Scooters

[shatech]

We jst got back from a week at disney, we stayed at Coronado Springs. I have to say our visit was pretty great. We have been to Disney enough times not to have the "manic" feeling of having to do everything. I do agree that the scooter and wheelchair issue are getting out of hand. We spoke with many many other guests who feel the same way. Not sure what the solution is....Dr. notes? separate transports? Not sure, but there has to be a better way.................... Any suggestions? There are obviously people who need a scooter or wheelchair, but for every one person that needs one I am pretty sure there is one that does not. If obesity is an excuse then heaven help us!

 

[loveofamouse]

Obesity is not the only excuse. I've seen people misuse when it came to their kids. My son is one of those with a hidden disability. He's actually undx'ed for his mobility disorder. The docs just don't know what it is. To top it off, he's autistic so yes, we do get to "jump the line." Honestly, I'd rather have a child I CAN stand in line with. i would love for him to see the awesomely themed lines. Some queues he's never seen!

Like a PP said, just as there are rude walkers, there's rude rollers. The only reason they are more notable is because they are expected to be quiet, hidden, and...disabled. Not saying anyone here but many people truly think all wheelchair users are mute and cognitively impaired. You'll be amazed how many people talk OVER my son or don't include him at all when he's using his chair. Then he turns and speaks or gets up and walk and they act amazed. I, myself, have my own disability and I refuse to use adaptive devices for now. I just tough it up BUT not everyone has the same disability, mindset, or pain threshhold.

I do find offense at the remark of "triple wide parents with double wide strollers..." I'm sorry does my fatness in public offend you? So single wide parents with single strollers are totally cool?! Wow.......

While I recognize that there are people who gen. have to use temporary scooters (injury, surgery, hidden dis, exercise intolerance due to med. cond, etc), there are many who use them just because. I knew a woman who got her 11yr old a WC at Disney because she had an arm cast. Seriously?! Some people do it because they WANT the attention. Should Disney ask for documentation? No. Besides the break in HIPPA laws, what about travellers who didn't know they needed one? I do think there should be SOME control but I have no answers as to how.


Wheelchairs load busses first because of space and room for maneuvering. Also, so people don't sit in those seats needed then get an attitude when asked to move. on the opposite side, if people are already sitting there, I've yet to see a driver make them get up. Personally, i felt bad making the crowd wait for my son to be loaded but that's cause some drivers were slow and I would pitch in and help. There have been times I waved the bus on because we walked up at the last second. Other times, I went ahead and loaded. At BB, the bus had only 2-3 people on it, plenty of room for a WC. The driver pulled off and left us but another bus didn't show up for 90MIN!!! DH was ticked!


As for the "I'm glad we get on first, I'm beat!" comment, is that ANY different than the WALKER who was first who said that? I mean seriously?! I'd be glad to get on, too!

 

[PirateFrank]

Obesity should never be an excuse. ever. Does Obesity create medical conditions that immobilize people? sure. But Im not sure you're going to find many obese people on ECVs @ WDW that have documentable medical conditions? Why? it's not a policy at WDW.....and that's downright sad.

The abuse of the transportation system and the ride queueing by people on ECV's is disgraceful...and could be mitigated by a change in policy that forces people renting ECVs from WDW to document their condition or if they want to bring a foreign scooter in to the park, to document their need for it.

Then, no one could complain that the system is being abused....because WDW would be addressing the problem with a policy. Instead, they look the other way and allow anyone sitting on a scooter....to get into the park.

The result is that people (and sometimes their party) can advance to the head of a queue in a ride (please, don't sit there with a straight face and say not so) or get preferential treatment on a disney bus at the end of a long day with hundreds of people waiting for said bus.

This subject is a real sore in my side...and I rarely have a complaint about anything WDW does, except for this. Back in August, my wife, DS (7) and DD (4) were waiting for a bus for over 45 minutes at the end of a night at the MK. We watched over 10 buses collect people from our line and move on. The line behind us was several hundred people long. A guy weighing between 400-500 pounds wheels up on a scooter with his 12 person family to the front of the line. The next bus arrives....and we wait for another 25 minutes as they strap this fat slob's scooter in. Then, he gets right up, waddles over to a bench seat, with relatively no trouble....takes up two of them...and his entire family gets on the bus.

We finally get on, listening to this family gloat about how great it is for their uncle to get them on the bus and skip the line.

NOT cool.

I'm not thin. I spent the whole day trudging around the park...my feet hurt, I was carrying my daughter...and the last thing I expected was to have to watch a fat slob game the system and then gloat about it.


Sorry....this *is* a problem at WDW. I'm sorry that people who legitimately drive these things are offended. But you should be JUST as offended at the idea that someone is gaming a system designed for your benefit. seriously.

 

[WonderlandAlice]

It seems like this thread took 9 pages to get to the heart of what is really eating people about this issue.

I hope I'm not talking out of turn but it appears that most people who object to ECV's (and almost never w/c's) are objecting to the casual use of them by people with weight issues who at least outwardly have no other health complaint warranting such assistance.

Does WDW require documentation before hiring these scooters the way they do for GAC's? If the scooters (and again, I don't mean wheelchairs) were only available to guests with quantifiable medical conditions there would likely be a noticeable drop in their use and I think the majority of guests who dislike them would have less of a quarrel with them.

My last visit in 2003, we noticed a staggering number of ECV's compared to what we had observed elsewhere among the general public. I don't mean to offend but it seems like either a much higher proportion of people with disabilities visit WDW or at least some people are taking advantage.

 

[TiggersPooh]

SCOOTERS can be EVIL!

 

[mickey2008.1]

While we there there last week, there were many scooters, some justifiable, which were obvious as they were not rented scooters, no stickers, no phone numbers. And others were a blatant misuse. As for the bus, we never sat in a specified handicap/scooter seat because they were not for us as the sign says, but some others did, and they were large people, and when asked to move for a scooter, they refused and used the big people excuse. Unacceptable! Move your fat butt and let the driver do his job and procure the person in the scooter, a younger kid who obviously needed it. Then you have this man

Nothing like a good smoke in a scooter!!!!!!:brick:

 

[MAF]

Obesity should never be an excuse. ever.

PREACH!

Oh and if someone is in such poor health that they need to use an ECV, why would you be smoking cigarettes?

 

[mickey2008.1]

PREACH!

Oh and if someone is in such poor health that they need to use an ECV, why would you be smoking cigarettes?

My point exactly!!!!

 

[joannecasey]

I find the amount of people that judge others quite alarming. Agreed, there probably are many people who abuse the use of scooters, and agreed, it is probably annyoing. However .... these people are not in your daily lives ... the time that you have to "deal" with them is minimal.

From the sounds of some people, the only people apparently who should be let through the gates are people in excellent health who can walk and stand the entire day. Take a look around the world ... people come in all different shapes and sizes, all different makes and models ... and not one of you know any intimate details of the people you are judging. I myself am not a tiny woman, about 30 pounds overweight and I walk every inch of those parks from morning until nightfall ... but would I judge someone who claims that they can't ... that's not for me to do.

A big argument is that overweight people "did it to themselves". So what about the adventurer who maybe was injured while rock climbing, or a race car driver who was disabled in an accident. Should these people also be banned from enjoying Disney with their families because their injuries or disabilities were "self inflicted" ?

Differences are what makes the world interesting and nobody likes to be judged. Focus on your own vacation and if you are inconvenienced for a few minutes on your trip to DISNEY WORLD, then let it slide ! Do you know how many people there are in this world who never get to experience the magic that you do ?

Acceptance and tolerance are so important and we need a little more of it in today's world !

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Beliefs aside, I feel that there is one major issue that Disney needs to address with scooters. When someone brings their scooter on to a bus, I feel that they should be required to sit on it. On my last trip a husband and wife both rolled up on scooters to get on the bus. They were both loaded on and then both of them sat in regular seats. This was now 8 seats that were taken up by only 2 people during the morning rush hour. I believe that if an individual feels that they need an ECV to get through the parks, then there is no reason that they can't continue to sit on it for their trip to the park.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Maybe pedal scooters is the answer, burn calories off the salad dodgers and slow down the octogenarian speed freaks

 

[Phonedave]

Beliefs aside, I feel that there is one major issue that Disney needs to address with scooters. When someone brings their scooter on to a bus, I feel that they should be required to sit on it. On my last trip a husband and wife both rolled up on scooters to get on the bus. They were both loaded on and then both of them sat in regular seats. This was now 8 seats that were taken up by only 2 people during the morning rush hour. I believe that if an individual feels that they need an ECV to get through the parks, then there is no reason that they can't continue to sit on it for their trip to the park.

It is in fact just the opposite. In many cases motor carrage law and insurance policies require the people to be NOT on their ECV. The ECV hold down system is not designed to hold an EVC in place with a person on board. Yes, I know, it seems crazy - it is perfectly OK to have people standing while holding small kids, but that's how it is. I have seen drivers tell people who wanted to remain in their EVC that they could not, and had to take a seat.



To address another issue that was brought up, and I really have no answer for. When I go to the mall, the outlet stores, other amusement parks (not in Orlando), or anywhere else people tend to go for recreation I only see a few scooters. Now I understand the special circumstance of WDW - grandparents wanting to take the family, the amount of elderly who live in Florida, and the fact that WDW is 'special' and while a family might not take a person who needs a scooter to the mall, WDW is a differnt story. Those reasons may explain some of the 'extra' scooters at WDW, but not all of them. Why are there so many? They really don't bother me, unless they are rude, but then that pertains to all people. I just somtimes wonder at the amazing amount of them that are in use at WDW.


-dave

 

[PhilharMagician]

Last week at BLT there was a family of three (Mom, Dad and son). They each had a red rental scooter. We overheard their conversation with another family at the bus stop about how they were so happy that they rented the scooters to get around and that they did not have to walk at the parks. They were able to ride all over the parks and get through lines quicker and mentioned that they were going to do this from now on for every trip. Of course the people they were talking too said they would think about it on their next trip. :brick:This family was not extremely overweight and appeared to walk fine. Another day we had seen them walking from dinner on the concourse in the CR without their scooters and appeard to be moving just fine as the early teen boy was jumping around as if he had a few too many ice cream sundaes at Chef Mickey's that night.

On Monday Dec 13 we stopped back at the room late morning and had the TV on and the TV show The View was on as we were packing to change resorts for the next day. Well, Whoopie Goldberg who was at Epcot over the previous weekend narrorating for the Candlelight went into a rant about scooters and their operators beeping and yelling, with many operators being extremely overweight and really need to be walking instead of sitting.

There are many people in this world that are really handicapped and need the help of these motorized devices The problem is the people that really do not need them and feel either entitled or are just plain lazy are tarnishing the needs of the truely disabled.

Every time I go to Disney since Wall-E came out I laugh and think about the people on the space ship that could no longer walk because they were in a society that was driven by Buy-N-Large. The charaters were so overweight and just could not move. Unfortunately there are many similarities.

 

[LilWalt]

I have learned to never get into a discussion on this forum about lines or things like that. Just a warning for you. It gets ugly.

 

[rsoxguy]

Were any of the people in these stories doing drugs and hiring escorts? Hmmm...

 

[Pioneer Hall]

It is in fact just the opposite. In many cases motor carrage law and insurance policies require the people to be NOT on their ECV. The ECV hold down system is not designed to hold an EVC in place with a person on board. Yes, I know, it seems crazy - it is perfectly OK to have people standing while holding small kids, but that's how it is. I have seen drivers tell people who wanted to remain in their EVC that they could not, and had to take a seat.



To address another issue that was brought up, and I really have no answer for. When I go to the mall, the outlet stores, other amusement parks (not in Orlando), or anywhere else people tend to go for recreation I only see a few scooters. Now I understand the special circumstance of WDW - grandparents wanting to take the family, the amount of elderly who live in Florida, and the fact that WDW is 'special' and while a family might not take a person who needs a scooter to the mall, WDW is a differnt story. Those reasons may explain some of the 'extra' scooters at WDW, but not all of them. Why are there so many? They really don't bother me, unless they are rude, but then that pertains to all people. I just somtimes wonder at the amazing amount of them that are in use at WDW.


-dave

Interesting. I only say this because I have seen numerous people sit on their scooters while on a bus as well. I guess it depends on what rules the driver may or may not have to follow. Having seen it before though, I figured it was allowed and most people choose not to do it for their own comfort.

 

[fosse76]

Now that seems to be the sensible way to look at it. I find it outrageous that a group of 5, 7, or more people should be entitled to go to the front of the line for everything and not have to wait just because one person has a disability. I understand some have special needs that need to be accomodated, but that does not mean that the rest of their family, who are able to move about perfectly fine, is entitled to move ahead of everyone else in line. Accomodate the person, not the entire group.

To me, the sensible way of doing this would be to say to the person with the disability, "Here's what can happen. If you would like to board this bus, we will accomodate you and board you first. However, since there were guests already in line ahead of you, the rest of your family will have to wait for the next bus. If you would like to ride the bus with your family, then you can wait for the next bus to come and we will be able to accomodate all of you on then."

That gives an option to the person in the scooter. If they want to get on the bus right away, they are more than welcome to, understanding that the rest of their group will have to wait for the next bus. Should they not want to seperate, then the entire group, including the person in the scooter, can wait for the next bus.

Agreed. I hate when I've been waiting for three busses and someone in a scooter shows up and boards right away. They aren't entitled to immediate boarding under ANY reading of the ADA. PLUS let's not forget, that many people in the scooters aren't disabled, and that the ADA only applies to people with strictly defined disabilities.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Agreed. I hate when I've been waiting for three busses and someone in a scooter shows up and boards right away. They aren't entitled to immediate boarding under ANY reading of the ADA. PLUS let's not forget, that many people in the scooters aren't disabled, and that the ADA only applies to people with strictly defined disabilities.

So is there a way to change this? I am really thinking of getting a rental car because I would really hate this to happen to me when waiting. And no, I don't mind if it's someone who really does have issues, but it's like the old court ruling about ography, I know it when I see it, and for the most part we know the abusers of the scooters when we see it.
Past things I have seen....teenagers joy riding around on them for the day just for kicks, a large man in a broken down one get off and pick it up off the ground!

 

[graphite1326]

wow i spoke to soon, this might not make it through the day!

Should we also add in that they were using old refilable mugs from a different resort?

lol

 

[graphite1326]

Just got back from an awesome week at WDW. Stayed at Pop Century and was really impressed by everything...except one. I liked the transportation system (the logistics of it all are mindblowing), but why does someone with a scooter take precedence over everyone else waiting in line for the bus to the park. I'm all for people who really need assistance getting on first, but then the whole group with them gets on as well (in one case there was the person on the scooter + 10 friends/relatives), meaning that people who have been waiting in line for 5-10 minutes now have to wait another 5-10 minutes (at least). I remember one night (around 9:00) waiting with my wife and two kids (5 & 7) in line for a bus when a scooter pulled up. The lady on the scooter started going on about how it was good that they get on the bus first since she was "spent" from a day in the park. Meanwhile, all of us had been walking for about 10 hours. Again, I don't want to come across as cold-hearted. I know some people really do need assistance and should get on first, but I also think some people may be taking advantage of the system. :shrug:

OK I gotta bring this up. How about the strollers?