• Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.You can use your Twitter or Facebook account to sign up, or register directly.

(RUMOR) Rivers Of Light to end in 2020 replaced with new show featuring Disney characters

peter11435

Well-Known Member
HEA is not a fireworks show. It is a show with fireworks.

Variety is the spice of life. In the enthusiasm with which projection mapping has been embraced for nighttime shows, WDW forgot that fireworks shows have an atmosphere all of their own.

Incidentally, originality is why I appreciate both of DAK's night shows, despite their shortcomings, perhaps even dullness.
HEA is just as much a fireworks show as Wishes was. Both used fireworks set to music to tell a 'story' and both used other effects to round out the presentation. Those other effects have just been greatly modernized in the case of HEA just as they had been with Wishes after FiTS.
 

Magic Feather

Well-Known Member
Advertisement
So... Unpopular Opinion Incoming:
Even with Pocahontas gone for something else, I would rather watch Rivers of Light than Fantasmic:DHS Edition. I had the (dis?) pleasure of watching it tonight, in what is one of the most poorly laid out Ampitheatres made, and more people walked out mid-show (up to the Dragon Head on a Stick) than I had seen walk out on RoL. Most screens were about 50/50 between the quality of the Lotus and Big RoL mist screens, and the pacing is just off. Not saying this makes RoL amazing, it still needs serious improvements, but I am a lot more sympathetic with the original placement of TRON.
 

trainplane3

Well-Known Member
So... Unpopular Opinion Incoming:
Even with Pocahontas gone for something else, I would rather watch Rivers of Light than Fantasmic:DHS Edition. I had the (dis?) pleasure of watching it tonight, in what is one of the most poorly laid out Ampitheatres made, and more people walked out mid-show (up to the Dragon Head on a Stick) than I had seen walk out on RoL. Most screens were about 50/50 between the quality of the Lotus and Big RoL mist screens, and the pacing is just off. Not saying this makes RoL amazing, it still needs serious improvements, but I am a lot more sympathetic with the original placement of TRON.
I haven't seen RoL in person yet and talk down on the show since it does lack that oomph (something else, doesn't need fireworks, music is great), I'll agree with you there. I can excuse RoL since it is a brand new show that they are trying to tweak. Fantasmic has been here for nearly 20 years and it feels like it. RoE has been around nearly as long and Wishes was nearly 15, they both never let me down. I saw Fantasmic twice, once around 2003-ish and once in 2016. Even "little me" was bored by the show mainly because it felt like I was watching "Disneys greatest hits" on water screens (I waited an hour in line for this?!). I stayed in 2003 because I wasn't one to complain and give up, I stayed in 2016 because of another family with us. If someone else would've said "lets go", I would've ran out of there.

They have an entire amphitheater dedicated to it while DL "only" has a piece of RoA. There's no excuse why it can't be better. Okay, money excuses...

Going to be very blunt for a second: the DHS dragon is pure crap.
 

Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
Another reminder of why being dead focused on little kids leads to terrible decisions: Kids being bored during test screenings almost lead to The Little Mermaid losing "Part of Your World". Howard Ashman fought Katzenberg hard in order to keep that number in the movie and it paid off.
Bear in mind, Katzenberg is also the lunatic who thought the ending should be more like Die Hard.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Do you ever say anything positive? :arghh:
About Rivers of Light? I've commended the music, but the show simply isn't good.
About other things, absolutely. I'm a big defender of Pandora, most of New Fantasyland and pretty much all of the announced changes to the parks except Epcot - I'm taking a pessimistic wait and see approach there.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Well, that I can see.

Fantasmic! has a huge buzz-kill in the middle in the form of "And now... colonialists for no reason whatsoever!"

The DHS hub shows are crippled by:
  • the poor surface of the Chinese theater (too small, low, and dark),
  • the palm trees in the way,
  • the stage in the way (though, that should hopefully be fixed soon),
  • the trees at the back of the hub and buildings (esp. Bill & Min) blocking the view from further away,
  • the generally smaller venue for people to pack themselves in,
  • no seating
  • reduced fireworks from the original SW show, and then reduced again due to brush fires

I like RoL for what it is, but I also agree it could be a whole lot better with little tweaks
  • have the shaman boats crisscross immediately in front of the audience so that they can be actually seen
  • use the projectors in the lotus more often (a great effect that makes up for the background screen faltering)
And with a major one:
  • Build ruins into the lake that hide elevated water sprays that fill in the gaps and aren't ruined by a small breeze.

I don't think I'd ever voluntarily see RoL without a FP or dining package to guarantee a seat... nor if there weren't seats at all. But guarantee me a seat, and I'll happily enjoy the glow of RoL.
I disagree on DHS. The viewing area is small (Although it's about to get a little bigger), but Star Wars: Galactic Spectacular is an excellent show.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Later. The progression was "Mini-Lanterns arriving before showtime>Shamans>Animals>Lotuses".

The purpose of the 100 mini-lanterns was to provide additional color and kinetics for the show and help carry the "Animal Spirit Parade" segment as the Lotuses were meant to come in as each of the Animal Spirits left their barges. The projections for the scene transition still show the animal spirits "trading places" with a lotus as each one appears. But because those mini-lanterns kept straining the computer guidance systems that run the show, they had to be dropped and the Lotuses had to pick up the slack and the show lost three minutes of runtime as a result of the switch affecting the pacing of said "Animal Spirit Parade" segment and needing to get the Shamans out on the water faster after cutting their procession through the theater.
When did they blow up Mickey?
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Slight tangent, but I think Happily Ever After is a huge improvement over Wishes. While I'm one of the biggest critics of random-character-sequence shows, at least there was an iota of thought put into the arrangement of scenes here, unlike any other castle show I've seen. And the beginning and end are so well put together. And the message is stronger. There's a reason it's so highly rated. Why would they even be thinking about a replacement already? Spend the money on a night parade.

I'd be more annoyed to see that go than Rivers of Light, and I love Rivers of Light in its own regard.
I also loved Happily Ever After, but heard a legit complaint about it. Wishes was solid in and out of the park. Much of Happily Ever After is missed when watching outside the park.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
HEA is not a fireworks show. It is a show with fireworks.

Variety is the spice of life. In the enthusiasm with which projection mapping has been embraced for nighttime shows, WDW forgot that fireworks shows have an atmosphere all of their own.

Incidentally, originality is why I appreciate both of DAK's night shows, despite their shortcomings, perhaps even dullness.
No, it's a fireworks show with projections. Sorry you dislike it. The pyro is far better than anything they've done. It's a fireworks show to me. It just happens to have projections on the castle. But I guess if you don't like it you can skew it to try and make it seem bad.
 
Last edited:

Kman101

Well-Known Member
About Rivers of Light? I've commended the music, but the show simply isn't good.
About other things, absolutely. I'm a big defender of Pandora, most of New Fantasyland and pretty much all of the announced changes to the parks except Epcot - I'm taking a pessimistic wait and see approach there.
Many of us think it is good, though. To each their own. Doesn't mean you have to tell people to not "defend" it because you don't like it. It's not bad. It needs work though. It isn't perfect but I like the bones of what's there. Shame more don't as it's not infused with IP. And no, not saying if you dislike it it means you want IP shoved in but that's exactly what will happen.

And @Magic Feather , HEA isn't considered a "real" replacement for Wishes? I'd say it more than qualifies. It's very well done. I don't know what more they can do to top it in the future besides new music and switching out scenes. I feel like any new show would probably pale if there's any cut down in time or fireworks.
 

Pixieish

Well-Known Member
Clap Emoji EVERYTHING Clap Emoji DOES Clap Emoji NOT Clap Emoji HAVE Clap Emoji TO Clap Emoji APPEAL Clap Emoji TO Clap Emoji TODDLERS Clap Emoji!!!
AMEN. Something the current leadership seems to forget. My husband and I honeymooned at WDW, and it was fantastic. No need to alienate adults just to please the kiddos - the kiddos will like pretty much anything they can enjoy with their parents.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
I disagree on DHS. The viewing area is small (Although it's about to get a little bigger), but Star Wars: Galactic Spectacular is an excellent show.
I really liked SW: GS. I thought it was well put together. A few more fireworks would have been nice but I really enjoyed it and it seemed the guests around me did too. Lots of positive reactions. I guess if you don't like SW it won't really appeal to you but for what it is (and I'm a fan of SW, not hardcore, but a strong fan) it's a good show. I'd stop to see it again.
 

Pixieish

Well-Known Member
Here's the thing - Disney can be AMAZING regardless of how old you are when you go. At fifteen on my first trip, I was awestruck. Same for when I was 28 and on my honeymoon. Then seeing it again through the eyes of my sons in my 30s and now 40s - WOW! What Disney and lots of parents fail to realize is that your kids will enjoy whatever you do with them as long as you understand their limits and make it fun and interesting for them!

We first took our sons at 2 1/2 and 7 1/2 and immediately wished we'd gone sooner because our youngest loved it so much and we felt like our oldest missed out because we waited so long. Subsequent trips for them were at 4 1/2 and 9 1/2, and 5 and 10. Our boys are both open-to-close kids, and in three trips, we've only seen ONE melt-down at Disney (on our 2nd trip we had to leave MK within an hour to catch our flight home and I was trying to avoid seeing Dumbo because it's our youngest's favorite, so I took him on Speedway. BAM! Dumbo right there on one of the turns. *facepalm*) Seriously...they are better behaved and happier at Disney than they are anywhere else, and my husband is more likely to have a melt-down at Disney than my kids are simply because Grumpy is the equivalent of his spirit animal - and that's saying a lot when you consider that both my boys are on the autism spectrum. I consider us extraordinarily lucky in that they thrive on the overstimulation of the parks and we plan our sit-down meals and take people-watching breaks to allow for down/relax time. Yes, our little guy napped in his stroller, but I liked it that way even when we were at home - it made sure I was never tethered to the house for his naps.

Since we live in New England, a trip for us (and getting the most out of it) requires getting up at 2 am to park at a bus station, taking the bus to the airport, flying down, then either catching the ME or renting a car. And guess what...our boys LOVE IT ALL. They love it to the point that we even once told them we had to fly to Florida for a funeral (we were really going to Disney) and they were still excited to be going on an airplane and everything the travel entailed. I was approached after one of our flights by a woman who said "I had NO IDEA you had two kids with you!"

I'm much older than most of my boys' friend's moms - I'm 45 and my boys are 11 and 6 now. The majority of young parents with young kids can't afford all the extras because of lower paying jobs (be honest - most young people just don't have the job/career experience to pull in big bucks, plus there's college loans to consider) baby expenses (either mom works and has to pay ridiculous prices for daycare, or they have a single income, diapers, possibly formula, etc, etc), they do Disney on the cheap. The better target for per guest park spending would be semi-older parents with pre-teen kids who also happen to have younger little ones. Just look at the tab for our 2nd family trip...when the boys were 4 1/2 and 9 1/2...holy moly we spent a ton of money on just crap, lol.

My point is that both Disney and lots and lots of parents are missing out on a well-rounded experience for everyone. Too many parents need their kids to be entertained every second of the day (overschedulers, anyone?), rather than letting them explore the world around them and acting as facilitators and helping them to appreciate the little things - like the ducks in DHS that my boys adore. I've asked if they have a favorite park - they weren't able to choose one because there are things they love in each one.

For example, I am well aware that EPCOT has a lot of "down-time" in relation to the other parks (I was pretty thrilled when Disney introduced Agent P's Adventure), so we bring pirate coins and glow bracelets for the boys to give away to other kids, and they always look forward to visiting EPCOT. Lots of waiting time? We let each boy pick out a cheap little something right when we check-in at the resort store (usually $7 or less and very often a train or car of some sort) that they can bring to the parks every day to play with that isn't obtrusive to other guests. They have entertained themselves every trip when we need to sit and just re-center ourselves or whatever. We also all love playing "I Spy" while we wait for things or when we're just strolling around the resorts and parks. I know my youngest doesn't enjoy indoor stage shows yet, so we're either avoiding them or we can always split up if one of us has their heart set on seeing one.

No - the parks don't need to be "toddlerfied" at all, and if you play your cards right and plan well for your children's personalities and likes/dislikes, every park can be enjoyed equally by all ages. The important thing is to make your plan center around your kids and their tolerances, and facilitate to help them see the fun in the non-kid-centric stuff...and most of all - BE FLEXIBLE. (We even potty trained our youngest at Disney World!)

Sorry for being so all over the place, lol.
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
I really liked SW: GS. I thought it was well put together. A few more fireworks would have been nice but I really enjoyed it and it seemed the guests around me did too. Lots of positive reactions. I guess if you don't like SW it won't really appeal to you but for what it is (and I'm a fan of SW, not hardcore, but a strong fan) it's a good show. I'd stop to see it again.
Expect SWAGS to undergo some changes for the better
 

egg

Well-Known Member
I also loved Happily Ever After, but heard a legit complaint about it. Wishes was solid in and out of the park. Much of Happily Ever After is missed when watching outside the park.
HEA is significantly longer and has more fireworks, so is it really a worse show than Wishes from outside of the park? I haven't tested it out, but I don't see how it could be. If that guy were to watch both shows from the Grand Floridian, I'd wager he'd still like HEA better.

Your last sentence is absolutely true. But given the above, I'd actually say that's a testament to how much of an improvement it is. There is more to miss simply because there is more to the show. It's more than a "real replacement," it's, in part, an addition.
 
Last edited:

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Many of us think it is good, though. To each their own. Doesn't mean you have to tell people to not "defend" it because you don't like it. It's not bad. It needs work though. It isn't perfect but I like the bones of what's there. Shame more don't as it's not infused with IP. And no, not saying if you dislike it it means you want IP shoved in but that's exactly what will happen.

And @Magic Feather , HEA isn't considered a "real" replacement for Wishes? I'd say it more than qualifies. It's very well done. I don't know what more they can do to top it in the future besides new music and switching out scenes. I feel like any new show would probably pale if there's any cut down in time or fireworks.
By no means am I advocating for IP in Rivers of Light. If that makes it a better show, so be it, but I'm just asking for a better show. The quality isn't there for a Disney nighttime show, IMO.
 
Top Bottom