Rumors. Musings. Casual.

[MisterPenguin]

Depending how bad attendance takes a hit after EU opens, they might be more cautious in general about raising prices and such into the future. It would be curious if someone could find WDWs pricing before and after the Wizarding World first opened.

Disney won't have to worry. Once EU opens, WDW will be forced to close with no one attending.

 

[LittleBuford]

These comparisons make little sense to me as someone for whom a Disney holiday is very much its own thing. That a trip to another destination may cost less is as irrelevant to me as being told that pasta is cheaper than couscous if couscous is what I’m specifically after.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Depending how bad attendance takes a hit after EU opens, they might be more cautious in general about raising prices and such into the future. It would be curious if someone could find WDWs pricing before and after the Wizarding World first opened.

You overestimate the impact Universal has on Disney. If it was as great as you think it is, Disney would've broken ground on actual net positive expansions about 3 years ago. Disney doesn't care about Epic.

 

[Jrb1979]

You overestimate the impact Universal has on Disney. If it was as great as you think it is, Disney would've broken ground on actual net positive expansions about 3 years ago. Disney doesn't care about Epic.

Til now they haven't had to. In the next 5-6 years I doubt that will change. When they should start worrying is 10-20 years from now. Young kids today aren't attached to the Disney IP like they have in the past. That could be a problem in the future.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Til now they haven't had to. In the next 5-6 years I doubt that will change. When they should start worrying is 10-20 years from now. Young kids today aren't attached to the Disney IP like they have in the past. That could be a problem in the future.

I think until Universal chooses to actually build attractions geared toward young children (w/o height requirements) nothing is ever going to really really move the needle. I also don’t fully agree with your sentiment

 

[seabreezept813]

At current prices, it would take almost 20 years to break even.

Ya we should be the target dvc customers. Young kids, have been going every year. It’s just not a good value.

 

[Jrb1979]

I think until Universal chooses to actually build attractions geared toward young children (w/o height requirements) nothing is ever going to really really move the needle. I also don’t fully agree with your sentiment

Ride wise I agree I don't see them going after that market. IMO makes no sense to do it.

As far as IP, my kid is 4 and has no interest in Disney IP. Same goes for her school mates. They are all into Mario, Peppa Pig, Blippi.

 

[LSLS]

These comparisons make little sense to me as someone for whom a Disney holiday is very much its own thing. That a trip to another destination may cost less is as irrelevant to me as being told that pasta is cheaper than couscous if couscous is what I’m specifically after.

There are many people who don't view it black and white like that. If I want couscous, but the restaurant takes 2 hours to get it to me and it comes out cold and crunchy, I'm taking the pasta that's cooked well and quickly, even if I wanted the couscous. And yes, I realize everyone absolutely does not think that WDW is the couscous I described, but I think there is a real possibility we have hit a tipping point where a significant portion of the potential customer base does feel that way.

 

[LittleBuford]

There are many people who don't view it black and white like that. If I want couscous, but the restaurant takes 2 hours to get it to me and it comes out cold and crunchy, I'm taking the pasta that's cooked well and quickly, even if I wanted the couscous. And yes, I realize everyone absolutely does not think that WDW is the couscous I described, but I think there is a real possibility we have hit a tipping point where a significant portion of the potential customer base does feel that way.

I realise the comparisons are meaningful to many here, and I’m not questioning their validity to the people posting them. It just isn’t a framing that makes sense to me personally. Even a Universal holiday isn’t an alternative that would scratch the Disney itch in my view.

 

[TheIceBaron]

You overestimate the impact Universal has on Disney. If it was as great as you think it is, Disney would've broken ground on actual net positive expansions about 3 years ago. Disney doesn't care about Epic.

I was merely pointing out that it would be interesting to know to what extent WDW changed price increases based on Wizarding Worlds original opening. I don’t know this information. But if it did affect their rate of price increases then presumably EU would have a similar tug affect on the increase? In no way was I joining the chorus of people saying EU will destroy WDW. Just merely stating it could affect future price increases hopefully.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

For the same amount of money you can spend 6 days at the actual Riviera.​

And... what are you going to do there for six days that rivals six days at WDW? Yes, there are people who'll be at the beach each day and they'll love it. But if you want all-day entertainment for six days... is the Riviera really your destination?

No, it's not a theme park equal- but the real Riviera has enough to fill six days. We've been there.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

And yes, I realize everyone absolutely does not think that WDW is the couscous I described, but I think there is a real possibility we have hit a tipping point where a significant portion of the potential customer base does feel that way.

I think most think it’s still good - just a little more pricey.

Even a Universal holiday isn’t an alternative that would scratch the Disney itch in my view

Same. Universal is a fun theme park to visit with some really cool attractions - I don’t need to plan another visit anytime soon.

No, it's not a theme park equal- but the real Riviera has enough to fill six days. We've been there.

i mean, so does key west for some people. You’re gonna pay either way, if you prefer Riviera by all means. Sometimes I choose Durango Colorado over Disney cause I love the trains. Or even the Henry ford museum.

 

[JD80]

I was merely pointing out that it would be interesting to know to what extent WDW changed price increases based on Wizarding Worlds original opening. I don’t know this information. But if it did affect their rate of price increases then presumably EU would have a similar tug affect on the increase? In no way was I joining the chorus of people saying EU will destroy WDW. Just merely stating it could affect future price increases hopefully.

They didnt change prices beyond normal price increases they did at the time.

 

[JD80]

Flights to the Riviera are like $1k. My family is out 5k before we get off the plane.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Flights to the Riviera are like $1k. My family is out 5k before we get off the plane.

Ah but you are forgetting magical express is no longer free so now the Riviera is cheaper!

 

[doctornick]

Flights to the Riviera are like $1k. My family is out 5k before we get off the plane.

I feel like transportation costs are always very variable when talking about these things. I sure can’t find the “cheap” flights to international places that others seem to be able too. Of course, I’m flying with my whole family and traveling over weekends mostly and doing it during school time off so it’s obviously going to be different than a retired couple traveling midweek in October.

I guess my point is that I think circumstances and flexibility dictate how affordable alternatives can be.

 

[BrianLo]

but the cost comparisons don’t include any attractions or tours. Cruise ships can definitely be a great value but again, you typically pay more for various tours that you do on those vacations as well.

Having done plenty of museums and tours in many European, I'm certain that the added expenses would still make it cheaper than WDW.

I’m sure you can make the math work either way depending on what you add or take away.

Actually this is quite measurable and the cruise operators have been addressing it on the last few conference calls. Jason Liberty (Royal) and Weinstein (CCL) are calling it a value gap. Pre-pandemic the value on cruises were about a 15-20% discount on an equivalent land based experience or all inclusive. Post-pandemic it had swelled to almost 25-50% depending on the executive in question (Jason Liberty said 40-45% for Royal). Obviously they consider this a bad thing and are actively trying to increase prices to close it.

All of which is to say there is (or at least was) a major financial discount to booking a cruise over a land vacation. DCL may be a bit of an exception as they are premium priced and likely have a much narrower discount to a pseudo-equivalent WDW experience. The Disney tax as it were. NCL's CEO feels there were too many other operators racing to the bottom or over-discounting their ships to fill them. Fuel is after all something a land resort doesn't need to contend with.

WDW is of course expensive, but I think the most pertinent thing to explore is that what Universal is likely to do with their new found opportunity isn't going to be as magnanimous as people think it will be. They are going to close the value gap with WDW and they already frankly have ticketing wise over the last 15 year. The hotel value gap will also likely close after a half decade of Epic, acknowledging there's always going to be some minor bump to a bubbled WDW resort experience versus a hotel abutting a highway.

To bring things back around, Jason Liberty really feels Royal Caribbean is positioned to take business from the Family Orlando market. Epic Universe isn't the only thing knocking at the door.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

All of which is to say there is (or at least was) a major financial discount to booking a cruise over a land vacation. DCL may be a bit of an exception as they are premium priced and likely have a much narrower discount to a pseudo-equivalent WDW experience. The Disney tax as it were.

Again… there are many variables. A cruise can be a great deal - but you can also add on lots of excursions and activities and pretty soon it’s very pricey. Just like Disney Parks.

 

[BrianLo]

Again… there are many variables. A cruise can be a great deal - but you can also add on lots of excursions and activities and pretty soon it’s very pricey. Just like Disney Parks.

Well ya, you can also turn around and stay in a grand villa at Disney for cash and make Disney more expensive too. Or take a Cunard cruise. Both can be more expensive. But the average of cruises are significantly lower than land based experiences. This is pretty agreed upon by the corporate financiers.

The more apples to apples comparisons they are using are resorts or land based tours generally. It's hard to compare Disney as a product. Other than Disney also offers a cruise product and is clearly charging a generous "brand premium" compared to their competitors there too.

 

[MisterPenguin]

but the real Riviera has enough to fill six days.

A point that I very specifically made. So, I'm glad you agree with my post 100%.