Rude Space Mt CM...AGAIN!!

TIGGER-FAN

New Member
Originally posted by tazhughes
Tigger-Fan if you had been the officer responding and closed it out you would have been wrong. You are a police officer not an officer of the court and it is not your role to interpret the law. What Merlin did was in fact a Battery and if you need a couple "big" cases to read on topic try Vosburg v. Putney (a landmark case on the issue where a child tapped another child with his foot under a desk) or White v. University of Idaho (a professor 'played piano' [ie. lightly tapped] on the back of a student and the court held the claim valid despite lack of intent to harm or offend). Now that we have established that there is some validity to Woody's claim (though I hate agreeing with him) the reality is that these claims hold up on the civil side and a judge or prosecutor (again not a police officer) will likely dismiss unless there is more to this then Merlin is telling us like the force with which he tapped. Hwever if the CM wanted to bring a civil suit there would be a line of lawyers to take up the case especially since Disney would be enjoined in this case as well. The 2 lessons here: 1.don't touch strangers especially if you and that stranger have been confrontational and 2. Police officers should not try to make decisions that should be left to court officers or juries.

I respect your opinion, however you are talking apples and oranges. Law Enforcement does not work civil cases. Civil cases are handled by lawyers. Even if Merlin was found guilty in a civil case, he would not be burdened by a criminal record.
 

TIGGER-FAN

New Member
Originally posted by no2apprentice
It's called the spirit of the law.

My point exeactly.:sohappy: We as Law Enforcement Officers are given a tool called discretion. If I was to lock up every person for every complaint I would lose my job because there would be no one left on the streets. All I am trying to say is, a complaint for some one simply tapping another on the shoulder would not hold up in any FLORIDA CRIMINAL COURT. I am not going to burden an allready overworked court system with another case that will be thrown out by the State Attorney's Office before it ever reaches the courtroom. If the CM wanted to pursue it on the civil side, have a nut, what I am saying is just because Merlin tapped the kid on the shoulder does not mean he is a criminal like Woody13 is trying to make him out to be.
 

TLS

Member
WHO CARES ????!!!!!

Not to be rude or anything, but Merlin is TOTALLY correct in the way he went about things. MANY of us would do the same thing.

This CM deserves to be reprimanded, so as to prevent this action from happening again.

Like Merlin said, its his body language and tone that were the problem.

Problem is, when Merlin attempted to rectify the situation through the CM's superiors, there was a SEVERE lack of concern by Disney for Merlins' situation.

I haven't seen ride operator actions like that from even cheezy places like Six Flags GA where actions such as this are almost accepted!


Please STOP the bantering about the leagalities issue. The Horse has been beaten enough. The Cop's WEREN'T called, so none of these "What If's".



OK,......I'm done now.
 

tazhughes

Member
While you are correct that those are civil cases (decided by a jury) the point and I stated was that officers should not be making that judgement call. More importantly though Merlin should not have touched the kid, he says he tapped the kid. He also said the kid told him not to grab him, so there seems to be a difference in opinion. Merlin (a week later) still seems ed and he may have used more force than he realized and the bottom line for a battery is that he did have an intent to contact. What he did after that I completely support and I believe he should write all the letters he can and scream from the highest mountain about it. However when he touched him (whether you two officers who believe you have the power to decide this) like it or not that was a crime, but like I said before for judicial efficiency this would probably never have seen a courtroom the DA either would have kicked it or if the CM was intent on pursuing (and he ultimately has the discretion here) then Merlin would have probably had to just plea it out and paid costs.
 

tazhughes

Member
Now back to the real issue. Merlin I agree with you completely in all of your other actions ane I believe that the CM should have most certainly been counseled on his performance. The fact that no one on the spot reacted in a way to make you feel better is unacceptable and I hope they rectify this for you. For all of our good keep on trying.:)
 

Becky

Active Member
I tried to stay out of this but I can't.

Law enforcement officers in most states DO have discreationary arrest powers.

The officer makes a determination on whether a law/statute has been violated and then makes a determination on whether to issue a warning (license plate light out at night for example) or issue a ticket or make a formal arrest.

Who gave these officers this power. In some states the state legislature in other the courts themselves.

Now why would the courts want LEO's to do some of there job? Because the case loads of most courts are overwelming. If this tap on the shoulder would have been taken to most courts the judge would probably contact the probate court to order a sanity hearing for the officer and the prosecuter.

The LEO's on here are 105% correct in stating what should have happened if they were called.
 

HappyWDWVisitor

New Member
Interesting thread. I'm new here, and this was the second one I read. There are some good points here, but some people need to relax. After reading some of Woody13's comments, my only thought is that if he needed a Labotomy right now, it would probably need to be performed rectally. :hammer: Sorry if that seems rude, but I think maybe he needs professional help.
Merlin, I agree with everything you have said, and I think your actions at the time were justified.
 

Merlin

Account Suspended
Original Poster
Thanks for your support everyone....well, MOSTLY everyone! LOL!

I guess as far as the legal tangent that has been stirred up here, how about if I put that to rest by simply stating this: I don't care. If what I did was illegal, then the laws definitely need to be reexamined in my opinion, but that's another matter entirely.

So if I could make a request that instead of lecturing me on my supposed "criminal activity" (for those of you who feel that's what I'm guilty of), maybe just refrain from commenting in general. You've stated your cases and, correct or not, most of the members on this thread seem to disagree. If that's any indication of how a jury would look at it as well, I think I'm pretty safe.

Having said that, any advice from those of you who aren't obsessed with the belief that I broke the law and "abused" this CM?
 

raven

Well-Known Member
If this should happen to anyone in the future, ask to see a "lead" for that attraction.

A "lead" is Disney's term for manager (as in "lead role" following the theatrical acpects of the company). Cast Members should not act in this way at all. We are trained to take care of the guests. The "guests" are our income after all. But it goes way beyond the income. CM's are constaintly trained and tested on their Guest Service. The CM who did this needs to be written up due to poor Guest Servive and should be moved to a backstage possition where he would not have direct interation with guests.
 

Pixie Duster

New Member
Lead do not exist in WDW on in Disney Store. I was a Lead at DS and wanted to be the equivalent here in WDW, but there really isn't one. The closest is a TS who is a temporary manager audtioning to be a statused manager.
 

Heyyall

New Member
I just read through this entire thread..
and it does seem like some of us like to bring things up just to make a debate out of it
Merlin you handled it just fine....I would have done the same thing.
Sorry you had to deal with a rude cast member
 

HMGhost13

New Member
Originally posted by Maria
*ding ding ding*

Are we having an online box match? The testosterone level is very hig here! Girls... come over! Bring some popcorn! :lol:

Relax guys, or I´m calling the stripp -err cops. :lookaroun :wave:

too late for the popcorn?
 

Woody13

New Member
Originally posted by HMGhost13
too late for the popcorn?

Pop up a new batch! Why is it that some guests (I'm not talking about disabled people) have to pick and choose about where they sit in a ride? Can't they just follow directions and sit where they are told to sit? Why do they have to slow down and disrupt the entire load area and the many folks waiting in line? Isn't half the fun of a ride the luck of the draw?

Just imagine the problems that would ensue if more and more people demanded a particular seat on a ride! :D
 

EpcoTim

Well-Known Member
Im glad im not a CM at times like this. With all the people that pass through there a day, if 1 percent of them touched me, there would be a serious problem. That CM may have been rude to you first, but you have NO RIGHT to touch him, regardless of how you did it. He doesnt know you, or most of the guests for that matter. How is he to know what your intentions are? Who are you to approach and touch him while he conducts his business? Hes a person, an employee, just like you are a guest. Do you want every CM you come across tapping you on the shoulder? There are much better ways to go about what you did, disturbing and disrespecting a CM are not one of them. Think of how many times a day that poor guy gets poked, tapped, grabbed, etc. All for stupid, insignificant matters. Hes one CM, "youre" a horde of guests. You said it yourself, the customer.......is the customer. Not the owner, mother or boss. Im not saying he was right in being rude to you, but if I had demanding A*oles doing that to me all day long, Id get angry also. I never, ever go into a store and "tap" an employee, instead, a simple and polite "excuse me" will usually elicit a much more kind response. Next time your mechanic is under the hood of your car, walk up and tap his shoulder, or better yet, lay on the horn. Do the same to a cop walking his beat. Or walk around a mall, start tapping peoples shoulders, see how many happy people you find when they realize what you are doing.
 

WDW-Imagineer

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Woody13
All ready backed it up Merlin. However, you still don't recognize the several problems you created. While the CM was rude, your behavior was criminal in nature. Are you above the law? You need to "chill out" and reflect upon your actions. Perhaps an anger management course would help you.

This is hilarious.... do we have a Smilie for a troll? :hammer:
 

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