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Security breach at MK? You be the judge...

SpongeScott

Well-Known Member
Uponastar said:
I think the important point here is CM reaction. It seems there is no specific plan in place for CMs to handle a package left suddenly in a crowded area. In today's world all bases should be covered. The way that guy entered and exited the area so quickly, leaving the package behind, certainly would have spooked me! I don't know how I would have handled it, but CMs should have training for handling all such situations. Unattended packages should always be treated as suspicious items until otherwise proven.
When I worked at Target, we were told the shoplifters like to work under the assumption that they are "invisible". Therefore, we would approach potential shoplifters or someone that had been caught on cameras stealing and ask them if they needed help. By doing this, we took away their cloak of "invisibility" by noting that we saw them in the store. Many times we stopped a shoplifter from leaving the store with the goods.

My point in this? Don't you think that someone wishing to perform an act of terrorism will not do anything to draw attention to him or herself? Don't you think they would want to be as anonymous as possible so that no one can eyewitness them? How many people saw Eric Rudolph place that knapsack at Centennial Park in Atlanta during the Olympics? Placing a package under a seat and then running out is not a way to remain "invisible" or to remain anonymous. Finding an unattended package with no one around it would draw more attention to me than the way this person left his.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
brich said:
I may have ignored a bag that was sitting there unattended or simply brought it to a CM to place in Lost and Found. Had he been sitting and gotten up and walked away, I would have returned the bag to the man. Had he dropped it as he walked through the aisle and continued to walk, I would have picked it up and given it to him, just as I did when a women walked by my lunch table at Cosmic Rays and dropped a bag without knowing. Hard to ignore a man who leans down, places a bag under a seat and runs out of an attraction before it even starts. Therefore, I disagree that this was merely an unattended bag and more of a security issue.
Also, I was not freaking out. I was extremely calm, despite my heart racing. And I don't believe I blew anything out of proportion when reporting this to the CM. I expressed my concern. The only time I lose my head is around these forums. :lol:
And yes, can't wait to see Chicken Little. So long as no one leaves a bag under any seats and runs away...:lol:

There has to be more to this story.... Who was this man? Did he return? Did he have children? Where did he run to? And define running, was this a full on sprint or a fast walk? What did he look like? And so forth.....

There are lots of unanswered questions that youre leaving out here that are crucial to the story.
 

wannabeBelle

Well-Known Member
SpongeScott said:
When I worked at Target, we were told the shoplifters like to work under the assumption that they are "invisible". Therefore, we would approach potential shoplifters or someone that had been caught on cameras stealing and ask them if they needed help. By doing this, we took away their cloak of "invisibility" by noting that we saw them in the store. Many times we stopped a shoplifter from leaving the store with the goods.

My point in this? Don't you think that someone wishing to perform an act of terrorism will not do anything to draw attention to him or herself? Don't you think they would want to be as anonymous as possible so that no one can eyewitness them? How many people saw Eric Rudolph place that knapsack at Centennial Park in Atlanta during the Olympics? Placing a package under a seat and then running out is not a way to remain "invisible" or to remain anonymous. Finding an unattended package with no one around it would draw more attention to me than the way this person left his.
Hi Scott, I guess the operative question is would you have been willing to bet your life ( quite literally here) on your assumption that this was nothing? I wouldnt. I would rather "over react" tell a CM, get Disney security involved and have it be someone's lunch that he forgot or dropped, then to have done nothing and it did turn out to be something a lot more sinister!!!! Again maybe it has something to do with where I live, and the fact that it hit VERY close to home and I did lose people I knew and some other people lost a great many more people out of their lives, but I will continue to operate under the idea better safe than sorry. Belle
 

brich

New Member
Original Poster
PhotoDave219 said:
There has to be more to this story.... Who was this man? Did he return? Did he have children? Where did he run to? And define running, was this a full on sprint or a fast walk? What did he look like? And so forth.....

There are lots of unanswered questions that youre leaving out here that are crucial to the story.
The story Dave is about how the CM reacted to what I told him. Not what I saw before reporting the incident. How Disney responded to my approaching them. If we need to keep harping on what I saw, that's fine. If this is the avenue some of you want to take, that's cool.

Who was this man? I did not ask this man who he was. No one did. Not me, not the CM who handed tha bag back to him. Not my job to handle this situation any more than I did.

Did he return? Yes. I did not see which way he came from when he returned. I was facing the CM with my back to the theater. The Exit was to my right and I did not see him come that way either. Probably because the adreneline had given me a touch of tunnel vision while I watch the CM start to open this package.

Did he have children? When he came down the entire aisle, he was alone. There was no one behind him. I saw no one acknowledge him in any way. When he ran, he ran alone. He ran toward the Exit and out of the theater.

When he returned, I watch him go down towards the front of the theater and sit next to a woman who was sitting alone at the time. My assumption was they were together.

Definition of running... For real Dave? If he was fast walking, why wouldn't I have said he briskly "walked" out of the theater. He ran. I'm no Carl Lewis but in the matter of seconds it took me to respond, he was gone. Out the door. So in simplest terms, he RAN. Maybe at a 4 minute mile pace, I don't know.

What did he look like? Well, as stated above, he had on a Bowling Jacket with a baseball hat on that was pulled low over his forehead just above his eyes. He had a moustache. Wearing jeans. Did not see his eyes as it was dimmly lit in the theater. Did not see what he was wearing on his feet. I would say he was about 5'9 and roughly 180 lbs. Hard to tell with his jacket on.

And so forth... You seem awefully defensive of this story. I'm in no way bashing Disney here. I love the place as much as the next person. If you have any other questions regarding the sitaution, I would be more than happy to do the best I can in answering them. Although I find it totally insane that its going in this direction.

Finally Dave, there is nothing more to this story. I am not intentionally leaving anything out. My original post stated only facts I felt were relative to the question I was asking. There are no crucial pieces to the story being left out. I'm starting to resent the interogation attitude I'm sensing. It's truly amazing to me that you try to do a good, responsible thing and some have to take it to a personal level. I appreciate those who have acknowledged what I did as a positive thing. And I also respect those who feel what I did was reckless. But why take the attitude that I may be hiding facts or not telling the whole story? What do I possibly have to gain?:veryconfu


SpongeScott said:
When I worked at Target, we were told the shoplifters like to work under the assumption that they are "invisible". Therefore, we would approach potential shoplifters or someone that had been caught on cameras stealing and ask them if they needed help. By doing this, we took away their cloak of "invisibility" by noting that we saw them in the store. Many times we stopped a shoplifter from leaving the store with the goods.
All do respect but, shoplifter training at Target? We're not talking about someone stealing a pair of sneakers here. I know what your trying to say but "many" times you stopped them? Not all of them? So your approach is not 100%. It only takes that 1% to cause a tradegy.

SpongeScott said:
My point in this? Don't you think that someone wishing to perform an act of terrorism will not do anything to draw attention to him or herself? Don't you think they would want to be as anonymous as possible so that no one can eyewitness them? How many people saw Eric Rudolph place that knapsack at Centennial Park in Atlanta during the Olympics? Placing a package under a seat and then running out is not a way to remain "invisible" or to remain anonymous. Finding an unattended package with no one around it would draw more attention to me than the way this person left his.
I would think that. Of course successfull attacks have been carried out by people acting anonymous. We only find that out after the fact. Nobody saw Eric Randolph, you are correct. But guess what. If he had placed that knaposack by the phone and ran, somebody would have seen it and possible prevented the tradegy. Someone would have responded, much like I did, because it didn't look right. Maybe thats why successfull attempts work when done quietly and those who run, well, somebody foils the plan.

I can't speak for anybody else in the theater but it didn't appear that anybody, aside from my wife and I, saw this man drop the package. There wasn't anybody behind the seat he placed the package and I'm not sure anybody was paying much attention when he ran. A lot of people probably already had their 3D glasses on waiting for the show, like my two kids. Also, I'm pretty sure there were only 2 rows of seats behind us to the back of the theater. It's not like he ran down the front row. I suppose another fact I should have made clear for those who are assessing my perception of the situation. How did this guy run by the CM without the CM saying anything?

Your making very general assumptions. Had that package exploded, I would have been dead, as would my family. There would have been no one, to the best of my knowledge, that could have described what I already described. So guess what. He would have succeeded and the situation would have gone down as, the perpetraitor acted anonymously. Just maybe someone who perished at Centennial Park saw Eric Rudolph leave the knapsack, but we can't ask them now, can we.:(
 

SpongeScott

Well-Known Member
wannabeBelle said:
Hi Scott, I guess the operative question is would you have been willing to bet your life ( quite literally here) on your assumption that this was nothing? I wouldnt. I would rather "over react" tell a CM, get Disney security involved and have it be someone's lunch that he forgot or dropped, then to have done nothing and it did turn out to be something a lot more sinister!!!! Again maybe it has something to do with where I live, and the fact that it hit VERY close to home and I did lose people I knew and some other people lost a great many more people out of their lives, but I will continue to operate under the idea better safe than sorry. Belle
I think it comes down to a difference on how we see and perceive things. I'm not bashing the OP for what he did; my stance all along has been that I would not have reacted in that way. Another HUGE difference in this is that 9/11 is much more personal to you than to me in that you were closer and you did know people who lost their lives, so I understand the viewpoint of where you come from. I can honestly tell you that I would not have thought much about it, but my thinking does not lessen the way you feel or how Brich handled the situation.
 

SpongeScott

Well-Known Member
brich said:
The story Dave is about how the CM reacted to what I told him. Not what I saw before reporting the incident. How Disney responded to my approaching them. If we need to keep harping on what I saw, that's fine. If this is the avenue some of you want to take, that's cool.

Who was this man? I did not ask this man who he was. No one did. Not me, not the CM who handed tha bag back to him. Not my job to handle this situation any more than I did.

Did he return? Yes. I did not see which way he came from when he returned. I was facing the CM with my back to the theater. The Exit was to my right and I did not see him come that way either. Probably because the adreneline had given me a touch of tunnel vision while I watch the CM start to open this package.

Did he have children? When he came down the entire aisle, he was alone. There was no one behind him. I saw no one acknowledge him in any way. When he ran, he ran alone. He ran toward the Exit and out of the theater.

When he returned, I watch him go down towards the front of the theater and sit next to a woman who was sitting alone at the time. My assumption was they were together.

Definition of running... For real Dave? If he was fast walking, why wouldn't I have said he briskly "walked" out of the theater. He ran. I'm no Carl Lewis but in the matter of seconds it took me to respond, he was gone. Out the door. So in simplest terms, he RAN. Maybe at a 4 minute mile pace, I don't know.

What did he look like? Well, as stated above, he had on a Bowling Jacket with a baseball hat on that was pulled low over his forehead just above his eyes. He had a moustache. Wearing jeans. Did not see his eyes as it was dimmly lit in the theater. Did not see what he was wearing on his feet. I would say he was about 5'9 and roughly 180 lbs. Hard to tell with his jacket on.

And so forth... You seem awefully defensive of this story. I'm in no way bashing Disney here. I love the place as much as the next person. If you have any other questions regarding the sitaution, I would be more than happy to do the best I can in answering them. Although I find it totally insane that its going in this direction.

Finally Dave, there is nothing more to this story. I am not intentionally leaving anything out. My original post stated only facts I felt were relative to the question I was asking. There are no crucial pieces to the story being left out. I'm starting to resent the interogation attitude I'm sensing. It's truly amazing to me that you try to do a good, responsible thing and some have to take it to a personal level. I appreciate those who have acknowledged what I did as a positive thing. And I also respect those who feel what I did was reckless. But why take the attitude that I may be hiding facts or not telling the whole story? What do I possibly have to gain?:veryconfu


All do respect but, shoplifter training at Target? We're not talking about someone stealing a pair of sneakers here. I know what your trying to say but "many" times you stopped them? Not all of them? So your approach is not 100%. It only takes that 1% to cause a tradegy.

I would think that. Of course successfull attacks have been carried out by people acting anonymous. We only find that out after the fact. Nobody saw Eric Randolph, you are correct. But guess what. If he had placed that knaposack by the phone and ran, somebody would have seen it and possible prevented the tradegy. Someone would have responded, much like I did, because it didn't look right. Maybe thats why successfull attempts work when done quietly and those who run, well, somebody foils the plan.

I can't speak for anybody else in the theater but it didn't appear that anybody, aside from my wife and I, saw this man drop the package. There wasn't anybody behind the seat he placed the package and I'm not sure anybody was paying much attention when he ran. A lot of people probably already had their 3D glasses on waiting for the show, like my two kids. Also, I'm pretty sure there were only 2 rows of seats behind us to the back of the theater. It's not like he ran down the front row. I suppose another fact I should have made clear for those who are assessing my perception of the situation. How did this guy run by the CM without the CM saying anything?

Your making very general assumptions. Had that package exploded, I would have been dead, as would my family. There would have been no one, to the best of my knowledge, that could have described what I already described. So guess what. He would have succeeded and the situation would have gone down as, the perpetraitor acted anonymously. Just maybe someone who perished at Centennial Park saw Eric Rudolph leave the knapsack, but we can't ask them now, can we.:(
I agree and see your point on everything but the last paragraph. You also make general assumptions here. How can you assume that had the package exploded that you and your family would have been killed? You wouldn't have known the power of the explosive device inside or it could have been a prank that released smoke into the air. Because there was no bomb doesn't mean you can say you would have been killed by it because nothing ever existed in the first place. As for Centennial Park, yes it is possible that the two people killed there could have seen Rudolph place the knapsack on the ground, but highly unlikely given the number of people at the park and the time that elapsed from when he dropped it to when it was detonated.

But, we digress. As I said in a previous post to Belle, we simply see this different. I wouldn't have reacted as you, so I don't think there was a breach. No harm, no foul between you and me.:wave:
 

brich

New Member
Original Poster
SpongeScott said:
But, we digress. As I said in a previous post to Belle, we simply see this different. I wouldn't have reacted as you, so I don't think there was a breach. No harm, no foul between you and me.:wave:
Of course not...:D But if we're in Philharmagic together and someone drops a package, don't just hand it off to me. Get out of my way cuz I'm comin' through! :eek: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

shoppingnut

Active Member
How does anyone know that this wasn't a trial run to see what they can get away with, so maybe this time it wasn't real, but next time it just might be for real. These things are not done willy nilly, they are done with lots of planning, site visits, etc. Like the ads in the NYC subway say "If you see something, say something." The police and security can't be everyplace, we need to be their eyes and ears too.

Brich, I'm glad you did what you did, it's folks like you that do make things safer and I'd rather be in a theatre with you than any of these folks who said they'd do nothing.
 

mousermerf

Account Suspended
This whole stupid thing is because:

1. Brich wants to deface Disney. He wants people on this board to think the CM and management are incompitent when they clearly did nothing wrong in the situation.

2. Brich wants to be seen as a "hero." He wants to be favored by board members for his "heroic" actions which a good number of other people think were ridiculous at best.

I can't think of many other reasons to go around denouncing a CM, a total stranger, a manager, and Disney security in general over a NON-ISSUE and NON-EVENT and asking others to questions their judgement other than because he wants to bring himself up.

Well, ya did it kiddo. You got other people to agree with you, you got your praise. Do you feel like a hero? Was it worth the reputation of the other people you're smearing? Is it okay to knock Disney employees and other lesser-park-patrons because you're a shareholder?

You know nothing, you are an idiot, and this is ridiculous.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
mousermerf said:
You know nothing, you are an idiot, and this is ridiculous.

I have asked you this before, please refrain from name calling. It is against the posting etiquette here to do so.
 

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