if a ride existed where you were touring the bogs and moors, and had a scene of IRA underground fighters chasing you, would it be insensitive? No. Because it’s an accurate, historical depiction. And I don’t think people would get off the ride assuming all Irish folks are IRA members looking to shoot. All about context. Now if the ride was completely geared towards it. Sure it might affect someone consciously to stereotype Irish people. But jungle cruise is not entirely about violent natives.

 

[el_super]

The troubles is basic example of tribalism in all but name only. But if a ride existed where you were touring the bogs and moors, and had a scene of IRA underground fighters chasing you, would it be insensitive? No. Because it’s an accurate, historical depiction.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaa....?

I'll just say I strongly disagree with this.

 

[SamusAranX]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaa....?

I'll just say I strongly disagree with this.

Again, context would be key. If the whole ride was themed as that, definitely see an issue. But if it was a fictionalized journey through Ireland and it's culture and history (think the Maelstrom) would a brief scene like that really be a negative depiction? I don't feel so as it happened, and it existed.

Or did you mean my application of tribalism to the Troubles?

Either way, as i said, I am not entirely black and white on this. Again, I can see why some may feel its insensitive given colonial history and the abuses associated with it. I don't personally feel that way, but I don't dismiss those who see it differently out of hand

 

[Brer Oswald]

No. Just because they are cancelling something they shouldn’t be that you happen to like, doesn’t mean they should cancel something they also shouldn’t that you happen to not like.

All rationale is thrown out in favour of emotion.

 

[el_super]

Again, context would be key. If the whole ride was themed as that, definitely see an issue. But if it was a fictionalized journey through Ireland and it's culture and history (think the Maelstrom) would a brief scene like that really be a negative depiction? I don't feel so as it happened, and it existed.

I'm not Irish and i think the idea of depicting any race/culture has aggressive, in the context of a theme park attraction, makes me uncomfortable. Maybe if you were doing a larger presentation akin to American Experience or Golden Dreams, where you can explore a little bit more of the context, MAYBE it would work. But a 7 second vignette or a moving ride?

The key to this would be, whether someone from that culture, wants to tell that story. As an outsider, it wouldn't be fair for me to decide how the story of Ireland should or should not be told. Quite frankly, whether it was historically accurate or not, deciding what to depict can still have racial connotations.

 

[Robbiem]

do people see a difference between the stereotypes in cars and other movies like the aristocats, mary poppins etc?

genuine question I’m interested what people think and why

 

[Brer Oswald]

do people see a difference between the stereotypes in cars and other movies like the aristocats, mary poppins etc?

genuine question I’m interested what people think and why

There’s a good chunk of people on both extremes that don’t see the difference.

There are some that think because certain stereotypes aren’t bad, then none are. There are others that think because some some stereotypes are unfavourable, all are equally unfavourable.

Like all things, it isn’t that black and white. Although I’m sure many do this for reasons beyond the actual content.

 

[SamusAranX]

I'm not Irish and i think the idea of depicting any race/culture has aggressive, in the context of a theme park attraction, makes me uncomfortable. Maybe if you were doing a larger presentation akin to American Experience or Golden Dreams, where you can explore a little bit more of the context, MAYBE it would work. But a 7 second vignette or a moving ride?

The key to this would be, whether someone from that culture, wants to tell that story. As an outsider, it wouldn't be fair for me to decide how the story of Ireland should or should not be told. Quite frankly, whether it was historically accurate or not, deciding what to depict can still have racial connotations.

I guess our disconnect, is the "negativity" aspect. All cultures and nations have history, both good and bad, so we can't be afraid to briefly examine or incorporate those aspects in our cultural consciousness. it also depends on the event or mistake(s) being depicted. I think we also lose sight when it comes to things like Maelstrom and Jungle Cruise, it's not meant to be a truly "historical", in depth examination. For jungle tribes, they existed, there were and are violent ones, and yes, many of them happen to be from Africa, South America, Polynesia, etc.

There were violent ethnic and tribal groups of those who are white. Barbarians of the early hundreds AD, the Scandinavians etc. Conversely, Africa had civilizations of grand scale that unfortunately don't get taught or examined as much as I think they should. Civilizations that may have developed further had it not been for foreign invasions and oppression. which is why I empathize, as they did not get to "write" their own history, if that makes sense.

Agree to disagree. i think both perspectives are valid

 

[Sailor310]

Um, what?

World's Most Dangerous People - Mursi Tribes In Africa | Reckon Talk

One of the most dangerous, unusual & aggressive tribe in the world is tribe Mursi living in a hard region of Ethiopia. “It’s better to die than live without killing” is the motto of Mursi men who in fact are all warriors.

www.reckontalk.com

Viewpoint: How tribalism stunts African democracy

Africa's democratic transition is back in the spotlight. The concern is no longer the stranglehold of autocrats, but the hijacking of democratic process by the tribal politics, argues Kenyan academic Calestous Juma.

www.bbc.com

https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=jams

Africa's Forever Wars

Why the continent's conflicts never end.

foreignpolicy.com

Of course, not every tribe is "violent"; nor does being African or a person of color automatically predispose one to violence.

But to say it isn't "remotely" accurate? Is not true. Because of a myriad of reasons, there is still tribes and/or levels of tribal violence in many nations and continents, and I don't mean just Africa (side note: per capita, i believe South America is the most dangerous continent currently). So depicting something that is actually still happening in our current society or in the past, in a ride, isn't inherently evil or stereotypical (from my perspective) . If the attackers were Vikings, would that be wrong? No, because many Scandinavian peoples were historically involved in a level of warfare and plundering. However, given this country and other colonial power's history in their treatment of different groups, I can empathize as to why some may find it problematic or insensitive.

Wellll! Now we've got our answer what to do to the Jungle Cruise. Do a realistic representation of Mursi tribesmen/women, maybe with AK-47s. Then we'll be embracing/honoring indigenous peoples.

 

[Robbiem]

Wellll! Now we've got our answer what to do to the Jungle Cruise. Do a realistic representation of Mursi tribesmen/women, maybe with AK-47s. Then we'll be embracing/honoring indigenous peoples.

This would be more like the original AK safari with big red and the poachers

 

[networkpro]

I'm not Irish and i think the idea of depicting any race/culture has aggressive, in the context of a theme park attraction, makes me uncomfortable. Maybe if you were doing a larger presentation akin to American Experience or Golden Dreams, where you can explore a little bit more of the context, MAYBE it would work. But a 7 second vignette or a moving ride?

The key to this would be, whether someone from that culture, wants to tell that story. As an outsider, it wouldn't be fair for me to decide how the story of Ireland should or should not be told. Quite frankly, whether it was historically accurate or not, deciding what to depict can still have racial connotations.

What you consider as aggressive, another culture might classify as passive. It's a slippery slope when you interpret something external through the lens of your own biases. It's easier to pretend something doesn't exist ala "cancel cuture". Im pretty sure that either side of the Irish issue would love to ignore the existence of the other.

 

[G.L.A.D.I.O]

I was watching the movie Cars for the first time since its release. I realized that the movie doesn't fit in well with today's standards at all. In fact the entire movie is filled with stereotypes.

Ramone- Mexican Stereotype
Luigi - Italian Stereotype
Mater - Red Neck Stereotype
Flo - African American Stereotype

A lot of the comedy is based on the racial stereotypes, for example Ramone has flames on his car and is always showing off the hydraulics. Luigi is only interested in Italian race cars, not American ones.

There is even a Me Too moment where two "girl" cars that are fans of Lightning McQueen "flash their headlights" at him.

I remember waiting in line at Luigi's Tires and all the songs were stereotypical Italian songs making fun of Italians. Between each song Luigi talks about "his cousin" and "meatballs and spaghetti".

How is this kosher with people in 2021? I honestly think Cars Land will be set for a revamp in the future to remove or revise these characters.

Regardless of where you stand on cancel culture, these stereotypes aren't doing anyone any good.

That's a joke, right ?

We can't be that dumb, can we?
This is exactly to avoid this kind of reactions that some attractions should not change.
In this case where do we put the limit of censorship?
In Pinnochio, children turned into donkeys are mistreated. Is there censorship?
The Queen of Hearts threatens a minor with death, do we censor?
If this mentality continues, in a few years, we will all end up like the humans in H.G. Wells' time machine. All illiterate and uncultured, because all famous authors will have been censored.

Without going into details. J.K. Rowling for example, who hasn't asked anything of anyone, gets lynched by a group of people because she doesn't think like them? I don't totally agree with her and I don't attack her for all that?

There is a real problem in our society today, as soon as we don't think like others, we are racist, grossophobic, homophobic.

I grew up very well with these so-called "racist" films, but that doesn't mean that I am racist. These decisions are just a big marketing campaign. The executives don't give a damn but it's a big ad for the company. The same goes for the Pride parties where their only goal is to resell rainbow products to couples who usually earn more than a straight couple. If gay people see this flag as a symbol of tolerance after years spent in the dark, they execs only want to print it on T-shirts or stuffed animals...

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I'm not Irish and i think the idea of depicting any race/culture has aggressive, in the context of a theme park attraction, makes me uncomfortable. Maybe if you were doing a larger presentation akin to American Experience or Golden Dreams, where you can explore a little bit more of the context, MAYBE it would work. But a 7 second vignette or a moving ride?

The key to this would be, whether someone from that culture, wants to tell that story. As an outsider, it wouldn't be fair for me to decide how the story of Ireland should or should not be told. Quite frankly, whether it was historically accurate or not, deciding what to depict can still have racial connotations.

So you’re saying we can’t tell each other’s stories even if they are accurate and factual? Isn’t that one of the main points of understanding?

 

[el_super]

So you’re saying we can’t tell each other’s stories even if they are accurate and factual? Isn’t that one of the main points of understanding?

Isn't that the lesson of the telephone game? Retelling another's story is rarely factual. And what is the point of having someone else retell a story, when the original authors are standing in the room desperately wanting to tell it?

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

So we trust no one? That would be a sad way to live.

 

[el_super]

So we trust no one? That would be a sad way to live.

Trust people to tell their own stories, not someone else's. Doesn't seem that difficult and actually opens up a lot more possibilities than only accepting one viewpoint. It's a pretty good way to live.