Rumor: Details on Disney's Hollywood Adventure

[Kman101]

Most have been waiting since at least '09 for a makeover for this park. I understand holding things close to the vest. But finalize plans and announce them. Stop cutting them halfway through.

How does it make any sense for them to close half of the park and then announce nothing but a name change? Why is that logic being defended just because they're throwing down a LOT of money?

I know the end result *could* be amazing and it will probably be worth the wait. I don't want another Avatar situation, but they should have been on this path years ago. It's time for them to get going. If construction (or demo) starts this fall, I'll shut up about it because it means they're getting going but are we going to have to wait until 2017 for an announcement worth a dang?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Most have been waiting since at least '09 for a makeover for this park. I understand holding things close to the vest. But finalize plans and announce them. Stop cutting them halfway through.

How does it make any sense for them to close half of the park and then announce nothing but a name change? Why is that logic being defended just because they're throwing down a LOT of money?

I know the end result *could* be amazing and it will probably be worth the wait. I don't want another Avatar situation, but they should have been on this path years ago. It's time for them to get going. If construction (or demo) starts this fall, I'll shut up about it because it means they're getting going but are we going to have to wait until 2017 for an announcement worth a dang?

You sound like you'd be a much happier person if you didn't follow Internet rumors. The first whisperings of rumors that get leaked to an insider aren't part of the "announcement to completion" time line that you object to. NOTHING for DHS has been announced yet.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I hate to be "that guy", but this is clearly Bob Iger's fault. Notice how the process of building things at the pace of a turtle began when he became the CEO.

Capital expenditures have been at record levels. All you (or most posters here) care about are rides and only rides at Walt Disney World. It's unbelievably narrow-minded to ignore DCA, NGE, New Fantasyland, the Dream, the Fantasy, Disney Springs, and everything international and claim that Disney isn't investing in the parks and resorts segment. It's called a priority list. DHS is now at the top of that list.

 

[danlb_2000]

Capital expenditures have been at record levels. All you (or most posters here) care about are rides and only rides at Walt Disney World. It's unbelievably narrow-minded to ignore DCA, NGE, New Fantasyland, the Dream, the Fantasy, Disney Springs, and everything international and claim that Disney isn't investing in the parks and resorts segment. It's called a priority list. DHS is now at the top of that list.

@ParentsOf4, can you confirm this statement?

 

[Mike C]

Capital expenditures have been at record levels. All you (or most posters here) care about are rides and only rides at Walt Disney World. It's unbelievably narrow-minded to ignore DCA, NGE, New Fantasyland, the Dream, the Fantasy, Disney Springs, and everything international and claim that Disney isn't investing in the parks and resorts segment. It's called a priority list. DHS is now at the top of that list.

What does that have to do with how slowly things are constructed at Walt Disney World? (Again pleasure island closed in 2008) Or the fact they've closed more than they have built inside the parks? Trying to bring in things outside of Florida just makes it worse, since it shows how badly the Disney flagship resort has been mismanaged for the past 15 years they basically have to shutdown half an entire park to do something they dragged out way too long on (and will still managed to even drag that out too long -- and don't be fooled Accountaneering still trumps imagination in Florida)

You would not believe the disdain some in management have for "Disney Freaks" and I swear sometimes they do things just to see how far they can go, it's a running bet.

 

[s8film40]

Capital expenditures have been at record levels. All you (or most posters here) care about are rides and only rides at Walt Disney World. It's unbelievably narrow-minded to ignore DCA, NGE, New Fantasyland, the Dream, the Fantasy, Disney Springs, and everything international and claim that Disney isn't investing in the parks and resorts segment. It's called a priority list. DHS is now at the top of that list.

I guess there's a difference between being WDW fan and being a fan of corporate Disney. I'm not planning any trips to CA or internationally anytime soon, I don't like cruises, shopping and dining is nice but nothing to get too excited about, I view NGE as a negative to the experience and new Fantasyland was nice but really only a minor enhancement.

 

[Kman101]

You sound like you'd be a much happier person if you didn't follow Internet rumors. The first whisperings of rumors that get leaked to an insider aren't part of the "announcement to completion" time line that you object to. NOTHING for DHS has been announced yet.

Um. I know nothing's been announced yet. That was the point of my post. Do you even read the posts before you quote someone to lecture them?

 

[Sage of Time]

As it stands, nothing.

thank goodness!

 

[WDWFan_Boston]

I guess there's a difference between being WDW fan and being a fan of corporate Disney. I'm not planning any trips to CA or internationally anytime soon, I don't like cruises, shopping and dining is nice but nothing to get too excited about, I view NGE as a negative to the experience and new Fantasyland was nice but really only a minor enhancement.

So, it's only a plus for Disney to spend money on those things if you appreciate them?

 

[djkidkaz]

I think the problem with Muppets is that its in the center of where all this expansion is going. The three options I see are either demolish it, move it somewhere else or come up with a theme that makes some sense of why its there ( ie. the Muppets have come to visit the Pixar characters ).

 

[4disneylovers]

I will admit I didn't read all of this but my sadness comes in if we lose Figment. They broke it and just need to fix it not replace it.

 

[FigmentJedi]

I really hope Dagobah is an old idea or that it's just wrong. IMO Dagobah makes no sense as a first or main destination. There's nothing there significant enough compared to the alternatives. The Tatooine idea makes the most sense...the cantina is pretty much a must, there's the Hutts, the pod racing arena, the mos eisley spaceport and indigenous life like Jawas, Sand people, Bantas and dewbacks. I know they're rumored to be focusing on the new movies, but this is essential Star Wars to me. Star Tours is a perfect tie-in with the ME spaceport.

Dagobah is how you keep Echo Lake around and have a nice shady green area in a park that's mostly concrete. Plus it seems like a natural setting for a repurposed Jedi Training Academy.

 

[ParentsOf4]

@ParentsOf4, can you confirm this statement?

I'm a big believer in looking at percentages. Percentages put things into perspective. They adjust for inflation, take into account the size of an organization, and facilitate historical and industry comparisons. Disney spending $100M in 1971 is not the same as Disney spending $100M in 2015. Nor is Disney (with 10 theme parks, 4 cruise ships, and 2 water parks) spending $100M the same as Universal (with 3 domestic theme parks) spending $100M. "Disney dollars" have undergone tremendous inflation over the decades and today's Disney's capital expenditure (capex) gets spread pretty thin.

Through the first 6 months of fiscal year 2015, Disney's Parks & Resorts (P&R) capex is 21.6% of total P&R revenue. Historically, this is a pretty "middle of the road" number for Disney. Overwhelmingly, this money is being spent in Shanghai.

Disney's domestic P&R capex is at 7.9% of total P&R revenue for the first 2 quarters of the fiscal year, the 5th lowest since the opening of WDW at the beginning of the 1972 fiscal year. (All 4 lower years have occurred under CEO Bob Iger.)

My opinion is that, long term, Disney's P&R capex should be at roughly 17-to-18%. Disney's P&R segment is simply not expanding at the rate it once did. Conversely, amusement parks is a capital intensive industry with even lower tier companies routinely spending north of 10%. (Universal has been at over 25% for the last few years.) Thus, as a division, my opinion is that, at 21.6%, Disney is spending aggressively this year. Domestically, Disney's P&R capex budget is bare bones.

My opinion is that no one should complain that Disney isn't spending on P&R capex right now, although I understand if they want to criticize where it's being spent.

Corporately, it's clear that Disney has decided to wait for Shanghai capex to die down before opening the floodgates on WDW.

 

[s8film40]

So, it's only a plus for Disney to spend money on those things if you appreciate them?

Well it's only a plus for me if I appreciate them. If Disney is building something on the other side of the world it really has no bearing on my experience at WDW. I understand not a lot has been going on at WDW for the past 10 years, but to hold up all these examples that really should only get stockholders excited as reasons why WDW or rather the company isn't in bad shape really has no relevance in a discussion about WDW. We might as well bring up how much they're spending at the studio and ABC with that line of thinking.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Figment/inside out? Again, nobody has heard anything within the budgetary process.

I'm hoping Jim Hill's insistence that an Inside Out perma-replacement to Captain EO in the Magic Eye is all the Pixar that's coming into the pavilion is legit.

 

[matt9112]

Ypu sound sad. Have a cookie.

 

[ThemeParkJunkee]

Yay @ParentsOf4 has brought out some of my favorite stats. . . Capex as a percentage of revenue.

 

[Capsin4]

Dagobah is how you keep Echo Lake around and have a nice shady green area in a park that's mostly concrete. Plus it seems like a natural setting for a repurposed Jedi Training Academy.

Yeah, that's exactly why I wouldn't want it to be Dagobah. Spend an unprecedented amount of money on arguably the most beloved fictional universe ever created and you hamstring the implementation because there's an inconsequential lake that was originally placed where it is to form the ear of a giant Mickey Mouse. Echo lake cannot be the constraint on this project IMO

I'm not for it staying or going, but that lake can't drive this new land. I'm sure there are plenty of bodies of water in the universe outside the swamps of Dagobah. If they do go with Dagobah, I'd be inclined to think, the land will be a hodgepodge of attractions rather than a cohesive themed land...dagohbah swamp, tatooine cantina, Ossus Jedi Academy...might as well plop down a death star run attraction and be done with it. The franchise is so massive, hucnopefully they go for imerssive, self contained areas as much as possible in different parks.

I do agree on the need for shade...that can be figured out.

 

[mahnamahna101]

In other words, @AJO is full of it.

I wouldn't really say that... $500 million/yr for Universal's parks adjusts $1.25 B-$1.5 B/yr at the Disney parks, with their extra-bloated budgets. If Comcast spent $1 billion/yr on Universal Orlando, we'd be getting 5 new attractions, updates for existing ones and a hotel expansion/new hotel pretty much annually. He should have fact-checked how much they were planning to spend.

$3 billion at WDW gets you far less than $3 billion at Universal Orlando. Not to start another debate, but they're just bringing up how TDO spends far too much on 'expansions' with little substance ($500 million gets you 2 rides, a restaurant and a shut-down classic dark ride for a M&G, plus an extra spinner and less theming for the kiddie coaster)

Capital expenditures have been at record levels. All you (or most posters here) care about are rides and only rides at Walt Disney World. It's unbelievably narrow-minded to ignore DCA, NGE, New Fantasyland, the Dream, the Fantasy, Disney Springs, and everything international and claim that Disney isn't investing in the parks and resorts segment. It's called a priority list. DHS is now at the top of that list.

New Fantasyland, NGE and Disney Springs aren't WDW?

New Fantasyland is really just half-baked. And in a park that desperately needs capacity, there was some missed opportunities to increase it without causing substantial overcrowding.

1. B&TB having no people-eating ride/attraction (2,500-3,000/hr)
2. Peter Pan not getting even a slight increase in hourly capacity through new RVs (even 100-200/hr increase would have been helpful)
3. The tents not holding a people-eater (huge waste of space that most people ignore - a people-eating circus show starring Mickey and Friends would have been perfect for this - 3,000 to 5,000/hr)
4. Princess Fairytale Hall reducing hourly capacity from SWSA's old number (500-700/hr vs. 900-1,100/hr)

Only B&TB E would actually increase attendance. An actual SWSA replacement, Peter Pan getting overhauled and a new show where the tents are would be the kind of C-ticket people-suckers MK desperately needs.

MM+ isn't really a great investment TBH. It's not as bad as people make it out to be, but it's definitely not the best thing they could have spent $2-2.5 billion on. Should have just spent $1 billion on better Wi-Fi, and the other $1 billion or so on a Pixar Place expansion and some Future World enhancements (Soarin' 3rd theater/updated film, Test Track revamp, Energy revamp, Imagination overhaul, Innoventions/SSE updates). Then, the $3 billion+ we're getting now could be used for actual expansion to Epcot (something in WoL, something between Land/Neno), bigger enhancements to MK (Tomorrowland overhaul, new parade, updates for all headliners, etc), Star Wars Land and more DHS placemaking, and something beyond Pandora for AK (Fixing the Yeti)

Um. I know nothing's been announced yet. That was the point of my post. Do you even read the posts before you quote someone to lecture them?

I agree. There's no reason to be pumped about the DHS redo and what's coming to Epcot/MK until more details are released. Plans change all of the time, so we ought to be hesitant to avoid getting burned once again.

 

[trevorfs]

(This probably was said but I'm saying it anyways) Disney should wait for the Muppets show on ABC to see if Muppet Vision 3D can be built on or stay at DHS through the expansion. And I think they really shouldn't just pack the park with Pixar and Star Wars. The plan everyone is suggesting sounds like half the park will be Star Wars.