Rumor concerning Phil Holmes

[WDW1974]

The Nightmare overlay never had budget approved, nor didit ever come close to being done. It was briefly considered but ruled out by WDI and Operations.

We can go back and forth, but I know that it was approved by both Burbank and Glendale initially. Money was allocated. WDW ops, largely Phil (but backed by Erin) hated the idea. WDI turned around and sold the concept to OLC since their Mansion is about a 98% clone of MK's.

You simply cant close the WDW mansion for 4 months like you can at DL - it's totally out of the question for Orlando.

Please. I don't get this idea -- and it is a relatively new one -- that you can't close major attractions at WDW. I know it is a great excuse to allow them to fall apart, and to not plus them regularly.

But there's no logic to it. Not when WDW brands itself as FOUR PARKS: ONE WORLD.

I recall when there was only the MK. They'd annually close most attractions for a month at a time or longer to work on them. They did the same when EC came along and right on until the 1990s when refurbs seemed to be viewed as 'only if it is about to fall apart.'

Now with four gates, and the vast majority of guests visiting multiple Disney parks on a visit, you can't close a major attraction?

Nope. Don't buy it. Bad argument.

If someone's whole vacation revolves around one attraction then they may need to address why they're taking the trip.

This is the same 'logic' that got MK a half-a$$ed rehab of PoC, while DL got an amazing state of the art upgrade.

It's the same 'logic' used to do a basic redo of Space Mountain and not any of the more exciting and pushing-the-line concepts that Disney could have.

This idea that all attractions should be up and running every day for every guest is ridiculous and perpetuates a general lowering of quality.

And to say Phil took the budget and bought flat screens is ridiculous - do you really think he is so crazy to utilize attraction money to buy TV screens? And does it really add up? Flat TVs are a couple of $100 - attraction reburbs are in the $ millions. Come on.

C'mon, gimmee a little credit. Of course the money didn't go simply into the tunnel TVs. That was just an example. TDO got extra money and put that money into 'infrastructure improvements' ... Part of that was spent on TVs that try and sell the Disney Difference to CMs 24/7.

And the Nightmare overlay really is genius because it really isn't all that costly at all. That's how it first got approved for DL to begin with.

I also dispute your AK story. Beth didnt care about attractions and shows, just the animals (which she did a great job of) .

The animals were her first priority as well they should have been. But 'didn't care' about the rest? I never got that impression at all.

You talk about balance - During her time AK was internally rated the worst guest service park of the lot. Guess what, Val has turned that around. You cant take the poor state of Everest and call the entire park a disaster, because that just isnt true. Everest should be fixed, we all know that.

I don't know how DAK rated on Disney's own rankings ... I do know that park ops have taken a nose-dive since Val took over. She's cut custodial, including the regular pressure-cleaning of walkways (a la MK). Dinosaur has been a disaster everytime I've been on it in the past 18 months. And we all know about Everest. The park is noticeably dirtier. I also know that folks at WDI that have a vested interest in the park are very unhappy with the way the park is being run.

I've been told they just cut eight guest service managers at the front with the latest cutbacks, so I am sure that's gonna just make matters worse.

 

[imagineer boy]

You know, Disney should make it a priority to let people who are planning their visits know which of the attractions are going to be closed during their visit then they can either reschudule or be prepared for it so that they don't arrive disapointed a submit complaints.

 

[WDW1974]

This will probably stray to far into the political notion, but if you want to look for a basic problem in the world, it's this idea of anyone that makes more money than the average is bad. The hatred of execs or someone making more money than they is unbelievable. I assume if you ever get a great promotion and make executive pay, you will just give it back to everyone that works for you.

Sorry, but that's just a crock.

There are many basic problems in the world from hunger to genocide to curing cancer and AIDS and countless other maladies ... worrying about some people thinking execs may make too much money really isn't one of them. But thanks for playing!

I know plenty of execs in many businesses that make large sums of money and they are worth every penny. And I know just as many, likely more, who are compensated just as well, or better, and are largely incompetent.

It may kill this thread prematurely by trying to make it something it isn't (and the mods here tend to have touchy trigger fingers).

You can't paint all execs (even Disney execs) with the same brush. Some should make more than what they do ... and some should be selling used Buicks.

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
To be blunt, I have little sympathy for anyone at his level who loses their job, even if it isn't fair because anyone who is a seven-figure exec (and with his compensation package and years of stock options and bonuses, Phil qualifies) doesn't engender sympathy from me when people with children are living in tent cities these days. If an exec has to downsize from a mansion to a mini McMansion then so be it ... if they have to buy a car to replace the company one, again so be it. If they have to dip into their savings (since they're lucky enough to be able to put away significant sums) again sorry, but no sympathy.

Onward to Socialism in the US! :brick:

Sometimes I think I am communicating with Rush Limbaugh's audience here.

I am not saying more because I don't want anyone using it as a reason for killing an interesting thread. But just a question ... how the heck do you jump from Point A to Point Z?

Someone doesn't have sympathy for execs losing jobs and somehow they're socialists?

Seems like a huge, and ignorant, leap.

Do people still not comprehend that Disney (whatever it might have been 20 or 50 years ago) is now a business, and as such is driven by financial considerations. How can you honestly think that these trivial things will impact attendance? Do I want the Yeti fixed? yea, do I think it's embarrassing and an affront to "Disney mentality" yes, but does it stop one person from getting in the line to ride.....NO.

Disney has been a business since Walt and Roy first incoporated.
Disney has always been about making money.
But in the last 10-15 years there has been a switch to just complete greed and giving lip service to all of the things that made Disney what it was/is.

I am very sick of hearing the argument that you can't make money by putting out a quality product ... because it goes against everything that made Disney world reknown and it also contributes to this WalMart/LCD mentality that has overtaken the USA.

6 Flags is going under, Busch parks are to be sold off or whatever....Universal is doing OK...but with HP what, 1+ years delayed....

SF did some incredibly stupid expanding ... buying up every park it could, many at multiples of what they were worth. If they go under, which I don't see happening, then it is the fault of those who made those decisions.

BEC's parks are doing incredibly well. Aquatica is doing huge numbers in Orlando. SWO had one of its best Januarys ever. The fact the parks are on the market has nothing to do with how they are doing and everything to do with letting another foreign behemoth buy out an American company (and an institution) and then do a slash and burn to pay off the debt.

UNI is not only investing huge sums in its domestic parks, but is also on a huge building campaign in Singapore, Seoul, Dubai and Beijing (although I'll believe the last two when they open and not until!)

The bottom line is, Disney may not be what it was, or what it's Credo challenges it to be, or most importantly, what I want it to be , but it's doing pretty darn OK from a business sense....so if you expect any of our "fanboy" wishlists to be addressed "because it's required by Disney" is sadly mistaken.

Actually, Disney isn't doing very well ... and quarter two fiscal results likely played a huge role in the WDW bloodletting as Iger and Rasulo are going to need to show Wall Street that they are on top of things in this 'challenging economic climate' when the numbers are released (I believe very early May).

 

[SirGoofy]

This is the same 'logic' that got MK a half-a$$ed rehab of PoC, while DL got an amazing state of the art upgrade.

It's the same 'logic' used to do a basic redo of Space Mountain and not any of the more exciting and pushing-the-line concepts that Disney could have.

That pirates rehab is really what gets me. The ride in all honesty is in terrible shape. It's in better shape than some of the other attractions, but that's only because it went down for a prolonged period of time.

I'll reserve judgment on the SM one.

I don't know how DAK rated on Disney's own rankings ... I do know that park ops have taken a nose-dive since Val took over. She's cut custodial, including the regular pressure-cleaning of walkways (a la MK). Dinosaur has been a disaster everytime I've been on it in the past 18 months. And we all know about Everest. The park is noticeably dirtier. I also know that folks at WDI that have a vested interest in the park are very unhappy with the way the park is being run.

I've been told they just cut eight guest service managers at the front with the latest cutbacks, so I am sure that's gonna just make matters worse.

Gotta agree. I love DAK because of the atmosphere and the animals, but from an attraction stand point, its a mess. Dinosaur effects work sporadically, and the flagship attraction of the park has 1 effect working as it should. Not to mention Primeval Whirl is literally a painful experience.

 

[WDW1974]

Oh there's no limit to what WDW and the Parks and Resorts division CAN do.

Well, I don't know about that.

Way too many Legends have passed away and way too many of the folks who were trained by them or looked up to them as inspirations have been pushed out.

Do I think Disney can still create amazing experiences? Yes. But way too often when they have spent the money, the results haven't been there.

Your problem shouldn't be with Phil Holmes; he's a man who is making the best out of what he's given and allowed to do.

I don't believe that to be true at all ... and if it is, then it certainly speaks to his need to be replaced.

The big problem is that for the past 10-15 years, WDW has been looked at as the cash cow for the entire company. Profits are not being kept in Orlando and not reinvested into the parks. They go back to Glendale and make the board of directors oodles of money.

Cash cow? Sure. Money going to Glendale and Board? Uhm ... no.

You think that by replacing Phil the current scenerio will change?

I think someone else could do a much better job of running that park on a day to day basis, yes.

That doesn't mean E-Tix will sprout like grass after a rainy period. Just that things can be done better.

If you don't think so, ask some of the folks who actually work at the park.

 

[SirGoofy]

If you don't think so, ask some of the folks who actually work at the park.

Apparently we don't know what we're talking about though.

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
So DDP is a good idea but implemented poorly to squeeze every dime out.

Strictly as a business decision, this is a good thing.

The DDP plays an important role, together with ME and the MYW ticket structure, in "Destination Disney." The idea: if someone is visiting Central Florida, Disney wants to capture every last minute and penny of their vacation time and money. From this perspective, DDP has been a runaway success, and that's why it's been expanded again this year with QSDP.

From a quality point of view? DDP is a disaster. No two ways about it. But, right now, the metric isn't quality. It's profit. And, from that standpoint, The Powers That Be in Orlando are doing fine.

It will be interesting to see how "fine" they do in the face of this downturn. That might be one hope for real change.

The Destination Disney intiative has been very successful since it began ... and DDP as well.

That's the sad thing.

Even when I was there last month and it wasn't THAT crowded, every decent table serve locale was seemingly booked.

And with all the price point increases, people jump to the conclusion that DDP is 'a great deal' ... well, yeah when you put a $23 hamburger on the menu at Chefs de France ... and when you add numerous 'holiday' surcharges at buffets ... and when crappy quick serve for four could set you back $45-65 ... it may be.

But it is destroying quality dining at WDW.

 

[Computer Magic]

Apparently we don't know what we're talking about though.

Well in this case WDW1974 doesn't know PhotoDave :lol:

 

[krankenstein]

Apparently we don't know what we're talking about though.

I was thinking the same thing. :brick:

 

[HMF]

Quote:
Sometimes I think I am communicating with Rush Limbaugh's audience here.

I am not saying more because I don't want anyone using it as a reason for killing an interesting thread. But just a question ... how the heck do you jump from Point A to Point Z?

Someone doesn't have sympathy for execs losing jobs and somehow they're socialists?

Seems like a huge, and ignorant, leap.
.

I agree completley.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Well in this case WDW1974 doesn't know PhotoDave :lol:

Heh... Steve insists that I play nice. I'm not getting banned over some fanboy.

 

[mkt]

If you don't think so, ask some of the folks who actually work at the park.

Dave worked at the parks long enough to know when they're being poorly run.

kthxbai!

 

[EpcotServo]

It's COMPLETELY reasonable for us to get Haunted Mansion Holiday.

Any excuses used against it, are inherently flawed.

That is all I have to say!

 

[mkt]

In the eyes of a fanboy, it doesn't matter how long you worked there, who you know there, how many shares you own, how often you're at the parks, etc...

Because in their minds, they're always +1 on everything you are.

Now excuse me. It's quarter to 11 on a Saturday. Time to get ready for IRL fun

 

[mkt]

It's COMPLETELY reasonable for us to get Haunted Mansion Holiday.

Any excuses used against it, are inherently flawed.

That is all I have to say!

Double edged sword.

On one side, the investment could be recouped by increased visitors in the park attracted by this as a "new" attraction.

On the other side, it means it's definitely gonna be shuttered for a few weeks/months for the transformation from HM to HMH, which could lead to fewer visitors during those periods.

It could balance out, but without it being a certainty, they're likely too chicken**** to try it.

Unless the increased guest flow is substantial enough, over a sufficiently prolonged period, they face the risk of not recouping the original investment. And as sad as this is (and I cannot believe I'm going to say this), Disney is a company. A company with Employees (CM's) who need to be paid, and shareholders to who need to be kept happy.

No excuses here. Just a few moments to think about it from more than one perspective and a few moments to write those thoughts down.

 

[wdwmagic]

Please. I don't get this idea -- and it is a relatively new one -- that you can't close major attractions at WDW. I know it is a great excuse to allow them to fall apart, and to not plus them regularly.

But there's no logic to it. Not when WDW brands itself as FOUR PARKS: ONE WORLD.

I recall when there was only the MK. They'd annually close most attractions for a month at a time or longer to work on them. They did the same when EC came along and right on until the 1990s when refurbs seemed to be viewed as 'only if it is about to fall apart.'

Now with four gates, and the vast majority of guests visiting multiple Disney parks on a visit, you can't close a major attraction?

Nope. Don't buy it. Bad argument.

It's a great argument, and a very valid argument.

I'm sure you know this, but I think it needs pointing out again as you arent following the logic.

DL has a largely local guest base who are OK with their mansion closing, because they know they can be back in a few weeks to catch it again. WDW has a guest base made of vactioners who visit on average every 2 - 3 years. They plan years ahead and EXPECT (and DEMAND) to see their favorite attraction open. HM is a WDW classic that guests DEMAND to see on their trip. It is simply not feasible to close it each year just to put in a version that appeals to Nightmare fans. I like the nightmare DL edition, but I still prefer the regular WDW mansion. I fully agree with WDI and WDW Ops for not going with Nightmare. Even if it were a free upgrade (which it obviously isnt) I wouldnt back it. WDW cannot have the mansion down for 4 months each year.

You point out they used to close attractions in the old days. Back then, they didnt have the constant research and surveys that they have now. They know realise that closing major attractions causes a very large guest dissatisfation rating. Hence the reason they are very scared to close one of the big attractions these days. And yes, the rating is lower for a closure than it is for a missing effect. Like it or not, that's how it is. We live in a world of stats and research these days.

WDW is stuck in between the guest demand for EVERYTHING to be open, and the demand for every attraction ot be refurbished and in 100% condition. It's obviously a difficult balancing act.

 

[wdwmagic]

C'mon, gimmee a little credit. Of course the money didn't go simply into the tunnel TVs. That was just an example. TDO got extra money and put that money into 'infrastructure improvements' ... Part of that was spent on TVs that try and sell the Disney Difference to CMs 24/7.

You were the one that brought it up, not me

Have you been down to the tunels lately? Do you know how many LCD tvs are down there? If you knew, you would realise how crazy it is even bringing up the subject of TVs as a way of spending refurbishment money.

Do you really think Phil is some kind of lunatic that would rather just sit on money and flat out reject new attractions just to be a total (insert choice of term here)? I know you dislike how Disney is ran, but you cant seriously believe that is the case.

 

[EpcotServo]

Double edged sword.

On one side, the investment could be recouped by increased visitors in the park attracted by this as a "new" attraction.

On the other side, it means it's definitely gonna be shuttered for a few weeks/months for the transformation from HM to HMH, which could lead to fewer visitors during those periods.

It could balance out, but without it being a certainty, they're likely too chicken**** to try it.

Unless the increased guest flow is substantial enough, over a sufficiently prolonged period, they face the risk of not recouping the original investment. And as sad as this is (and I cannot believe I'm going to say this), Disney is a company. A company with Employees (CM's) who need to be paid, and shareholders to who need to be kept happy.

No excuses here. Just a few moments to think about it from more than one perspective and a few moments to write those thoughts down.

Noted! Now go and party, you've earned it...
:lol:

WDW cannot have the mansion down for 4 months each year.

WDW NEEDS to have Mansion down for 4 months each year.

It's why all the rides at WDW are always in such poor shape compared to that of Disneyland and TDR.

 

[wdwmagic]

I think someone else could do a much better job of running that park on a day to day basis, yes.

That doesn't mean E-Tix will sprout like grass after a rainy period. Just that things can be done better.

If you don't think so, ask some of the folks who actually work at the park.

Do you know what? I have done just that! Everyone I have been able to talk to about this that works at the MK doesnt think there is a serious issue with Phil. A few ex CP on this thread do, and they seem to be talking the loudest.