And only they have the ability to make a hateful comment
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Segway Lawsuit Against Disney Thrown out of Court
- Thread starter PhotoDave219
- Start date
And only they have the ability to make a hateful comment
It seems hateful to you but it may not to others. So again, you have chosen to be a victim. I'm tired of seeing people who would rather be a victim than part of the solution. People have to start arguing on the facts instead of their feelings. And the facts are that in this case the people who were suing had several other options to get around the parks that wouldn't put other guest in danger. If you remove the emotion from the issue it becomes a real simple problem with an easy solution.
IMO, Segway usage by the disabled will increase, and they will eventually be classified in the same way as ECVs, wheelchairs, service animals, etc., and will be covered by the ADA.
I can understand why WDW might be hesitant to allow them AT THIS POINT, but I also do not consider these to be frivolous lawsuits. These battles have been fought every step (pardon the pun) of the way for the past 40 years, and will continue to be fought as technology/research expands the resources available to those with disabilities.
I remember a time when Seeing Eye dogs were not allowed on public transportation, in restaurants, etc. Then, they were the ONLY service animals allowed. Those with severe mobility issues were more or less shut-ins, regardless of age. After all, people had other options (bring a friend) available to them that did not expose other customers to "dirty" animals.
The same can be said for public access and accomodation for a variety of disabilities. Many of these accomodations are so common that those of us who do not need them AT THIS TIME don't even notice them, ie, Braille signs on elevators.
As more and more "boomers" start needing assistance, I suspect we will see a lot more changes. Just as most of us have no intention of sitting around in rocking chairs at the old folks home, waiting to die, we aren't going to want to be confined to a wheelchair, or even ECV, if there is another alternative that will give us more dignity.
As far as abusing parking spaces, if you don't have a tag for them, you shouldn't be using them...period. The same with renting/using wheelchairs, etc. I wouldn't tempt fate that way. These people (and they know who they are) should be pitied for their ignorance and selfishness. What miserable excuses for human beings, and what a waste of the life given to them.
I can understand why WDW might be hesitant to allow them AT THIS POINT, but I also do not consider these to be frivolous lawsuits. These battles have been fought every step (pardon the pun) of the way for the past 40 years, and will continue to be fought as technology/research expands the resources available to those with disabilities.
I remember a time when Seeing Eye dogs were not allowed on public transportation, in restaurants, etc. Then, they were the ONLY service animals allowed. Those with severe mobility issues were more or less shut-ins, regardless of age. After all, people had other options (bring a friend) available to them that did not expose other customers to "dirty" animals.
The same can be said for public access and accomodation for a variety of disabilities. Many of these accomodations are so common that those of us who do not need them AT THIS TIME don't even notice them, ie, Braille signs on elevators.
As more and more "boomers" start needing assistance, I suspect we will see a lot more changes. Just as most of us have no intention of sitting around in rocking chairs at the old folks home, waiting to die, we aren't going to want to be confined to a wheelchair, or even ECV, if there is another alternative that will give us more dignity.
As far as abusing parking spaces, if you don't have a tag for them, you shouldn't be using them...period. The same with renting/using wheelchairs, etc. I wouldn't tempt fate that way.
These people (and they know who they are) should be pitied for their ignorance and selfishness. What miserable excuses for human beings, and what a waste of the life given to them.
IMO, Segway usage by the disabled will increase, and they will eventually be classified in the same way as ECVs, wheelchairs, service animals, etc., and will be covered by the ADA.
I can understand why WDW might be hesitant to allow them AT THIS POINT, but I also do not consider these to be frivolous lawsuits. These battles have been fought every step (pardon the pun) of the way for the past 40 years, and will continue to be fought as technology/research expands the resources available to those with disabilities.
I remember a time when Seeing Eye dogs were not allowed on public transportation, in restaurants, etc. Then, they were the ONLY service animals allowed. Those with severe mobility issues were more or less shut-ins, regardless of age. After all, people had other options (bring a friend) available to them that did not expose other customers to "dirty" animals.
The same can be said for public access and accomodation for a variety of disabilities. Many of these accomodations are so common that those of us who do not need them AT THIS TIME don't even notice them, ie, Braille signs on elevators.
As more and more "boomers" start needing assistance, I suspect we will see a lot more changes. Just as most of us have no intention of sitting around in rocking chairs at the old folks home, waiting to die, we aren't going to want to be confined to a wheelchair, or even ECV, if there is another alternative that will give us more dignity.
As far as abusing parking spaces, if you don't have a tag for them, you shouldn't be using them...period. The same with renting/using wheelchairs, etc. I wouldn't tempt fate that way.
Great post!
I can understand Disney's worries of having Segways running loose in the parks, however, you can't help but be a really good Segway driver within a couple minutes of getting on one because they are SO simple. Also anyone who OWNS a Segway is probably going to be cautious and responsible with it.
I hate to be stereotypical, but your average backwoods manner-free heathen is not going to be the type to own a Segway, and those are the types you usually see driving around those ECVs slamming into everyone's ankles and honking the horns.
I definitely think we'll be seeing more and more of them over the years.
I think you're wrong. Segways will never become an approved medical device.
So you are at least 47? I think the draft was abolished around 1975? That was the last time anyone was "forced" to serve in the armed forces.
And I don't see the need for "pregnancy" spaces at the mall, either. If you can't walk in from the parking lot, how are you going to walk around the stores? If you're pregnant and in a wheelchair, or have restricted mobility, you should have a temporary tagto use the handicapped spaces.
So if I were to start a tirade using nothing but the 'N' word, would it be safe for me to say that I said nothing offensive, but rather those offended by it chose to get offended?
It takes a lot to offend me... and I'm usually the first to offend in most circumstances. I will concede that there are merits to what the poster said, but the way it was phrased is specifically what I found to be quite offensive. The way it was generalized. The way that it seems as if all "i need assistance" lawsuits are BS.
I'm a believe in tort reform, which judging by the content of the post, the poster believes in as well (albeit put in a much more crude fashion), but I also believe that an ocassional lawsuit is warranted, especially if it's the only way that a party will listen.
I publicly bet you $100 that if I live another 20 years (and I sure hope so!), they will be covered under the ADA. So mark the date....Feb, 2027. I'll be sure to let my children know, so you can collect from my estate if I die before then.
Of course, by then, that probably will only be enough to buy one drink at WDW. :ROFLOL:
Really Dave, they won't? Really? I never realized that you were actually Michael Mukasey or Andrew von Eschenbach and thus able to make that call.
tigsmom
Well-Known Member
Lets just look at the three people suing...
one person has MS - many people with MS can still walk in the early stages, but most end up in a wheelchair/scooter because their body no longer responds the way it should. These people are considered to have a physical disability.
One person has Lou Gehrig's disease or ALS - again a problem where the nervous system no longer responds to the brain's commands. They usually deteriorate rapidly going from fully functioning to wheelchair bound to bedridden. These people are considered to have a physical disability.
The third person has lost a foot. This is the only case that an argument can be made because many people with amputations function with a prosthesis and can walk, run and stand for decent periods of time. Not knowing this person's case we cannot say that they fit into that category, so yes, they may or may not be considered disabled.
You are partially deaf (are you the chauffeur? they lose their hearing like crazy) You have a partial disability whether you want to admit it or not. It is your choice to not wear a hearing aid and thus miss out on a big part of everyday life. Notice I said "your choice", many people with the same problem make a different choice, it doesn't make them better or worse or their disability any different.
I agree with the courts, Disney as a company has made arrangement for people with disabilities and thus have lived up to the spirit of the law. Can more be done? Probably, but that isn't cause the lawsuit.
Just my 2 cents worth today.
tigsmom
Well-Known Member
Just remember one thing - appearances are deceiving.
You do not know what goes on INSIDE somebody's body. You do not need special permits to use these devices so they cannot be denied. Those who "cheat the system" do make it bad for those who truly need these for mobility's sake, but you cannot refuse them or you open up a whole new can of worms that lead to more lawsuits.
The lawsuit was thrown out for an excellent reason -- those who sued were not harmed by Disney's policy because they never intended to go to Disney in the first place. What this represents is a continuing narrowing of the circumstances in which the courts will allow class action suits. That has been going on for quite some time. What the courts appear to have decided is that a person is harmed by a policy that makes it harder for them to do something that it wasn't likely they wanted to do in the first place.
The lawsuit will, I'm sure, resurface when a few people who use Segways and actually want to go to WDW become the named plaintiffs. Then we'll see how big a class can be put together, and perhpas we'll actually debate the issues, which are real.
I don't know if Segways will ever be an officially approved device, but I agree with the Mom that these kinds of suits often seem frivolous but often aren't when one looks at the bigger picture. Many things we now take for granted (non-discrimination in real estate transactions, separate is not equal, equal access to voting booths) started with what was considered useless, silly, legal actions.
As for the abusers, why should make policies focused on them. A policy that says you can use a Segway if medically appropriate doesn't mean Disney has to allow my teenage neighbor to use one because he thinks it's fun. Just as the fact that there is some credit card fraud doesn't mean stores should just stop accepting credit cards. There are middle grounds here.
As for the the questions about whether Segways are safe in the parks, these are perfectly reasonable. Just as a disabled person is not allowed to drive around the park in a golf cart or a SmartCar (or even an autopia vehicle), it is certainly important to look at safety issues. But I would be very surprised if there were not a technological way -- perhaps one that is not yet developed -- to make Segways every bit as safe to other park guests as ECV are. The speed can be restricted, I'm sure, and Segways already have a smaller footprint than ECV's.
The lawsuit will, I'm sure, resurface when a few people who use Segways and actually want to go to WDW become the named plaintiffs. Then we'll see how big a class can be put together, and perhpas we'll actually debate the issues, which are real.
I don't know if Segways will ever be an officially approved device, but I agree with the Mom that these kinds of suits often seem frivolous but often aren't when one looks at the bigger picture. Many things we now take for granted (non-discrimination in real estate transactions, separate is not equal, equal access to voting booths) started with what was considered useless, silly, legal actions.
As for the abusers, why should make policies focused on them. A policy that says you can use a Segway if medically appropriate doesn't mean Disney has to allow my teenage neighbor to use one because he thinks it's fun. Just as the fact that there is some credit card fraud doesn't mean stores should just stop accepting credit cards. There are middle grounds here.
As for the the questions about whether Segways are safe in the parks, these are perfectly reasonable. Just as a disabled person is not allowed to drive around the park in a golf cart or a SmartCar (or even an autopia vehicle), it is certainly important to look at safety issues. But I would be very surprised if there were not a technological way -- perhaps one that is not yet developed -- to make Segways every bit as safe to other park guests as ECV are. The speed can be restricted, I'm sure, and Segways already have a smaller footprint than ECV's.
Montyboy
New Member
Does that come on a coffee mug or a pillow?
MouseMadness
Well-Known Member
So ARE segways allowed at most other public places? Malls, groceries, etc? :shrug:
I will admit to not living in the biggest city in the world, but I have never ever seen anybody using one for every day. Only ever seen them at WDW, in fact :lol:
I will admit to not living in the biggest city in the world, but I have never ever seen anybody using one for every day. Only ever seen them at WDW, in fact :lol:
tigsmom
Well-Known Member
It can, for a price. :lookaroun
I disagree. It is possible to require a certification of medical need. States do so with respect to handicapped parking permits. It isn't foolproof, but it certainly cuts down on the lying and the fraud.
More on the fear of fraud being the reason to deny Segways...
Should cities deny senior citizens reduced fares on buses because some people lie about their age? Should Disney require all people, no matter what age, to pay to get into Disney parks because some people say their child is 3 instead of 4 (or is it 2 instead of 3 -- can't remember the cutoff now)? Should Disney cut off the free parking at parks for on-site hotel guests because some people flash old room keys and permits at the parking lot gates?
If we insisit on demonstrating a way to end all fraud before allowing something, we will be living in a very constrained world. In all of the situations in the previous paragraph, and many many others, those making policies have essentially concluded that the benefits of the permissive policy outweigh the costs that the fraudsters load onto the system. It doesn't mean they have decided that it is OK or acceptable to lie -- they've just decided that they are comfortable taking that risk to benefit the larger group of honest people.
And given that the goal of allowing Segways would be to help a group of people who are much more need of transportation help than parents of two-year-olds are in need of help getting into Disney Parks, I would think we ought to be willing tolerate a bit more chance of fraud than in we would in regards to the "little ones get in free" policy.
DMC-12
It's HarmonioUS, NOT HarmoniYOU.
I dunno... I have seen some Epcot managers almost take some people out... or wipe out themselves. :lol::lookaroun
Anyway... I am all for the disabled using Segways.
I'm still on the fence about in the theme parks though. Edit: I've said it before... and I'll say it again: Whats good for the goose, is good for the gander. -- Take away Epcot managers Segways to... its only fair then. Surely they are not disabled, because if they were.. they would not be allowed to ride them. :lookaroun