Safety Raid at DLR. Could it happen here?

misterID

Well-Known Member
It's true that Florida government doesn't want to anger the mouse too much, since Mickey is their bread and butter. However, that doesn't mean they look the other way when it comes to safety. In fact, if an inspector found something and wrote Disney up, they most certainly wouldn't be fired. Imagine if his "ignoring" of a violation resulted in a serious injury or death.

The monorail accident is a good example of how OSHA and DOT didn't hold back when it came to citing every possible deficiency they could. It's just a shame they hadn't done so before the tragedy happened.

That's not really what I meant. Of course they have to follow the rules and won't be allowed to skirt them, but there's no way they would be treated like Disneyland is. If they were, there's no doubt there would be repercussions. They just have too many allies in too powerful positions. Again, they're not going to be allowed to get away with violations, that's not what I'm saying.
 

Tom

Beta Return
That's not really what I meant. Of course they have to follow the rules and won't be allowed to skirt them, but there's no way they would be treated like Disneyland is. If they were, there's no doubt there would be repercussions. They just have too many allies in too powerful positions. Again, they're not going to be allowed to get away with violations, that's not what I'm saying.

Gotcha. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

DLR has the disadvantage of being in the state of California, which is broker than broke. I'm sure OSHA is on a rampage there, since they can generate some of the easiest revenue for a state.
 

Tom

Beta Return
Sorry, but that's not true to wit:

"Florida has some of the toughest rules in the country when it comes to the inspection and monitoring of carnivals and small amusement parks, experts say. But a loophole in state law exempts Florida's theme parks from those rules, which include government inspections.

After a series of tragic theme-park accidents across the country in the late 1990s, Disney World, Universal and SeaWorld agreed to let state inspectors visit their properties in October 1999. Officials with the Fair Rides Inspection Bureau said those site visits gave them "a reasonable degree of confidence" in the parks' rides.

Disney, Universal and SeaWorld later entered into a "memorandum of understanding" with the rides-inspection bureau to begin voluntarily reporting accidents that result in serious injury. The agreement defines a serious injury as one requiring "immediate admission and hospitalization in excess of 24 hours for purposes other than medical observation."

http://www.birket.com/articles/135

Thank you for the article and excerpt. That is indeed interesting, and enlightening.

However, I believe (although I'm not an expert on Florida law or government), these are two separate things.

In Indiana, the Department of Homeland Security is the Department (black hole) that now includes Fire & Building Safety. That division does carnival and fair inspections. I assume they do theme park inspections here too. Then there's OSHA (IOSHA here), which inspects workplaces.

People like to throw around OSHA for anything that involves the safety of people, which is not at all the case. OSHA stands for Occupational Safety and Health Act/Administration - with the key word being "occupational."

OSHA is in place to protect employees, not the general public. Fire and Building Safety officials protect the public through the legislation of Building Codes and Life Safety Codes. OSHA protects employees from hazards in the workplace via 29 CFR 2910 (General Industry) and 29 CFR 2926 (Construction).

If a roller coaster flies off a track, OSHA will be there with the sole responsibility of determining if employees were ever in danger. Other governmental agencies are there to investigate on behalf of the public. In the case of the monorail accident, that was the DOT. I don't know, specifically, which entity in Florida is actually responsible for rides and attractions.

If I'm following everything correctly, and I think I am, this thread and the citations given to DLR are specifically regarding employees of Disney, and their Contractors, being exposed to workplace hazards. It has nothing to do with the rides themselves, or guest safety. Guests are not in any danger in this current scenario - only employees.

And again, unless there's some loophole that says OSHA can't inspect Disney's workplace at their discretion (and I'd be extremely surprised if that were the case, because that would be a serious loophole that should be changed), this can most certainly happen at WDW. And again, if OSHA inspections aren't happening at WDW, they should be, because given what we know about all other maintenance shortfalls, it's almost assured that there are other serious violations that put employees at risk.
 

Tom

Beta Return
"Legoland rides do not have to be inspected by state safety workers.

The amusement part qualifies for a state exemption from inspection and permitting requirements because it will have 1,000 employees. The exemption was written into Florida law for Walt Disney World and other large theme parks."

http://www.theledger.com/article/20110928/NEWS/110929296

Again, ride safety and employee safety are mutually exclusive. The citations in DLR are based on employee safety and have absolutely nothing to do with the rides themselves.

As far as DOSH is concerned, Space Mountain is "just a building where Disney employees work."
 

misterID

Well-Known Member
Gotcha. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

DLR has the disadvantage of being in the state of California, which is broker than broke. I'm sure OSHA is on a rampage there, since they can generate some of the easiest revenue for a state.

My fault for not making it clear originally. They're definitely not above the law. But yeah, you're right. WDW has a status in FL that DLR just doesn't have.
 

Clever Name

Well-Known Member
And again, if OSHA inspections aren't happening at WDW, they should be, because given what we know about all other maintenance shortfalls, it's almost assured that there are other serious violations that put employees at risk.

WDW self reports to OSHA. I doubt that OSHA does any inspections at WDW except in response to specific incidents resulting in serious injury or death to employees.
 
E

Engenie

I must say I do think part of blame falls on the contractor... I do not know the full story, but in various times I have personal experience where contractors don't do what you want or even follow any legal safety precautions. Since it does seem like Disney failed to fix these known issues with fall arrest and documentation; why did the 'sub keep working? If the correct paperwork and safety was not provided, why did the sub even walk out onto the roof? My guess is in this climate everyone is so competitive for work they turned a blind eye, did the work and to not cause any problems so they would get more contracts... Unfortunately disney is the final owner and employer so the liability is on them. Sometimes people with just common sense are worth their weight in gold... on both sides.
 

dhall

Well-Known Member
Gotcha. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

DLR has the disadvantage of being in the state of California, which is broker than broke. I'm sure OSHA is on a rampage there, since they can generate some of the easiest revenue for a state.

That's just silly. The state's financial needs run into the billions of dollars: a few hundred thou in fines don't amount to anything relative to the size of the budget problems. I really don't expect DOSH is only looking for easy revenue.
 

Uncle Lupe

Well-Known Member
First.. I hope the worker is going to be alright.

So what anchor points did they use for years to do this maintenance?? It says they did not provide approved anchor points (maybe by today's standards) but the worker had to use something. I would think that they used a main and a backup so something has to be up there. I would like to know what is considered a serious injury.

If it was a situation that was just obviously unsafe to that worker then he/she should refuse to do the job and report to the proper agency.

What I see playing out is the worker was hurt preforming his job as always. After the worker is recovered and off workers comp if he was found to be doing the job unsafe he will get canned. If there are no anchor points he should know if something is safe and legal to use as an anchor point. Now the ex worker turns around and sues both the contractor and Disney for having him to do the job in what they knew were unsafe conditions. Settled out of court for an undisclosed sum.

I just see the worker getting a bad deal in this situation.
 

Uncle Lupe

Well-Known Member
I apologize for my assumption, but in my defense you didn't make it clear what you were laughing at. Frankly the discussion in this thread was anything but laughable from my point of view. But I am truly sorry for assuming that you were laughing at the report.

No biggie, I can see how my post could be misinterpreted. I do my best to put my inner thoughts out but sometimes I fail. I'm human, not Chuck Norris.
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
Reedy Creek isn't concerned with the operational maintenance of broken effects. As long as the ride is able to function without someone being injured, then the attractions are allowed to be in operation. Reedy Creek is not concerned with show quality. However, they can shut a ride down for not having proper emergency lighting, blocked exits, maximum capacity, etc.

How about when rock work or other heavy objects might fall on employees or guests? Would Reedy Creek shut down an attraction then???...because they didn't. And, I'm sorry, if there's risk enough for Disney to put up net or canopy barriers (that really offer very little protection) why have they not been scrutinized closer? Lets face it, if Disney wasn't there what would Reedy Creek be? Answer: non-existent.

I have a hard time believing it took 6 or 7 years for DOSH to decide it was time to slap DL on the hand for not making corrections. Where have they been all these years??? Smells a little fishy to me.
 

Skooterkid

Well-Known Member
I forget which agency called them on it, but there was a beautifully designed part of the ride where the car comes outside briefly.
tumblr_m4nm4ac7yj1rwwdnco1_500.jpg

AliceInWonderland3-23-60.jpg

_MG_9838AliceRide-L.jpg


9-59_Caterpillar2.jpg


It had been that way for decades without any incident. They forced them to put safety railings.
Luckily, I was able to ride it about 2 months prior to the "modification"
The last time I was there, it looked like this.
6122463897_f5eeab10eb.jpg

ITP-080312-IMG_0554.jpg

It was so awesome before. Now it is uninspired and boring.
The ride is still worth going on, but it used to be so cool to ride outside above everybody in the open.
Now, it seems like a kiddy ride. I know that sounds funny, but it does!

Wow, that looks amazing. I've only ever experienced the new version of the ride, and I always thought it was pretty cool, but it must have been even better before the 'improvements'.
 

danv3

Well-Known Member
According to the Disney Blog (not the official parks blog) DOSH didn't close anything (which makes sense, since their focus is primarily worker safety) but rather Disney did after getting the citation for the November incident.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
First the department involved is state level OSHA not federal OSHA.

Second, the reason for the inspection can be either as a result of a significant injury/incident and/or from a employee complaint.

Third, while the inspector is onsite, he can include any other violation he may witness while investigating the original issue. So if OSHA comes in regarding a missing toe kick, he can also cite for missing paperwork on extinguisher inspections, etc. Thus it is important that there is a procedure to meet and escort the inspector directly to and from the area in question. If the inspector is allowed to meander all over the park, he can cite anything and everything he encounters.

Fourth, OSHA operates under the idea that there is always something wrong and thus a visit must result some citation.

Even though the original citation is for $240,000, the negotiated fine that will actually be paid will most likely be less than $10,000
 

RonAnnArbor

Well-Known Member
OMG OMG...LOL I just went back to reread the thread and in my post "safety belts" was autocorrected to "seat belts"...ARGH, I hate the iPad autocorrect...
 

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