Scooters

[loveofamouse]

First note, Many Disney drivers do NOT follow transport recommendations for medical equipment. Most can NOT be tied down. Folding wheelchairs are NOT transportation approved. Yet they never tell them they can't ride in it. Scooters can NOT transport a person. Wheelchairs that can be tied down have tie down points. I can post pics of examples. And even then, they REQUIRE the user to use both lap and shoulder belts. That's how they're crash tested. Many deny use of the belts. Drivers say nothing.


As for proving need, again, LAW says they can't specifically ask for medical details. Yes, I agree there should be a check and balance system. I've seen people who NEEDED a scooter or WC get to the parks to find they're all gone with many taken by people who don't need them.


For the 1st on the bus thing, sorry people but get over it. Unless technology makes it different, they have to load them first since the man. room is needed and the benches have to be folded. If there were truly "HUNDREDS" of people waiting for busses, don't blame the disabled. Blame Disney for not recognizing a need to increase busses on that route. Loading a WC or scooter on a bus only takes up 4 seats. Okay, so that's 4 people less on the bus. That would not amount to HUNDREDS of people waiting.

Let me also explain another reason they get loaded first, regardless of getting there last. Many medical conditions also add heat/cold intolerance to the mix. Should these people just be completely not allowed to come to the parks?


Yes, those who deal with real disabilities do get frustrated by abusers. These abusers lead to you walkers having attitudes with the rest of the dis. community. Like a previous poster said, just because someone is in a scooter or park WC doesn't mean they get to the front of the line. Many queues allow them to go right in the regular line. If the queue doesn't support it, they go elsewhere but they still wait. In fact, once, for Dumbo, we waited LONGER than the regular queue. To get the stamp for "alternate entrance," you do have to answer why. For my son, it's autism. Not all of the time do we use it but if we know his stimulation tolerance is running low, we take him to the alt entrance as he's sensitive to crowds.

 

[loveofamouse]

Last week at BLT there was a family of three (Mom, Dad and son). They each had a red rental scooter. We overheard their conversation with another family at the bus stop about how they were so happy that they rented the scooters to get around and that they did not have to walk at the parks. They were able to ride all over the parks and get through lines quicker and mentioned that they were going to do this from now on for every trip. Of course the people they were talking too said they would think about it on their next trip. :brick:This family was not extremely overweight and appeared to walk fine. Another day we had seen them walking from dinner on the concourse in the CR without their scooters and appeard to be moving just fine as the early teen boy was jumping around as if he had a few too many ice cream sundaes at Chef Mickey's that night.

Okay, to that, scooter rentals are expensive! If they want to spen $60 a day each to rent a scooter and not walk...........LOL

 

[gwhb75]

As for the "I'm glad we get on first, I'm beat!" comment, is that ANY different than the WALKER who was first who said that? I mean seriously?! I'd be glad to get on, too!

Ummmm....I think the big difference would be that they've been sitting most of the day in a scooter, while the people in line would have been walking? :brick:

 

[loveofamouse]

Ummmm....I think the big difference would be that they've been sitting most of the day in a scooter, while the people in line would have been walking? :brick:

So what?! Sounds to me like most of you are jealous of scooter users. For some coditions, sitting is just as painful. And you're assuming the person sat all day. For all you know they walked the first three days of their trip and hurt themselves on the last. Seriously, most of what I hear is simple jealousy. A walker can say thank goodness I'm first but a roller can't?! Wow... what else are mobility impaired not allowed to complain or rejoice about? Are you going to complain if a chair user says "ooo my seat is sooo comfy" while you're standing for a parade?

 

[Tater48]

While I agree with a lot of what you have said, this has me puzzled.

Let me also explain another reason they get loaded first, regardless of getting there last. Many medical conditions also add heat/cold intolerance to the mix.
.

How can this matter if they've been in the weather all this time. Is a wait going to matter that much because of this, considering it hasn't mattered up until now. They have spent the day/night in the park already, have they not?

 

[MAF]

You instantly lose the arguement once you pull the "you're just jealous" card.

 

[loveofamouse]

I bet the people complaining of scooter abuse are the same people taking the elevator at the mall instead of the escalator. How many of you use the push buttons for doors when you are fully capable of opening the doors? What about the automatic doors at target when regular doors are right next to them? Circle parking lots for that spot next to the door when there's a spot open 7 cars down? Drive your kids to school when it's less than 1 mile away? How about looking for the closest spot at the gym? All of america is lazy and users.

 

[loveofamouse]

While I agree with a lot of what you have said, this has me puzzled.



How can this matter if they've been in the weather all this time. Is a wait going to matter that much because of this, considering it hasn't mattered up until now. They have spent the day/night in the park already, have they not?

It probably has mattered up til then. Heat/cold int isn't a stable thing. Some days, my son is fine in 75degree temps. Next time, he's overheating. At disney, we hop from building to building so yes, it does matter and does play a part with some.



Yes. JEALOUS.complaining that someone can't say they're happy to get on the bus and get home because they sat all day is a jealous based complaint. You feel like they are rubbing it in. Well to rub it in, you had to have a bit of desire so yes, jealous that that person is sitting.

 

[loveofamouse]

You instantly lose the arguement once you pull the "you're just jealous" card.

There shouldn't be an arguement at all! For someone to start this MESS simply because a person in a scooter (who they perceive to be just lazy with their uneducated exp) said they were spent and apparently had no right to say that since they were sitting down. That is beyond ugly and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that that is such a rediculous statement.

 

[Phonedave]

I bet the people complaining of scooter abuse are the same people taking the elevator at the mall instead of the escalator. How many of you use the push buttons for doors when you are fully capable of opening the doors? What about the automatic doors at target when regular doors are right next to them? Circle parking lots for that spot next to the door when there's a spot open 7 cars down? Drive your kids to school when it's less than 1 mile away? How about looking for the closest spot at the gym? All of america is lazy and users.

Actually, I do none of that. And I no longer go to the gym - I just run outside in the cold.

Anyway

The part about people getting on line for the bus does irk me a bit, but I cannot see how to solve it.

Lets say, just to make the example easy, a bus can hold 10 people and ECV's take up no extra room.

We have a line with 20 people on it waiting for a bus. Just before the bus pulls up, someone with an ECV arrives and is now put on first. That means the people who were #11 and #20 in line now get bumped back, and have to wait for an additional bus. - Why ?. Why shouldn't the person in the ECV go to the BACK of the line and wait, just like everyone else.


I understand why it is hard to 'fix'. Lets say there are 23 people in the line. The ECV person pulls up and gets in the back of the line. Two buses come by and take a total of 20 people. The next bus comes by and three people get on, then the ECV goes to get on. Now you have to unload the 3 people, get the ECV on, then re-load the people. That is what makes it difficult to put an ECV into the queue (and the configuration of some of the queues as well). If there was an easy way for ECV users to queue up with everyone else, then I say thats what should happen.


-dave

 

[MAF]

The people who are getting upset are obviously the ones who are using ECV's.

 

[Tater48]

The people who are getting upset are obviously the ones who are using ECV's.

Exactly. That's what it's getting to.

Yes. JEALOUS.complaining that someone can't say they're happy to get on the bus and get home because they sat all day is a jealous based complaint. You feel like they are rubbing it in. Well to rub it in, you had to have a bit of desire so yes, jealous that that person is sitting.

If you're referring to me being jealous, not by a long shot. I can't remember the last time I sat on a bus going from MK to our resort. I'm still the type that give's up my seat to the elderly or a mother holding a sleeping baby. I've already been on my feet all day and that extra 20 minutes to the resort isn't going to hurt me. I guess what bothers me is the "extended" family that is there with them. Last trip they loaded 2 scooters(6 seats) and by the time the entourage loaded, they had taken up 19 seats on this bus. Would any of the able bodied teens or young men in these two groups offer their seat to one of the many mothers holding those sleeping babies or one of the elderly ladies standing in front of them trying their best to hold on? Not on your life.

 

[Lord Pheonix]

i say we all get scooters and watch the pandimonium

 

[loveofamouse]

The way you people target a particular demographic and use of derogatory labels such as "fatty" is just disgusting. You just don't get it. You are ASSUMING 100% of ecv users are abusers or overweight. You are ASSUMING those that are overweight simply use them because they are lazy. Do you know how mich wheelchairs cost? Some ins companies won't pay for them leaving patients with scooters as the only option. Some don't even get that. My grandmother is damnnear 70. She's had repeated knee surgeries and kidney surgery. Because of her knees and age, she's gained weight. Although she LOOKS good for her age, shed use a scooter at the park. In regular everyday, she walks everywhere. I wish someone would give her nasty looks for loading a bus first or saying she's tired.

The reason the family loads with them is because of the impaired person loads but family gets to the back, they could end up 4 busses apart. Now, from what I understand and have seen, if its a large party, they do split them but not to the complete back. They have them load with the next people. If you're complaining that their family of 5 loaded first, get over yourselves. You are seriously talking about 5 people. In fact, on our last trip, it was just me, my husband, and 3 kids, one a wc user, one in a stroller. There were times that drivers only let one parent load with my child while the other loaded with the other two kids. This resulted in us getting split up often.



Its one thing to discuss ways wdw could prevent abuse such as joyriders or teens but to target a group and try to come up with degrading remarks about them is inhumane. The reason discussions like this get locked everytime is because some of can't keep it a healthy discussion without turning it to fat bashing! "Triple wide parents" what did that have to do with ECV use? You guys don't want to discuss ways to make it better. You want to rant about "fatties" and "fat" ecv users only. Nevermind the skinny person abusing it, too. Nope, just the fat ones. But don't worry. Your ranting is furthering the decisions for many to just rent or take cars. We don't want to inconvienance you walkers out of 5 seats.

You aren't even targeting the skinny fakers or young fakers or fakers getting wheelchairs. Why not? Fakers renting WCs get the same treatment as ECV users. You are only targeting fat ECV users. But you act surprised that ANYONE says those remarks are wrong.
As for MAF, if you could READ, you'd know I'm not a scooter user despite disability acquired while serving my country. My CHILD is a wheelchair user. To hear people say that the disabled community should be segregated MORE is just horrid.

 

[loveofamouse]

Actually, I do none of that. And I no longer go to the gym - I just run outside in the cold.

Anyway

The part about people getting on line for the bus does irk me a bit, but I cannot see how to solve it.

Lets say, just to make the example easy, a bus can hold 10 people and ECV's take up no extra room.

We have a line with 20 people on it waiting for a bus. Just before the bus pulls up, someone with an ECV arrives and is now put on first. That means the people who were #11 and #20 in line now get bumped back, and have to wait for an additional bus. - Why ?. Why shouldn't the person in the ECV go to the BACK of the line and wait, just like everyone else.


I understand why it is hard to 'fix'. Lets say there are 23 people in the line. The ECV person pulls up and gets in the back of the line. Two buses come by and take a total of 20 people. The next bus comes by and three people get on, then the ECV goes to get on. Now you have to unload the 3 people, get the ECV on, then re-load the people. That is what makes it difficult to put an ECV into the queue (and the configuration of some of the queues as well). If there was an easy way for ECV users to queue up with everyone else, then I say thats what should happen.


-dave

At least a productive post

Unfortunately, targeting at the bus level means that ALL disabled patrons are targetted. Change is needed at the rental level but, unfortunately, that can't happen either. There are just way too many conditions that may have a person using an ECV OR WC, even just simple old age. On top of that, there are so many outside agencies renting. Well, those people that rent ECVs and WCs in the park CAN'T take them to the busses. They have to return them prior to that. Therefore, the ECVs and WCs at the busses are rented or privately owned. Disney can't tell someone they can't bring their privately owned unit to the park. Those people that are renting from outside DME vendors have to get them back to the hotels somehow. Having private transportation just for the mobility impaired...well that could solve the inconvienence problem but would be costly to have a WC bus for each hotel route or result in a long line of WCs for a single bus. If the driver starts targetting, that's descrimination.

One possible solution to the space issue would be loading the ECV to an outside holder, like on cars. But that person would still need to load first so they go with their ECV. As for the rest of the party, like I said, it's truly up to the drivers what they want to do. Some let them load. Some split the party. Splitting, though, isn't always the answer either. Just like I stated above with my family.

As far as those party's people not giving up seats, that goes back to an old arguement about seat giving, in general. Some feel it's sexist. Some feel entitled. Regardless of that, that person wouldn't have given up their seat regardless of who they got on the bus with. Rather it was with an overweight ECV using uncle, a brother with CP, or just happen to have been in the right place in line to board and get a seat.


And let's be for real, the percentage of ECV/WC users that are faking or being "lazy" is a small percentage of that population. Many are older or have hidden disabilities. Also, the bus situation at the end of the day at any park is a madhouse regardless of how it's done. No matter which way they do it, someone is going to be unhappy.

 

[Phonedave]

At least a productive post

Thanks,

I was about to respond to your other post, then I saw this response. You will notice that my comments are not geared to 'fatties', 'fakers', 'skinny people', 'teens', 'elderly' or any other sub-set (or perceived sub-set)

When I address problems with wheelchairs and ECV's I address problems with the DEVICES THEMSELVES, not the people that are using them.

Unfortunately, targeting at the bus level means that ALL disabled patrons are targetted. Change is needed at the rental level but, unfortunately, that can't happen either. There are just way too many conditions that may have a person using an ECV OR WC, even just simple old age. On top of that, there are so many outside agencies renting. Well, those people that rent ECVs and WCs in the park CAN'T take them to the busses. They have to return them prior to that. Therefore, the ECVs and WCs at the busses are rented or privately owned. Disney can't tell someone they can't bring their privately owned unit to the park. Those people that are renting from outside DME vendors have to get them back to the hotels somehow. Having private transportation just for the mobility impaired...well that could solve the inconvienence problem but would be costly to have a WC bus for each hotel route or result in a long line of WCs for a single bus. If the driver starts targetting, that's descrimination.

Quite honestly, I don't care who is on the ECV or Wheelchair. It could be a 22 y/o track star. To me (an able bodied, in shape person with no medical issues, who is cognizant every day of just how lucky that is) I would not want an ECV if you gave me one - it is way to much of a hassle. But if someone wants to pay $60 a day to wheel about the park, get stuck in small places, and view everything from a 10 year olds persepctive, then thats fine with me. However they should not be accorded benefits just for the sake of a benefit.

If somone has a disability, you accomidate it. If somone has a missing leg, or some other reason that they cannot stand, then you accomidate that - by all means. But if they can wait in line, then they still wait in line. If somone has a disability where they cannot wait in line (and there are many) then those people get to skip lines. There are many people in EVCs and wheelchairs that want to be treated just the same as everyone else, as far as their abilites will let them. When you start adding accomidations on (such as line skipping, either at parks or on busses) just because the person is in a chair, thats where problems start. If those accomidations were only provided to those that had a need, I am sure a lot fewer people would see a benefit in renting a $60 a day ECV when they dont have to.

One possible solution to the space issue would be loading the ECV to an outside holder, like on cars. But that person would still need to load first so they go with their ECV. As for the rest of the party, like I said, it's truly up to the drivers what they want to do. Some let them load. Some split the party. Splitting, though, isn't always the answer either. Just like I stated above with my family.

As far as those party's people not giving up seats, that goes back to an old arguement about seat giving, in general. Some feel it's sexist. Some feel entitled. Regardless of that, that person wouldn't have given up their seat regardless of who they got on the bus with. Rather it was with an overweight ECV using uncle, a brother with CP, or just happen to have been in the right place in line to board and get a seat.

If the person has a need to board first (not a need for the ECV, a need to board first) I have no problems with the entire family getting on with them. It is a small impact to my day. But if the person in the ECV/wheelchair can wait, then the family waits with them (but then we get into the loading issues from my other post)

And let's be for real, the percentage of ECV/WC users that are faking or being "lazy" is a small percentage of that population. Many are older or have hidden disabilities. Also, the bus situation at the end of the day at any park is a madhouse regardless of how it's done. No matter which way they do it, someone is going to be unhappy.

Very true. Then you also get into the issue of comfort. Grandma may be ABLE to walk around WDW, but she may not ENJOY it. An ECV may make the trip much more plesant for her. How do you 'rule' on that - you can't. So you solve the problem by simply accomidating according to needs.

The problem is, in this uber-PC society, nobody is allowed to ask about needs or require any sort of documentation. There has to be a happy medium. A CM should not be able to require 2 doctors notes, a complete set of X-rays, and demand to see your perscriptions. On the other hand a guest should not be able to walk in and say "My kid is disabled, he can't wait in line, I need a pass" and get one. The CM should be able to say "What is the problem?" and maybe ask for some sort of simple 'evidence' - just a note, a description of the problem, something like that. But we have become so PC, that if the CM even suggests somthing along those lines, it is law suit time.

I am really beginning to think the greater part of the population is disabled - we all seem to have lost the ability to use common sense.


-dave

 

[cblodg]

We were down at the World a couple weeks ago and experienced the ECV/Wheelchair on the buses first-hand. I want to start this off with a question: Why is it that someone in a wheelchair can stay in the wheelchair but someone in an ECV has to transfer out into a seat?

I ask that question because one day returning from the parks we had a 30 minute wait (SSR buses were terrible) with two people in ECVs. These two were loaded and we saw they had to take a seat. Now, where they put the ECV takes up a total of six (6) seats and now you have to take up two more seats because the people can't stay in their ECVs. That's eight seats gone. None of their family was allowed to accompany them on the bus at the time they were loaded, but still, eight seats gone.

One night we were at EPCOT and we waited in line for 30 minutes for a bus. There was already one ECV waiting so we were fine with that. The bus driver loaded the ECV then started to board the rest of the line. Suddenly this family of 5 comes running up with a kid in a clearly over-sized wheelchair (this kid couldn't have been more then 7 and he was in a adult wheelchair and he wasn't big for his age). The bus driver stopped loading people and even started telling people they'd have to get off the bus. At that point people in the line and on the bus started grousing and the father told the driver they would wait. At which point the kid in the wheelchair got up and started hopping around asking why they weren't being loaded.

The ride back to SSR was interesting at best. I'm sorry, but you cannot show up at the last minute and EXPECT preferential treatment, which is exactly what this family wanted. If you see a bus is being loaded and the people have been there for 30 minutes, you do not get to just stroll up to the front of the line and get a seat. And the little kid getting out of the over-sized chair and hopping around didn't help the dad's case.

I think this situation people had every right to complain and not allow them to board. We had been waiting for 30 minutes. These people were no where to be found after the ECV was loaded and then 'general' boarding began. And to run up to the bus and EXPECT to get on board is wrong, no matter how you put it.

 

[loveofamouse]

We were down at the World a couple weeks ago and experienced the ECV/Wheelchair on the buses first-hand. I want to start this off with a question: Why is it that someone in a wheelchair can stay in the wheelchair but someone in an ECV has to transfer out into a seat?

I ask that question because one day returning from the parks we had a 30 minute wait (SSR buses were terrible) with two people in ECVs. These two were loaded and we saw they had to take a seat. Now, where they put the ECV takes up a total of six (6) seats and now you have to take up two more seats because the people can't stay in their ECVs. That's eight seats gone. None of their family was allowed to accompany them on the bus at the time they were loaded, but still, eight seats gone.

One night we were at EPCOT and we waited in line for 30 minutes for a bus. There was already one ECV waiting so we were fine with that. The bus driver loaded the ECV then started to board the rest of the line. Suddenly this family of 5 comes running up with a kid in a clearly over-sized wheelchair (this kid couldn't have been more then 7 and he was in a adult wheelchair and he wasn't big for his age). The bus driver stopped loading people and even started telling people they'd have to get off the bus. At that point people in the line and on the bus started grousing and the father told the driver they would wait. At which point the kid in the wheelchair got up and started hopping around asking why they weren't being loaded.

The ride back to SSR was interesting at best. I'm sorry, but you cannot show up at the last minute and EXPECT preferential treatment, which is exactly what this family wanted. If you see a bus is being loaded and the people have been there for 30 minutes, you do not get to just stroll up to the front of the line and get a seat. And the little kid getting out of the over-sized chair and hopping around didn't help the dad's case.

I think this situation people had every right to complain and not allow them to board. We had been waiting for 30 minutes. These people were no where to be found after the ECV was loaded and then 'general' boarding began. And to run up to the bus and EXPECT to get on board is wrong, no matter how you put it.

I've already answered the ride in question repeatedly. Please go back to pages 9 and 10l.


As for users, yeah, they are there. As a parent, I don't mind answering simpler questions like "what's the dx/problem?" When they want more technical, personal answers, I get iffy. Sea world did that to us, even wanting me to, repeatedly, take my son out of his chair and stand him up. That was crazy and offensive and my son CAN stand. I couldn't imagine being a parent of a child that needed 100% support, body and head, to get into a standing position. Hey, let me throw my back out BEFORE enjoying your park! lol


When we were at Disney this past summer, I saw plenty of "fakers." In fact, I saw a family loading our bus at the hotel who's daughter was using a wheelchair they obviously purchased from CL. See, most people don't know that WCs are custom made to the users measurements. They are made to be as small as possible for ease of use. Well, this kid's chair was big enough for a teen/small adult but she was about 7ish. It was also a folding chair that shouldn't have been buckled down. It's not bus approved. Then it had no footplate but a disney luggage strap for a foot plate. This raised flags for me (Im a very tech. minded person, even with medical equipment. I can quote all kindsa safety laws and specs for differenct models lol OCD, yes). Well, later in the trip, we just happened to be standing next to this family for the fireworks at the Hub. I got into conversation with the mom. She told me they did buy the chair from CL because they couldn't get her ortho to write a script for one. The child had a hip problem where her hip was constantly slipping out of joint leaving her in pain for prolonged walking. I told her how to get around that with Tricare and helped the family but that really taught me a lesson on making assumptions.

Same trip, I saw a family walk over to the bus loading at the hotel with a rental WC. The dad tells the boy to sit in the chair so they could get in the WC line and load behind us. The boy comes running over and plops in the oversized chair and kicks with glee as he goes up the lift. The crowd and my DH gave this man the nastiest looks. Everyone but the driver heard him. I just loudly said to my husband, "I would trade WC lines for a healthy child ANY DAY!" People continued to make remarks about the family through the whole ride. Dad at least had the decency to fold the chair on the bus and have the kid sit. He didn't open his mouth the entire ride.

Unfortunatly, Science hasn't found a cure for stupidity, ignorance, or a lack of morals.

 

[loveofamouse]

Thanks,

I was about to respond to your other post, then I saw this response. You will notice that my comments are not geared to 'fatties', 'fakers', 'skinny people', 'teens', 'elderly' or any other sub-set (or perceived sub-set)

No, not you.

When I address problems with wheelchairs and ECV's I address problems with the DEVICES THEMSELVES, not the people that are using them.

As a family dealing with WCs and crap, ECVs are a PIMA. lol. I think everyone who has a medical condition should just use a WC. They're easier to manuever and custom fitted and fit everywhere. Scooters aren't. That said, I recognize that some people would only use them for occasions like that, like my Gma. Actually, I was going to rent my Gma a powerchair from an outside company



Quite honestly, I don't care who is on the ECV or Wheelchair. It could be a 22 y/o track star. To me (an able bodied, in shape person with no medical issues, who is cognizant every day of just how lucky that is) I would not want an ECV if you gave me one - it is way to much of a hassle. But if someone wants to pay $60 a day to wheel about the park, get stuck in small places, and view everything from a 10 year olds persepctive, then thats fine with me. However they should not be accorded benefits just for the sake of a benefit.

Totally agreed but how to you weed them out?:shrug: Personally, I think the GAC cards being checked at busses would help. Only taking those with actual, personal WC or "alt. ent" stamps as head of the line. Put the others in queue. But that has faults, too. I think it is a HUGE step with Disney modifying these queues. That makes it easier to say everyone in this line unless you have this stamp cause even many "real" disabled people don't need head of the line and don't mind regular queueing.

If somone has a disability, you accomidate it. If somone has a missing leg, or some other reason that they cannot stand, then you accomidate that - by all means. But if they can wait in line, then they still wait in line. If somone has a disability where they cannot wait in line (and there are many) then those people get to skip lines. There are many people in EVCs and wheelchairs that want to be treated just the same as everyone else, as far as their abilites will let them. When you start adding accomidations on (such as line skipping, either at parks or on busses) just because the person is in a chair, thats where problems start. If those accomidations were only provided to those that had a need, I am sure a lot fewer people would see a benefit in renting a $60 a day ECV when they dont have to.



If the person has a need to board first (not a need for the ECV, a need to board first) I have no problems with the entire family getting on with them. It is a small impact to my day. But if the person in the ECV/wheelchair can wait, then the family waits with them (but then we get into the loading issues from my other post)

With DH and I, we have no problem telling a driver to skip us if we happen to walk up at the last second before the bus pulled up AND the line was so long that, ordinarily, we would not have ended up on that bus. If there's only 10 people in line, then whatever. lol Cause we would have been on that bus anyways.



Very true. Then you also get into the issue of comfort. Grandma may be ABLE to walk around WDW, but she may not ENJOY it. An ECV may make the trip much more plesant for her. How do you 'rule' on that - you can't. So you solve the problem by simply accomidating according to needs.

The problem is, in this uber-PC society, nobody is allowed to ask about needs or require any sort of documentation. There has to be a happy medium. A CM should not be able to require 2 doctors notes, a complete set of X-rays, and demand to see your perscriptions. On the other hand a guest should not be able to walk in and say "My kid is disabled, he can't wait in line, I need a pass" and get one. The CM should be able to say "What is the problem?" and maybe ask for some sort of simple 'evidence' - just a note, a description of the problem, something like that. But we have become so PC, that if the CM even suggests somthing along those lines, it is law suit time.

I am really beginning to think the greater part of the population is disabled - we all seem to have lost the ability to use common sense.


-dave

I agree on being over PC, but, on the flip side, some have no sense of tact or decency. I wrote a blog about this. I have no problems answering questions about my son. If you want to know how does his chair work? I'll tell you. If you are curious why a walking child uses a chair, I'll answer happily. Many parents of SN kids feel this way as we want the world to accept our kids and the only way that's going to happen is with education. But, some just don't have tact or common sense. That's where being PC comes from. There have been times that GS have asked why did my son need alt. entrance. I told them he's autistic and can't handle the closeness and crowds and has slightly delayed comprehension so may not understand why we are in a ride for a line but not getting on a ride. He's almost 6 but truly grasp that concept(and others) as a 2yr old would. They say ok and we're done.

Alot of these problems could be solved with better personnel training, honestly. Teach your people how to talk to guests and how to question the right people. Show CMs how to catch liars lol.

 

[CleveRocks]

I totally agree with you...except for the FACT that most of the people who use those scooters do not have any disability...oh except they are morbidly obese! Me and my husband have run into this problem multiple times...yes we are fairly young and we live in NYC, so we are not strangers to public transportation (and the standing that goes along with that), but it does seem unfair that we have to wait 10-15 MORE minutes to board the bus than the distant relatives and friends of a fatty...ok...rant over! :lol:

Maybe, just MAYBE you can open your mind to this question ... which came first, the obesity or the physical ailment?

I'm a therapist, I work with people who've been in catastrophic accidents. As fragile as our bodies are, it's amazing how resilient they are also, but more importantl;y, how resilient the human spirit is in many individuals.

Imagine someone who had multiple orthopedic injuries, spent months and months as an inpatient at a rehab hospital, and then months or years doing outpatient therapies.

As hard as some of them work ... well, as the nursery rhyme goes, All the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again. Some injuries persist.

Thing is, with your keen eye, you won't know it by looking at them. You can't see a lower back injury that acts up only after hours on the feet or after intense exercise. You can't see a knee that gives out after 500 yards of walking. You can't see a hip or an ankle problem, either. You also can't see a brain injury, which causes physical loss of function and/or pain not because of an injury to a limb or joint but rather due to an injury to the part of the brain that controls those body parts. These are injuries that don't cause a problem when one walks what we call "normal household distances" but will cause intense pain and/or loss of function after varying amounts of exercise/exertion.

Injuries like this can make normal maintenance aerobic exercise difficult or impossible. Sad, but true. Inability to exercise + possibly depression from not being able to work and/or undergoing huge life changes = high likelihood of weight gain.

Every week, I see good people, people of character, people with a fighting spirit that you and I probably don't have within us ... but they've gained a lot of weight due to this combination of circumstances that was started by a drunk driver or a fall at work (I treat LOTS of construction workers).

Surely this isn't everyone using an ECV, but to see you disgustingly disrespect them and call them "fatties" ... be very proud of yourself, and hope that you never sustain a catastrophic injury and spend years rehabbing from it, only to have some yahoo call you names.