Rude Space Mt CM...AGAIN!!

[The Mom]

Again, there is no excuse for the rude response! As Merlin stated, there was "body language, facial expression, and tone of voice" involved. "It's not what you said, but how you said it." He could have kept it light, such as, "Why don't we give someone else a chance to ride in front this time?" Then you would have had the option of sitting elsewhere or waiting for the next ride.

But I also know that sometimes it's difficult to keep annoyance out of your voice when a guest (or in my case, patient) makes what they perceive to be a reasonable request (and under usual circumstances would be granted with a smile) at an inconvenient time, due to circumstances of which they have no knowledge. (ie, there's a code on the other wing, and I'm covering three times as many patients than earlier until it's over)

 

[TIGGER-FAN]

Originally posted by Woody13
Well Merlin, you are guilty of several criminal offenses by your own admission! The main problem is your battery (unwanted touching) of the CM. Why do you persist in this type of disruptive behavior? You are lucky the CM did not press charges against you.

Hey Merlin,

I am a Law Enforcement Officer here in Florida and what you described would NOT! be considered a battery. Under Florida State Statues, you have to have intent to bring harm upon the other person. This was not the case as you described it. Simply tapping a person on the shoulder to get their attention is not a battery. I also would like to know what the other criminal offenses are? Good for you for sticking to your guns. I have run into several rude cast members on my many trips to the world.

 

[Merlin]

Originally posted by objr
I agree with The Mom...perception is everything, however I have encountered some CMs who think that just becuase they work for Disney...they have some sort of God-like power and/or right...

Most CMs are great people...with great attitudes and loads of patience....

Perhaps the CM--Mark....was having a bad day....the fact is no matter what the CM should not have had that attitude....while I understand that guests can be annoying at times....CMs should be patient unless a guest crosses the line and either injures or attempts to injure a CM or another guest...

Sorry you encountered a rude CM Merlin....

Thanks! And yes I agree with you. The overwhelming majority of CMs are awesome. That's what makes the less than stellar ones (like Mark) stand out as especially bad. But even compared to the bad ones, Mark stood out as terrible because he was seemingly malicious about it, rather than simply appearing to be having a bad day. This is hard to describe, but he almost seemed to be enjoying encounter. He didn't come across as being annoyed with us in any way. He was really just being a jerk, frankly.

Actually, objr, I think you nailed it with your observation that many CMs seem to have an attitude of superiority. Again, this doesn't apply to the overwhelming majority, but to just a few. And I think that would be the best way to describe Mark on Space Mountain. As I mentioned, he just seemed to be on a power trip and thought of his position as some sort of authority figure.

 

[Merlin]

Originally posted by TIGGER-FAN
Hey Merlin,

I am a Law Enforcement Officer here in Florida and what you described would NOT! be considered a battery. Under Florida State Statues, you have to have intent to bring harm upon the other person. This was not the case as you described it. Simply tapping a person on the shoulder to get their attention is not a battery. I also would like to know what the other criminal offenses are? Good for you for sticking to your guns. I have run into several rude cast members on my many trips to the world.

Whew! Well that's a relief! I was worried that I might need to dye my hair, cash in my bank accounts, grab my passport and leave the country for this "criminal offense"! LOL! Seriously, thanks for the clarification and support, TIGGER-FAN! As for the "other criminal offenses" Woody13 referred to, well,...all I can say is this isn't the first time Woody13 has made remarks that can't be backed up. It's likely the last we'll hear from them regarding that topic.

I'll definitely continue to stick to my guns on this one and let everyone know how it all plays out. Meanwhile, I'll welcome any additional input or suggestions. Thanks!

 

[Maria]

I just can´t keep quiet, huh?

I agree with Merlin when he says that if the CM is not having a good time repeating "how many in your party?" to sit them on a ride, he/she needs to be placed in another position. I know this by experience, but I swear to God I never lost the smile on my face when asking that because for the guest, it was the first time I said it. Same with the greetings. But anyways... I did get frustrated many times, specially after those ten hour shifts in the boatride in Mexico, and I always blamed the managers for the stupid rotation system they had... not that I could come up with too many improvements, but you get the idea... I think this particular cast member was fed up that day to the point that he couldn´t avoid showing it. Maybe he wanted to get an "ER" (early release), who knows... I´m not approving what he did, eh?

I also see The Mom´s point... it would pi$s me off for sure but the cast member would be able to notice it. I´d probably speak out an tell him I want to ride in the front, just as the others did. I don´t know how the system really works, but maybe if the cm asks "do you mind?" or something like that, things can be solved with no biggie.

 

[Scooter]

I'm going to do a little Devils' Advocating myself here.

Merlin...I read your original Post 3 times so I would be clear on what happened.

Here's MY thoughts.

You said you rode the ride TWICE in a row and got to ride in the front seats. You were going on it a 3rd time and that's when the difficulties started.

Seems to me 2 out of 3 good rides aren't bad.
And, while I will admit that's it's unacceptable behaviour for a Disney Castmember to be rude, if you have only had to deal with a grouchy Castmember once every 4 YEARS I'd say that's not all that bad.

I deal with grouchy people every day.
:brick:

I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish by tracing down this kids manager, but havn't you ever had a bad day?

I'm not suggesting that what this person did was OK....I'm just saying maybe you need to let go of this pent up anger, forgive this guy, and move on with your life.

Maybe a relative of his passed away and he couldn't get off work for the day and was upset. Maybe his girlfriend (or boyfriend) dumped him. Maybe he got word that he was going to get laid off and was worried about how to make ends meet and make that car payment.

There's two sides to every story and we don't know his.

Disney has eyes and ears on ALL their employees.

If this guy is the rude and obnoxious person that you make him out to be, then it's only a matter of time before he gets the Ax.

So I say..take the freebies they offer you, forget about this incident, and let go of the anger.

You'll live longer. :animwink:

 

[lebernadin]

Originally posted by Merlin
If I had gotten something like that, I wouldn't have pursued the issue any further. But instead, the "coordinator" involved barely listened to me, seemed rushed even though it was basically dead at the park that day, and jumped to the assumption that giving me something would resolve the situation. That is a mistake that is commonly made by companies. But Disney's own service training materials emphasize that this is a poor way to handle service recovery. I've spent the past 11 years as a corporate trainer, specializing in customer service, so I possess some expertise on the subject.

Hmm your background is in corporate training, specializing in customer service.

If someone is a hotel manager back home, flys down to Disney, and checks into a Disney resort, i'm sure during their stay at said Disney resort there will be a number of things this person will point out for themself that their wife/husband/kids/friends couldn't, simply because they work in that field.

Honestly, i think if you try and just leave work at home while on vacation, merlin, you'll have a better time. I know its tough, and i'm guilty of it myself; critiquing other chefs' work 3 nights a week on average. But i don't let it get to me in a personal way. I just tell myself what i would/wouldn't have done and that's that.

You said you were a former cast member, in either this or the pirates thread. So that combined with being a corporate CS trainer for 11 years is definately the setup for, i'm sure, alot of self-perceived customer service catastrophes since you entered the field.

Like i said, try and leave "the briefcase" at home whether it be on vacation or even a sublte thing as going out to dinner.

 

[Woody13]

Well, for those of you still interested, I have posted the current Florida law concerning battery. Please note that only one element is required (i.e. "Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other..") to make a violation. You do not have to cause harm or have any intent to cause harm. If you intentionally touch someone against their will, that is unlawful. California law is very similar as is federal law.


The 2003 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 784
ASSAULT; BATTERY; CULPABLE NEGLIGENCE View Entire Chapter

784.03 Battery; felony battery.--

(1)(a) The offense of battery occurs when a person:

1. Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other; or

2. Intentionally causes bodily harm to another person.

(b) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person who commits battery commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(2) A person who has one prior conviction for battery, aggravated battery, or felony battery and who commits any second or subsequent battery commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. For purposes of this subsection, "conviction" means a determination of guilt that is the result of a plea or a trial, regardless of whether adjudication is withheld or a plea of nolo contendere is entered.

History.--s. 5, Feb. 10, 1832; RS 2401; s. 1, ch. 5135, 1903; GS 3227; RGS 5060; CGL 7162; s. 2, ch. 70-88; s. 730, ch. 71-136; s. 19, ch. 74-383; s. 9, ch. 75-298; s. 172, ch. 91-224; s. 5, ch. 96-392; s. 4, ch. 2001-50.


:animwink:

 

[Sir Hiss527]

Not Again....This isn't right it's probablly some kid who dosn't even like his job, and he's just there to get paid. I'm sorry this happend to you.

 

[johnvree]

Originally posted by Woody13
Well Merlin, you are guilty of several criminal offenses by your own admission! The main problem is your battery (unwanted touching) of the CM. Why do you persist in this type of disruptive behavior? You are lucky the CM did not press charges against you.

ARE YOU KIDDING? First, lay off the Law & Order for a while. Second, your comment overlooks the fact that the CM was incredibly rude before Merlin tapped him.

Like all of us, Merlin paid a lot of money for the Disney experience, and he didn't get at SM. He came here looking for help. Your response was not helpful.

 

[TIGGER-FAN]

Originally posted by Woody13
Well, for those of you still interested, I have posted the current Florida law concerning battery. Please note that only one element is required (i.e. "Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other..") to make a violation. You do not have to cause harm or have any intent to cause harm. If you intentionally touch someone against their will, that is unlawful. California law is very similar as is federal law.


The 2003 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 784
ASSAULT; BATTERY; CULPABLE NEGLIGENCE View Entire Chapter

784.03 Battery; felony battery.--

(1)(a) The offense of battery occurs when a person:

1. Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other; or

2. Intentionally causes bodily harm to another person.

(b) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person who commits battery commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(2) A person who has one prior conviction for battery, aggravated battery, or felony battery and who commits any second or subsequent battery commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. For purposes of this subsection, "conviction" means a determination of guilt that is the result of a plea or a trial, regardless of whether adjudication is withheld or a plea of nolo contendere is entered.

History.--s. 5, Feb. 10, 1832; RS 2401; s. 1, ch. 5135, 1903; GS 3227; RGS 5060; CGL 7162; s. 2, ch. 70-88; s. 730, ch. 71-136; s. 19, ch. 74-383; s. 9, ch. 75-298; s. 172, ch. 91-224; s. 5, ch. 96-392; s. 4, ch. 2001-50.


:animwink:

I will give you this, you are very good at quoting Florida Law, however, no state attorney's office would prosecute this. I guess what I need to do is start pressing charges on evey single person that has ever hit my ankles with a stroller while at WDW. Or better yet press charges on every single person that has ever bumped into me on a line at WDW. If you think that Merlin would be arrested for taping the CM on the shoulder, you are wrong. No even better, press charges against the characters when they hug your children. Come on!!! :brick:

 

[Woody13]

Originally posted by johnvree
ARE YOU KIDDING? First, lay off the Law & Order for a while. Second, your comment overlooks the fact that the CM was incredibly rude before Merlin tapped him.

Like all of us, Merlin paid a lot of money for the Disney experience, and he didn't get at SM. He came here looking for help. Your response was not helpful.

This does not justify violating the law. The battery law applies to both private and public property. The knowledge gained in understanding the law is very useful and helpful.

 

[Woody13]

Originally posted by TIGGER-FAN
I will give you this, you are very good at quoting Florida Law, however, no state attorney's office would prosecute this. I guess what I need to do is start pressing charges on evey single person that has ever hit my ankles with a stroller while at WDW. Or better yet press charges on every single person that has ever bumped into me on a line at WDW. If you think that Merlin would be arrested for taping the CM on the shoulder, you are wrong. No even better, press charges against the characters when they hug your children. Come on!!! :brick:

You need to read and understand the law. Accidental touching is not a violation of law. Children are covered under another section of law. Remember too that it has to be both intentional and unwanted. Also, case law abounds in these types of battery prosecutions.

 

[johnvree]

Originally posted by Woody13
You need to read and understand the law. Accidental touching is not a violation of law. Children are covered under another section of law. Remember too that it has to be both intentional and unwanted. Also, case law abounds in these types of battery prosecutions.

Cite me one case in which the State sustained its burden for battery charges where the defendant merely tapped someone on the shoulder to get his/her attention. Looking forward to your reply.

 

[TIGGER-FAN]

Originally posted by Woody13
You need to read and understand the law. Accidental touching is not a violation of law. Children are covered under another section of law. Remember too that it has to be both intentional and unwanted. Also, case law abounds in these types of battery prosecutions.

Let me ask you one simple question, are you a lawyer?

 

[TIGGER-FAN]

Originally posted by Woody13
You need to read and understand the law. Accidental touching is not a violation of law. Children are covered under another section of law. Remember too that it has to be both intentional and unwanted. Also, case law abounds in these types of battery prosecutions.

And by the way, I do understand the law, that is my job every single day. I have arrested many people on battery charges, but never on something like a simple tap on the shoulder. You say you know the law, well good, but you have to also relize with so many laws on the books, we could literaly put the entire population of the U.S in jail for one charge or another. What I am saying is ease up a bit. All Merlin did was to try and rationalize with someone who did not care. You are making it sound as if he is a criminal!

 

[TIGGER-FAN]

Originally posted by Woody13
You need to read and understand the law. Accidental touching is not a violation of law. Children are covered under another section of law. Remember too that it has to be both intentional and unwanted. Also, case law abounds in these types of battery prosecutions.

Let me say this as my final word on this subject. If I was the officer to respond to this CM's complaint because Merlin tapped him on the shoulder, I would close it out as unfounded. Had Merlin struck, punched, pushed, kicked or any other thing I would pursue the case. I see nothing wrong in what he did.

 

[no2apprentice]

Originally posted by Woody13
You need to read and understand the law. Accidental touching is not a violation of law. Children are covered under another section of law. Remember too that it has to be both intentional and unwanted. Also, case law abounds in these types of battery prosecutions.

You need to research the case law.

 

[TIGGER-FAN]

Originally posted by no2apprentice
You need to research the case law.

Thank You!

 

[Woody13]

Originally posted by TIGGER-FAN
Let me say this as my final word on this subject. If I was the officer to respond to this CM's complaint because Merlin tapped him on the shoulder, I would close it out as unfounded. Had Merlin struck, punched, pushed, kicked or any other thing I would pursue the case. I see nothing wrong in what he did.

That's why the domestic battery laws were updated. Law enforcement officers often failed to take the proper action. Sorry, but you just can't intentionally touch someone who doesn't want to be touched. Think about it another way. What if I walked up to you and gently stroked your arm with a BIG smile on my face?