Seven Dwarf's Mine Train Virtual Ride

[mickeysbrother]

If Disney ever passes Uni...or even catches up...I'll be the first one to say so. And I'll be pleased as punch to do it!!!

I love all the parks and have no loyalty to one group or the other.

So your telling me that disney is behing Uni??? How does that make any sense what so ever???

 

[mickeysbrother]

I'm guilty of the Potter vs Star Wars debate, and I did not even intend to get into it. What I do get tired of though is people complaining about Disney all the time. This is a Disney based site. Constructive criticism is good, but when it's on and on and on its irritating. If you don't like Disney don't go, burn all your Disney movies, start a protest I don't care. I just don't want to hear you b**** about it over and over and over and over and over again. We're here to discuss, not complain. Thank you.

Well Freaking said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At least i know im not the only one who has kona kahunas on this site. cheers fellow friend

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I don't know what's up about the swaying cars. Entirely possible that they could have done away with that, though a shame if they did. I don't know whether there's any logic in them trying to "hold out" on showing us the swaying motion when the first CGI ride through released several years ago of the ride did show the swaying. It's possible they just didn't want to go through with re-animating the physics a second and third time for newer videos, but I don't know. Makes me worry.

@Lee Do you know whether the swaying cars are still a part of the current attraction?

I have nothing against this ride being a family coaster, nor the concept itself. It doesn't take thrills for something to be considered an E ticket experience. If anyone says that you can't have an amazing ride without thrills, they're simply idiots. But I doubt any of the people here comparing this ride to Universal's efforts are actually referring to the thrill factor in their arguments in the first place. At least I hope not, I would think that fans of world class theme parks know that you can have a truly amazing ride without any thrills at all. EPCOT was full of rides like that.

The lack of thrills isn't the problem with the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train. It's ridiculous to expect that The problem is that this ride has clearly gone through cutback after cutback since its original concept form. You can dig up older layouts of the ride posted by Lee and compare them with the current layout they're going with and see that they've massively cut down on the track length, show scenes and possibly other theming from what was originally planned. Even between the consecutively released concept videos it looks like the show scenes are planned to be smaller and less detailed than earlier videos showed. That's the problem I have with it. It's taking such an incredibly long time for something of this small scale and Disney along with their social media cult are trying to hype this up as something more than it is, just like calling Mermaid an "E Ticket lite".

Take Gringotts and disregard its thrills (i've even heard the thrills are mild, maybe even less than Big Thunder), it's still apparently to have incredible levels of theming and is said to have amazing state of the art animatronic figures (compare that to the simplistic moving figures in the Mine Train). And it's being built from start to finish in a ridiculously tiny fraction of the time that the Mine Train is.

I expect the Mine Train to still be a pleasant and fun addition to Fantasyland, and it's nice to see something original to WDW for a change (though I don't know if Shanghai is still getting a clone). And I expect to enjoy it with my own tempered expectations. But it's clearly gone through a load of budget cuts and isn't going to reach anywhere near the potential it could and should have. And it's also a damn shame that the previous Snow White ride building is being wasted on another meet and greet instead of a new ride (and it's also taking an absolutely stupid amount of time to build such a simple waste of an "attraction").

So the issues with this ride are as follows (no i'm not going to mention lack of thrills in any of the points as it's irrelevant and incidental considering the concept)-
- Taking too long for something so trivial
- Shortened heavily from its original track length
- Is being hyped as some sort of amazing new project for something so simple
- Show scenes look like they've been reduced and/or simplified if the CGI ride throughs are accurate
- Some of the themed elements even look like they were done away with (like a log bridge people were debating in the construction thread)

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

So your telling me that disney is behing Uni??? How does that make any sense what so ever???

Comparing NEW experiences, yes they are most definitely behind. Of the Orlando rides created in the past decade or so, there's pretty much no arguing that Universal has surpassed Disney.

Disney's edge is their remaining roster of past attractions built 20-30 years ago. Attractions like Spaceship Earth and Splash Mountain for example still hold up and i'd still argue remain world class rides. But those are now ancient, what remains of EPCOT that is still good is now over 30 years old, Splash Mountain over 20 years now. Even Animal Kingdom (built in the period where there was still incredible talent and creativity but the corporate side was beginning to neuter things) is about 15 years old now... Universal has the definite edge over Disney in the past 10-15 years. And during that time, the most substantial new WDW ride has been Everest. It's solid and has elements of what they once were capable of doing, but it's under-developed and isn't quite up to par with what Disney was once known for (they didn't even bother to cover up ANY of the clearly visible internal steel structure in the backwards part). Not to even mention the deplorable condition it has been in since a year after it originally opened (I shouldn't need to elaborate on what i'm referring to, it's the one true show scene it actually has. Hyped to death in every documentary on the ride, still shown functional in current promo material for the ride, and it's been broken for most of its life).

This could always change though, corporate changes can and do happen along with business philosophies. But it's going to take a drastic change to do so. Though at this point I wouldn't necessarily say such a change is absolutely impossible. Even if you disregard Universal cutting into attendance levels, if nextgen fails as hard as pretty much every insider here is saying it is so far, that could endanger some of the high level executives that helped the company enter this age of mediocrity at WDW (of course it could always make things worse too).

 

[WDWDad13]

Comparing NEW experiences, yes they are most definitely behind. Of the Orlando rides created in the past decade or so, there's pretty much no arguing that Universal has surpassed Disney.

Disney's edge is their remaining roster of past attractions built 20-30 years ago.

Toy Story Mania, Soarin', Everest....?

Disney's "edge" isn't just their older attractions... but let's go with that for a second. Why do we think that is? How could 10 to even 30 year old rides still give them an "edge" over Uni? Is their something Uni just doesn't have that Disney has and always will?

 

[billDozer]

That's exactly what I thought. It looks like a tame thunder mountain, and the cars were not swinging at all in this video. I hope that's not the case, because the swinging cars is what makes this ride unique. I hope the dark part of the ride will be much longer than what they showed also. I'm holding out hope that they didn't want to reveal too much so they gave us a lame video. I hope

im pretty sure the software wdi has for these kinds of previews doesnt have the ability to show the swinging cars

 

[flynnibus]

I assumed this was just a limitation of this particular representation, but if not then it is a major failure on Disney's part.

I thought the last CGI POV showed the cars moving more... tho I admit I haven't pulled up the last render.

 

[flynnibus]

I hope the dark part of the ride will be much longer than what they showed also. I'm holding out hope that they didn't want to reveal too much so they gave us a lame video. I hope

I think they might not show some elements... to keep some surprises.. (simply hide some figures, etc in the video).. but I would not expect a difference in duration in the scenes you did see.

 

[Lee]

I don't know what's up about the swaying cars. Entirely possible that they could have done away with that, though a shame if they did. I don't know whether there's any logic in them trying to "hold out" on showing us the swaying motion when the first CGI ride through released several years ago of the ride did show the swaying. It's possible they just didn't want to go through with re-animating the physics a second and third time for newer videos, but I don't know. Makes me worry.

@Lee Do you know whether the swaying cars are still a part of the current attraction?

I have nothing against this ride being a family coaster, nor the concept itself. It doesn't take thrills for something to be considered an E ticket experience. If anyone says that you can't have an amazing ride without thrills, they're simply idiots. But I doubt any of the people here comparing this ride to Universal's efforts are actually referring to the thrill factor in their arguments in the first place. At least I hope not, I would think that fans of world class theme parks know that you can have a truly amazing ride without any thrills at all. EPCOT was full of rides like that.

The lack of thrills isn't the problem with the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train. It's ridiculous to expect that The problem is that this ride has clearly gone through cutback after cutback since its original concept form. You can dig up older layouts of the ride posted by Lee and compare them with the current layout they're going with and see that they've massively cut down on the track length, show scenes and possibly other theming from what was originally planned. Even between the consecutively released concept videos it looks like the show scenes are planned to be smaller and less detailed than earlier videos showed. That's the problem I have with it. It's taking such an incredibly long time for something of this small scale and Disney along with their social media cult are trying to hype this up as something more than it is, just like calling Mermaid an "E Ticket lite".

Take Gringotts and disregard its thrills (i've even heard the thrills are mild, maybe even less than Big Thunder), it's still apparently to have incredible levels of theming and is said to have amazing state of the art animatronic figures (compare that to the simplistic moving figures in the Mine Train). And it's being built from start to finish in a ridiculously tiny fraction of the time that the Mine Train is.

I expect the Mine Train to still be a pleasant and fun addition to Fantasyland, and it's nice to see something original to WDW for a change (though I don't know if Shanghai is still getting a clone). And I expect to enjoy it with my own tempered expectations. But it's clearly gone through a load of budget cuts and isn't going to reach anywhere near the potential it could and should have. And it's also a damn shame that the previous Snow White ride building is being wasted on another meet and greet instead of a new ride (and it's also taking an absolutely stupid amount of time to build such a simple waste of an "attraction").

So the issues with this ride are as follows (no i'm not going to mention lack of thrills in any of the points as it's irrelevant and incidental considering the concept)-
- Taking too long for something so trivial
- Shortened heavily from its original track length
- Is being hyped as some sort of amazing new project for something so simple
- Show scenes look like they've been reduced and/or simplified if the CGI ride throughs are accurate
- Some of the themed elements even look like they were done away with (like a log bridge people were debating in the construction thread)

As far as I know, the swinging cars are still in the ride.
However, I wouldn't expect them to do any really radical swinging.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Toy Story Mania, Soarin', Everest....?

Disney's "edge" isn't just their older attractions... but let's go with that for a second. Why do we think that is? How could 10 to even 30 year old rides still give them an "edge" over Uni? Is their something Uni just doesn't have that Disney has and always will?

Nostalgia isn't a bad thing, but you need good new experiences on top of the classics. The new has to be good and strive to improve upon existing rides. That's something Disney has fallen flat on their face with in the past decade, and why Universal has the creative edge at this point in time. If both companies continue their current individual business practices for the next decade and beyond, WDW is in big trouble.

Quality is the element you're referring to that Disney World had that made it great. It's not some kind of mythical "magic" or "pixie dust" inherent to a brand. It's also not inherent in a company forever just because they were once great (it's in a state of flux as to who has the quality or not). Quality takes a mixture of creative talent plus willingness to allow it. And while Disney's past rides are still great, there's a limit to how far you can coast on nostalgia without creating NEW quality experience to add to those existing older ones (you also need to plus the older ones to keep them from aging badly). Disney again has consistently failed in this regard while Universal has succeeded.

I mentioned Everest and its wins and faults, along with the deplorable condition it's in. It's the best they could do in the modern era and still fell way short of what they were once capable of, or what Universal has proven they're now capable of.

Neither Toy Story Mania or Soarin are worthy of Disney's past quality, nor do they even come close to what Universal has created in the recent 10 years. Toy Story Mania is a laughable "ride", the queue is the only part of the ride i'd even consider good (the ride itself is very mediocre). Universal has time and time again created attractions in the past decade that blow it out of the water. Soarin is enjoyable (not nearly enough for the absurdly long wait times it has), but it's still a simulator when you get down to it. Simulators are supposed to be minor attractions, nothing compared to amazing experiences like Spaceship Earth or Horizons. Not to mention Soarin replaced Food Rocks, a charming and very arguably superior experience. And that's another thing, when Disney replaces something, too often what they replace it with is far worse than what was there previously. Future World is a perfect example of this. Almost every change made to the park since 1994 has been a failure, or at least worse than what was there prior.

As far as I know, the swinging cars are still in the ride.
However, I wouldn't expect them to do any really radical swinging.

Thanks for the info. Yeah I don't expect them to swing very hard. I could actually imagine it being possible for them to swing TOO hard and create a much more thrilling experience than what they're going for here, so easy to imagine they'll restrict how much they swing.

 

[WDWDad13]

Nostalgia isn't a bad thing, but you need good new experiences on top of the classics. The new has to be good and strive to improve upon existing rides. That's something Disney has fallen flat on their face with in the past decade, and why Universal has the creative edge at this point in time. If both companies continue their current individual business practices for the next decade and beyond, WDW is in big trouble.

Quality is the element you're referring to that Disney World had that made it great. It's not some kind of mythical "magic" or "pixie dust" inherent to a brand. It's also not inherent in a company forever just because they were once great (it's in a state of flux as to who has the quality or not). Quality takes a mixture of creative talent plus willingness to allow it. And while Disney's past rides are still great, there's a limit to how far you can coast on nostalgia without creating NEW quality experience to add to those existing older ones (you also need to plus the older ones to keep them from aging badly). Disney again has consistently failed in this regard while Universal has succeeded.

I mentioned Everest and its wins and faults, along with the deplorable condition it's in. It's the best they could do in the modern era and still fell way short of what they were once capable of, or what Universal has proven they're now capable of.

Neither Toy Story Mania or Soarin are worthy of Disney's past quality, nor do they even come close to what Universal has created in the recent 10 years. Toy Story Mania is a laughable "ride", the queue is the only part of the ride i'd even consider good (the ride itself is very mediocre). Universal has time and time again created attractions in the past decade that blow it out of the water. Soarin is enjoyable (not nearly enough for the absurdly long wait times it has), but it's still a simulator when you get down to it. Simulators are supposed to be minor attractions, nothing compared to amazing experiences like Spaceship Earth or Horizons. Not to mention Soarin replaced Food Rocks, a charming and very arguably superior experience. And that's another thing, when Disney replaces something, too often what they replace it with is far worse than what was there previously. Future World is a perfect example of this. Almost every change made to the park since 1994 has been a failure, or at least worse than what was there prior.


Thanks for the info. Yeah I don't expect them to swing very hard. I could actually imagine it being possible for them to swing TOO hard and create a much more thrilling experience than what they're going for here, so easy to imagine they'll restrict how much they swing.

I don't know if the Harry Plopper craze will last forever... and the Simpsons in my opinion is already an old cartoon/craze as well. Uni will eventually run out of room too. Disney has plenty of "plans" just not enough green lights yet... again nothing is really driving them to panic and build as quickly as possible. We think they should be, but from a business perspective...they are doing very well even with the so called "stale" parks.

I want to see big things in all 4 theme parks within the next 5-10 years...

 

[mmalloy56]

I think it looks fun. That is all.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I don't know if the Harry Plopper craze will last forever... and the Simpsons in my opinion is already an old cartoon/craze as well. Uni will eventually run out of room too. Disney has plenty of "plans" just not enough green lights yet... again nothing is really driving them to panic and build as quickly as possible. We think they should be, but from a business perspective...they are doing very well even with the so called "stale" parks.

I want to see big things in all 4 theme parks within the next 5-10 years...

It doesn't matter whether a craze for an IP dies. A good ride will remain a good ride regardless of whether it's based on an IP that ends up fading from popularity. There are rides that aren't even based on IP's at all that are fantastic and remain popular. People will still appreciate a ride if it's good. When I first rode the Great Movie Ride as a child, I hadn't seen most of the films portrayed in it. It wasn't any less of a fantastic ride though regardless of my familiarity with them. Same is true of Splash Mountain, I hadn't seen Song of the South at that point. I think a lot of people that ride it don't even have a clue that it's based on pre-existing source material (Disney likes to pretend the movie doesn't exist).

The opposite is also true though as well, a bad ride isn't going to succeed even if it's based on a popular IP. Stitch's Great Escape and Toy Story Mania are good examples of that backfiring, popular IP's but just meh (or in Stitch's case, actually bad) experiences. I think a lot of people praising the Harry Potter rides wouldn't do so if the rides weren't any good in reality.

I don't buy any argument saying Harry Potter is going to fade from culture at this point though, with or without new content it clearly has staying power with this and future generations. People are going to remember and love it (at the very least the books) decades from now.

They're also not going to stop with Harry Potter or the Simpsons. They're said to have plans for Jurassic Park and the Seuss areas in the short term. Lord of the Rings has also been a recent rumor (may or may not happen). Besides those though, they're after blood and aren't going to stop pursuing ways to expand their theme park attractions and take away attendance from WDW.

I think it looks fun. That is all.

I can agree with that much.

 

[WDWDad13]

It doesn't matter whether a craze for an IP dies. A good ride will remain a good ride regardless of whether it's based on an IP that ends up fading from popularity. There are rides that aren't even based on IP's at all that are fantastic and remain popular. People will still appreciate a ride if it's good. When I first rode the Great Movie Ride as a child, I hadn't seen most of the films portrayed in it. It wasn't any less of a fantastic ride though regardless of my familiarity with them. Same is true of Splash Mountain, I hadn't seen Song of the South at that point. I think a lot of people that ride it don't even have a clue that it's based on pre-existing source material (Disney likes to pretend the movie doesn't exist).

The opposite is also true though as well, a bad ride isn't going to succeed even if it's based on a popular IP. Stitch's Great Escape and Toy Story Mania are good examples of that backfiring, popular IP's but just meh (or in Stitch's case, actually bad) experiences. I think a lot of people praising the Harry Potter rides wouldn't do so if the rides weren't any good in reality.

I don't buy any argument saying Harry Potter is going to fade from culture at this point though, with or without new content it clearly has staying power with this and future generations.

They're also not going to stop with Harry Potter or the Simpsons. They're said to have plans for Jurassic Park and the Seuss areas in the short term. Lord of the Rings has also been a recent rumor (may or may not happen). Besides those though, they're after blood and aren't going to stop pursuing ways to expand their theme park attractions and take away attendance from WDW.


I can agree with that much.

so you're saying Toy Story Mania... one of the most difficult rides to get a fastpass for is a failure?

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

so you're saying Toy Story Mania... one of the most difficult rides to get a fastpass for is a failure?

I'm saying it's a mediocre ride. Definitely a failure of quality given what Disney has achieved in the past (or in other parks more recently).

It gets stupid long lines for several reasons, some of which include-
1- It apparently has both poor capacity and is rather inefficient, lines pile up as a result.
2- One of few rides at DHS without a height requirement (or isn't too intense for some people).
3- It's one of the few rides PERIOD at DHS.
4- Fastpass itself gums up and heavily inflates the line as it usually does for any attraction.

The ride would have nowhere near the lines if any of the above issues were addressed. Not to say no one would ride it, it would obviously draw an audience based on the Toy Story IP. But that doesn't change it being a pretty bad ride. It attracts an audience that just hasn't been conditioned to strive for something better than a mediocre video game with 3D glasses.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

right... because Disney visitors are dumb and haven't been "conditioned" to want something better... like at Uni

Modern Disney World visitors are indeed dumbed down and being conditioned for mediocrity. This has been discussed extensively in the spirited threads by @WDW1974 among many others in the thread.

Anyone arguing that Toy Story Mania is even close to (let alone better than) Forbidden Journey has absolutely no taste when it comes to theme parks. FJ is objectively superior to any ride Disney World has received in the past decade.

 

[WDWDad13]

Modern Disney World visitors are indeed dumbed down and being conditioned for mediocrity. This has been discussed extensively in the spirited threads by @WDW1974 among many others in the thread.

Anyone arguing that Toy Story Mania is even close to (let alone better than) Forbidden Journey has absolutely no taste when it comes to theme parks. FJ is objectively superior to any ride Disney World has received in the past decade.

#1 - why is everything he says worshiped as if it were spoken by the Walt Disney holy spirit? lol - Personally I don't care if he or any others think Disney World visitors are "indeed dumbed down and being conditioned for mediocrity" - this mediocrity is still and always will be killing Uni on a daily visitor gate count so there must be SOMETHING right going on there... although you wouldn't think it reading these boards

#2 - no one is or was arguing TSM is "better" than Forbidden Journey...it's different. Too many folks try to make this a Disney v/s Universal competition when in reality whatever either builds we all win right? Heck, Disney owns the rights to part of what is even inside Uni so it's not like there is cut throat competition going on here. Uni is investing in their parks as is WDW. Uni is quickly building attractions because they are very stale... WDW is investing in technology at the moment while planning their next big thing(S) - I see nothing wrong with either

 

[Bocabear]

right... because Disney visitors are dumb and haven't been "conditioned" to want something better... like at Uni

It's not about Uni VS Disney...It is about the fact that Disney's offerings have been slipping in quality while Universal's have been getting better... Showing a HUGE gap. I am sure Disney CAN create amazing rides, but lately Disney Creative thinks that people will be thrilled with Meet and Greets and mediocre video game rides...And unfortunately a lot of people swallow the hype and applaud their cost-saving attractions...We know they are capable of much better....and remember they are the premium priced park...

 

[WDWDad13]

It's not about Uni VS Disney...It is about the fact that Disney's offerings have been slipping in quality while Universal's have been getting better... Showing a HUGE gap. I am sure Disney CAN create amazing rides, but lately Disney Creative thinks that people will be thrilled with Meet and Greets and mediocre video game rides...And unfortunately a lot of people swallow the hype and applaud their cost-saving attractions...We know they are capable of much better....and remember they are the premium priced park...

I completely agree...but I think personally WDW surroundings and ambiance is MUCH different than Uni and some could go to the parks and not ride a thing, walk around, eat a one of their many restaurants, etc. and enjoy themselves.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I thought the last CGI POV showed the cars moving more... tho I admit I haven't pulled up the last render.

Yes, the last video did show the vehicles moving.

As far as I know, the swinging cars are still in the ride.
However, I wouldn't expect them to do any really radical swinging.

Maybe 'swaying' would be a better term than 'swinging.'