News Several character meet and greets to be cut at Walt Disney World as labor shortage continues

[Tom P.]

By the way, we all know this understanding of capitalism - that a company’s only duty is to the stockholder, that ignoring the preferences and well-being of the worker and consumer is not only allowable but recommended, and that short-term gains outweigh long-term stability, is relatively new, having solidified in the 70s, and is actually a more radical and extreme version of what even the philosophers and economists who formulated it intended? I mean, I’m a devoted capitalist too, but there’s a universe of nuance in that term that is almost always ignored.

I would say it solidified in the 80's, but even then it really didn't get near the levels it is at now until the turn of the century. The last 20 years or so have been ridiculous. Otherwise, I agree with you.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I would say it solidified in the 80's, but even then it really didn't get near the levels it is at now until the turn of the century. The last 20 years or so have been ridiculous. Otherwise, I agree with you.

Yes, the 80s was absolutely when it came of age as a cultural and political force. It’s early days and ideological formation lay in the previous decade, though.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I just reviewed your comments in this thread, which are not voluminous, and they reinforce my impression on a first read through - you are attempting to handwave away the absence of basic services at a very expensive resort by pointing to other basic services that eventually returned, in most cases well after a reasonable individual would have expected them to do so. The “temporary suspension” we are discussing, by the way, is stretching well into its third year and in most cases the equivalent of the missing services returned to the competition years ago - Universal’s streets are full of character meet n’ greets, despite the fact that they are far less important to Uni guests then they are to WDW guests.

If your basic point is simply that, given a long enough timeframe - say, a decade - most missing elements will return, I don’t see many posters denying that, nor does it seem the relevant issue. If you feel I have missed or mischaracterized one of your posts, please feel free to bring it to my attention.

Wrong. I was responding to a very specific post, and you’re taking my specific answer completely out of context. Goodbye.

 

[Jrb1979]

All this talk about staffing issues, one thing I don't get is how a company like Costco can afford to pay employees $28 an hour, yet a company as big as Disney can't

 

[Dranth]

All this talk about staffing issues, one thing I don't get is how a company like Costco can afford to pay employees $28 an hour, yet a company as big as Disney can't

They can, they just don't want to do it. Got to protect the margins and please the stock holders even at the expense of your product.

 

[lazyboy97o]

A lot of companies can’t afford the wages being proposed (demanded) but Disney is definitely not one of them.

Disneys gross profit grew from $5.7 billion in 2009 to $27.5 billion in 2019, a $5 an hour raise for 100,000 full time employees would equal about $1 billion. Even if they had to raise wages $10 an hour to fully staff the parks they’d still be pulling in $20 billion more in profit than a decade ago. I am 100% a capitalist, and think a company has no reason (other than goodwill) to pay more than the market requires, but even I have a hard time feeling any sympathy for an insanely profitable company like Disney not wanting to pay more to get the staff they need.

This! @lentesta did the math a few years ago on what it would actually mean for Disney to do a pay raises and the impact was shockingly minimal. Disney just giving up profit for the pay raises was a very small percentage reduction in their margins and the alternative of raising prices was measured in cents.

 

[Casper Gutman]

They can, they just don't want to do it. Got to protect the margins and please the stock holders even at the expense of your product.

Yup. At the moment Disney parks are the cash register management is pillaging to cover up a lot of uncertainty and instability - for instance, no one in Hollywood has any idea what to do about film production and exhibition at the moment after their collective conviction that theaters were irrevocably a thing of the past and streaming a bottomless pool of opportunity proved to be very, very wrong. So as Disney loses huge amounts each quarter on Disney+ and lacks product to feed still-vibrant theaters that are desperate for it, they plunder the one reliable part of their business to try and hide their poor decisions.

 

[Andrew C]

All this talk about staffing issues, one thing I don't get is how a company like Costco can afford to pay employees $28 an hour, yet a company as big as Disney can't

The average is closer to $21. But the short answer is, it’s a different business model. Walmart and target probably have room to raise their wages some, but not anywhere close to what Costco does because they operate an entirely different type of business. They have more employees in store than Costco. They operate on different areas. Their customers don’t buy in bulk. They have additional costs, like major advertising, that Costco doesn’t. Costco is a smaller business with efficiencies available to them that the others do not. So if comparing Costco to Walmart and target isn’t really a fair fight, comparing to WDW doesn’t really make sense.

 

[bryanfze55]

At least as of today, Costco employees spread more “magic” than Disney cast members. Nothing can change my mind. They deserve their high (relative) wages.

 

[Jrb1979]

At least as of today, Costco employees spread more “magic” than Disney cast members. Nothing can change my mind. They deserve their high (relative) wages.

Their former CEO motto was treat your employees well and they will want to work for you.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

So if comparing Costco to Walmart and target isn’t really a fair fight, comparing to WDW doesn’t really make sense.

There will never be a direct comparison to anything else. The closest comparison that could possibly be made is universal and there are still people on this board who say that it’s not a fair comparison.

But since I mentioned it… how’s Universal staffing levels these days!?

 

[Dranth]

Unless I read it wrong, Walmart brought in something like over 5 billion net last quarter while Costco was a bit under 2 billion so it's not like the money isn't there to pay more. Obviously, there is a limit but both have some wiggle room. The bigger problem is that even if a company wanted to (which most don't) they just can't get away with giving up more than they can convince the street is needed to stay competitive without getting punished for it.

 

[Andrew C]

But since I mentioned it… how’s Universal staffing levels these days!?

Considering they too have not yet gone to daily housekeeping for all, probably not great. But that’s just a guess. Although their hotels are run by Loews, right? so we can blame them instead.

 

[fgmnt]

By the way, we all know this understanding of capitalism - that a company’s only duty is to the stockholder, that ignoring the preferences and well-being of the worker and consumer is not only allowable but recommended, and that short-term gains outweigh long-term stability, is relatively new, having solidified in the 70s, and is actually a more radical and extreme version of what even the philosophers and economists who formulated it intended? I mean, I’m a devoted capitalist too, but there’s a universe of nuance in that term that is almost always ignored.

Think of what the Walt Disney Company, or the entire American economy would be doing today if they were not allowed to initiate stock buybacks like companies were banned from doing so until 1982.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

There will never be a direct comparison to anything else. The closest comparison that could possibly be made is universal and there are still people on this board who say that it’s not a fair comparison.

But since I mentioned it… how’s Universal staffing levels these days!?

According to Indeed and Glassdoor the pay is similar (in some positions Disney pays more than Universal) so I’d guess they are having similar problems. I have no idea if those websites are accurate though.

 

[ceecee101]

Sorry I didn’t respond earlier.. took a half day away from here. But it draws you back.
The defenders was meant by anyone that constantly defends this company with whatever they do. Massive price increases? “Well things go up so it’s ok”. Parks a mess and terrible upkeep? “There are man power shortages, come on now”. ( by the way this one has been going on for many years before the pandemic.. first one also) Little things keep disappearing that made the park’s special.. or charging for things that were once free? “ Don’t go if you don’t like what’s happening”. That’s what I mean by defenders.
I put my money where my mouth it. AP holders for 19 years..DCC owner for 21 years..2 trips of 15-18 days a year,30-36 days spent in WDW. I’m the first person to say when they do something right but that’s hasn’t been often lately. I won’t sit idly by and defend them when things are going down the tube.
If “ throwing money” at it like you said won’t help, I think it would. Cast members are underpaid for the most part and with record profits Disney can do it without any worries at all.
Almost ever time I hear of a company having trouble finding workers..and it was almost a nightly news section, the owner almost always says at the end we had to raise salaries to get the workers we need. It can be done they just choose not to do it.

I heard something on business news today about this, the last thing the corporate world wants is a hot labor market where it’s hard to get workers.

 

[thomas998]

Don't think that's it because they aren't like a George Forman where they just press with the weight of the lid on the meat. They're set for height to not squeeze like that so they have to be adjusted to cook the 10:1, 4:1, and sausage patties separately. Ff you get it wrong, the lid either won't lock down on the frozen meat (because the frozen meat can't be squeezed) if you put 4:1 on a grill set up for 10:1 or you'll be in for a raw on the top surprise for all your 10:1 if you were to put it down on a grill set up for 4:1.

Given the era we'd be talking about, perhaps they were using MSG or some other additive in the seasoning that they stopped? As far as I know, the current mix is a salt/pepper blend, only.

I recall in my day, a manager lamenting how the fries weren't as good because we were cooking in vegetable oil rather than the grease that was used when they'd started.

Possible. I do remember when they used beef tallow for fries, I think it was something like 5 or 10 percent of the oil was tallow... they tasted better, but then some fool thought that people going to McDonalds wanted healthier food... which to this day I cannot understand the logic they used. My god if I'm going to eat at McDonalds I'm not thinking about trying to be healthy.

I also remember when they had fried pies instead of the "healthier" and nasty baked ones they have today... funny how a fast food place destroys their product by trying to be healthy.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

According to Indeed and Glassdoor the pay is similar (in some positions Disney pays more than Universal) so I’d guess they are having similar problems. I have no idea if those websites are accurate though.

The pay is similar but they treat workers wayyyy better. Which is why many longtime Disney CM’s can now be seen at universal.

I don’t think universal is having staffing issues… but I honestly don’t know for sure.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I heard something on business news today about this, the last thing the corporate world wants is a hot labor market where it’s hard to get workers.

The invisible hand of the market may only ever work in one direction. If it points against the interests of employers, that’s Communism.

 

[celluloid]

There will never be a direct comparison to anything else. The closest comparison that could possibly be made is universal and there are still people on this board who say that it’s not a fair comparison.

But since I mentioned it… how’s Universal staffing levels these days!?

Well since the most recent cut applies to entertainment. They have a fully staffed largest Halloween attraction theme park event in the world that has run more nights than ever.

So all things, considered, their entertainment has not been cut.


They also just premiered a new dance show in the New York Section of Studios while still having the other mainstays.

There is even Port of Entry and Studios daily Streetmsophere out.