Rude Behavior And Temper Outbursts: How Much Is HEAT To Blame?

[PhotoDave219]

Yup......
Many of the angry people are victims of their own lack of planning and the attitude that they are entitled to be treated like royalty.
We were waiting on our table at the Brown Derby last Memorial Day and several times people came in and asked for a table. They were upset when they were told that the restaurant was booked for the evening.
OK.....
You're at WDW.
The most popular place on the planet.
It's a US Holiday.
And you think that you can casually stroll into a very popular restaurant and get a table for four at dinner time.

Even a tiny amount of planning would have told them that reservations are filled months in advance at WDW.

Well thats a larger part of the problem. Disney has it set up that everyone has to plan out their vacations to the Nth degree.

Jumping through constant hoops on vacation isn't any fun and doesn't give people an incentive to return ever again.

 

[jloucks]

WDW has not changed. Quite the opposite; WDW's problem is that it's mostly the same physical structure that it was 15 or even 20 years ago.

Instead, what's changed is the way corporate Disney treats its "Guests".

The concepts of Lean Manufacturing pervade today's WDW. "Guests" are now factory floor inventory to be optimized. Corporate Disney's goal is to maximize profits through operational efficiency. In this pecking order, "Guests" are a distant second.

Guests satisfaction is very important. How it is measured is possibly flawed.

Currently it is measured simply by count. ...and this can be an effective measurement. If there was significant dissatisfaction, people would not return. But they do, therefore satisfaction is high.

 

[seahawk7]

Guests satisfaction is very important. How it is measured is possibly flawed.

Currently it is measured simply by count. ...and this can be an effective measurement. If there was significant dissatisfaction, people would not return. But they do, therefore satisfaction is high.

The Disney reputation and memories a lot of people have gather since childhood has been the reason people return. But eventually even that won't be enough. People have to plan their vacation 6 months out and fast passes 3 months out and now some people have claimed that their fast passes get "lost" on the My Disney Experience and magicband. Could you imagine having to plan exactly where you are going to be every hour you are in the parks just to have it disappear? Hopefully this is a rare snag but even all the love you have for Mickey and his friends will run out. Everyone has their limit. And no I'm not condoning rude behavior.

 

[Goofyernmost]

But by your own logic, the more people adapt and lower their expectations, the less Disney will see any need to improve.

Absolutely, however, all those that are very upset about the changes are still continuing to support the place as well. Those that adapt are happy with what is there and are not running around all in angst! They are actually enjoying what is offered to a large enough degree that they continue to go and ENJOY themselves and not spend their lives enveloped in what used to be nor burdened by the urge to revert back to that past. (If indeed the past that everyone is so hyper about actually did exist) There certainly is a lot of instances, just on this board, of faulty memory and incorrect interpretation of purpose.

 

[jloucks]

The Disney reputation and memories a lot of people have gather since childhood has been the reason people return. But eventually even that won't be enough. People have to plan their vacation 6 months out and fast passes 3 months out and now some people have claimed that their fast passes get "lost" on the My Disney Experience and magicband. Could you imagine having to plan exactly where you are going to be every hour you are in the parks just to have it disappear? Hopefully this is a rare snag but even all the love you have for Mickey and his friends will run out. Everyone has their limit. And no I'm not condoning rude behavior.

If attendance starts to drop, that will absolutely get the attention of the powers that be and affect change.

If

 

[ParentsOf4]

Guests satisfaction is very important. How it is measured is possibly flawed.

Currently it is measured simply by count. ...and this can be an effective measurement. If there was significant dissatisfaction, people would not return. But they do, therefore satisfaction is high.

The Boston Red Sox had attendance of nearly 3 million last year. The team's record was 71-91. Do you think they were highly satisfied?

McDonald's sells more hamburgers than any place in the world. Are their customers highly satisfied?

People I speak with visit WDW perhaps once every 3 or 4 years. Feeling more economically sound then they have in years, they are visiting WDW now. WDW attendance is up as a result. After their trips, do they tell me about their high satisfaction? No, they talk about crowds and prices, without plans to return in the foreseeable future. Are they highly satisfied?

As you readily admit, Disney's surveys are flawed. Even more than that, they are highly manipulative. It is nearly impossible to give Disney a bad rating using one of their surveys. As we've seen in the Atlanta Public Schools cheating scandal, people whose pay are tied to metrics will do whatever it takes to manipulate those metrics to get the results they want.

Iger's compensation is tied to stock price. How much did the company spend buying back company stock in just 2014 alone? Over $6.5 billion.

Kinda makes the $2.2 billion they currently are spending over several years to build Shanghai Disneyland seem like chump change, doesn't it?

The point? Repurchasing stock is a legal way to manipulate stock price. Iger's compensation is based on stock price. It's a reflection of a corporate culture that's less worried about actual results and more concerned with manipulating metrics that affect their pay.

 

[seahawk7]

If attendance starts to drop, that will absolutely get the attention of the powers that be and affect change.

If

This is true. You first.

 

[jloucks]

This is true. You first.

I wan't to! But I can't. control. the. urge. to. go.

ARghhh!

 

[Ralphlaw]

I think the idea of a tipping point is what is being bandied about. People keep coming, attendance is huge, but what if too many feel dissatisfied? One would think there might be a steady decline in attendance once dissatisfaction creeps in, but instead the bottom may simply drop out after one publicized incident of something going wrong, or some economic downturn, or a rise in gas prices.

By the way, it seems to me that the need to over plan is a direct result of huge numbers, not a capricious "Let's make this more complex and less spontaneous" plan by Disney. Face it, given the huge numbers, Disney had to do something about fastpasses so the morning mad scramble wouldn't dry them up by 9:30 a.m. And booking a room 6 months out is necessary because, duh!?, huge numbers of people are booking that early.

Question: What is the perfect solution? Close new entrants to the parks each day before they become too crowded? Spend a few billion dollars on new parks or attractions that may be empty once the next recession hits? Or tap into tech, and put fastpasses at the beck and call of your phone?

A year ago I warned that some of the spontaneity and adventure disappeared once the mad morning scramble for Splash Mountain, Soarin', Toy Story and Everest Fastpasses disappeared. I still feel that way, but I don't know of a perfect solution other than allowing some walk up fastpasses to become available at various times throughout the day while still relying primarily on FP+. Ultra-planning is less fun for many people, and beyond the capabilities of many tech illiterates. You can't just drop in and expect to do premier things. That's sad, but such is the reality until . . . something is built to soak up all the extra people.

 

[seahawk7]

I think the idea of a tipping point is what is being bandied about. People keep coming, attendance is huge, but what if too many feel dissatisfied? One would think there might be a steady decline in attendance once dissatisfaction creeps in, but instead the bottom may simply drop out after one publicized incident of something going wrong, or some economic downturn, or a rise in gas prices.

By the way, it seems to me that the need to over plan is a direct result of huge numbers, not a capricious "Let's make this more complex and less spontaneous" plan by Disney. Face it, given the huge numbers, Disney had to do something about fastpasses so the morning mad scramble wouldn't dry them up by 9:30 a.m. And booking a room 6 months out is necessary because, duh!?, huge numbers of people are booking that early.

Question: What is the perfect solution? Close new entrants to the parks each day before they become too crowded? Spend a few billion dollars on new parks or attractions that may be empty once the next recession hits? Or tap into tech, and put fastpasses at the beck and call of your phone?

A year ago I warned that some of the spontaneity and adventure disappeared once the mad morning scramble for Splash Mountain, Soarin', Toy Story and Everest Fastpasses disappeared. I still feel that way, but I don't know of a perfect solution other than allowing some walk up fastpasses to become available at various times throughout the day while still relying primarily on FP+. Ultra-planning is less fun for many people, and beyond the capabilities of many tech illiterates. You can't just drop in and expect to do premier things. That's sad, but such is the reality until . . . something is built to soak up all the extra people.

I don't think anyone here would dispute having to book your room or dining reservations. Maybe not even the fastpasses but if having to deal with technical glitches that wipe out you dining plans or fastpasses and not get them restored or replaced by CM at Guest Relations even when you have proof is what I'm talking about.
I believe this forum has alleviated a lot of stress for people, I know it has helped me, in getting answers to planning or navigating the ever changing parks in WDW. So even when a family or person plans, they can have their frustration compounded by the heat when they have followed the rules set by Disney, ie using My Disney Experience, and not getting the desired outcome set up by Disney with this app.

 

[Chef Mickey]

The sense of entitlement also kills the mood. People have the mindset of paying "so much" to be there that they are entitled to perfect weather, perfect food, perfect lines, perfect treatment, and perfect everything. If the smallest thing goes wrong, the cost is suddenly prohibitive and people get angry.

I think peoples' finances have a lot to the mood as well. If you can't afford to be there, you're going to be on edge.

 

[Arthur Wellesley]

Well thats a larger part of the problem. Disney has it set up that everyone has to plan out their vacations to the Nth degree.

Jumping through constant hoops on vacation isn't any fun and doesn't give people an incentive to return ever again.

We get TV commercials advertising trips to Michigan. One of the tag lines for the ads is something along the lines of: "The best part about planning the pefect vacation...is not having to do much planning at all."

This describes me perfectly, and why WDW trips seem far less desirable than they were say 10 years ago. Yes, I know *some* planning is required to make any trip enjoyable. But like you said..."to the Nth degree"..."Jumping through constant hoops"...those things are what I go on vacation to escape.

 

[betty rose]

Well thats a larger part of the problem. Disney has it set up that everyone has to plan out their vacations to the Nth degree.

Jumping through constant hoops on vacation isn't any fun and doesn't give people an incentive to return ever again.

Were it not for our daughter, the ultimate planner, (in life, and at home), we would not be going anymore.....I'm just a lazy person that likes to wing it.

 

[PhotoDave219]

The sense of entitlement also kills the mood. People have the mindset of paying "so much" to be there that they are entitled to perfect weather, perfect food, perfect lines, perfect treatment, and perfect everything. If the smallest thing goes wrong, the cost is suddenly prohibitive and people get angry.

I think peoples' finances have a lot to the mood as well. If you can't afford to be there, you're going to be on edge.

Yes, well, not only did you pay a minor mint to get in here.... So did everyone else.

The financial element levels the playing field; everyone gets bent over the barrel.

 

[PhotoDave219]

We get TV commercials advertising trips to Michigan. One of the tag lines for the ads is something along the lines of: "The best part about planning the pefect vacation...is not having to do much planning at all."

This describes me perfectly, and why WDW trips seem far less desirable than they were say 10 years ago. Yes, I know *some* planning is required to make any trip enjoyable. But like you said..."to the Nth degree"..."Jumping through constant hoops"...those things are what I go on vacation to escape.

Myself as well. Which is why Disney isnt a place I want to vacation at. Its a place to visit, see friends.

 

[xstech25]

WDW has not changed. Quite the opposite; WDW's problem is that it's mostly the same physical structure that it was 15 or even 20 years ago.

Instead, what's changed is the way corporate Disney treats its "Guests".

The concepts of Lean Manufacturing pervade today's WDW. "Guests" are now factory floor inventory to be optimized. Corporate Disney's goal is to maximize profits through operational efficiency. In this pecking order, "Guests" are a distant second.

It costs money to enclose/air condition/re-do queues so they are more entertaining like Disney has been doing the past 5 years. That is obviously spending on the guest experience that has nothing to with factory floor inventory being optimized. I think that letters people write and surveys Disney gets has had a lot to do with how they have been spending their money recently.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Thankfully we've never had our plans wiped out. But as DVC members, I think we would get a little better treatment at Guest Services if the problems arose. By the way, how does one get proof of disappearing FP's and dinner reservations? I imagine Guest Services deals with lots of people who claim FP's and reservations but didn't actually get them.

 

[LAKid53]

Thankfully we've never had our plans wiped out. But as DVC members, I think we would get a little better treatment at Guest Services if the problems arose. By the way, how does one get proof of disappearing FP's and dinner reservations? I imagine Guest Services deals with lots of people who claim FP's and reservations but didn't actually get them.

For those high demand ADRs, like BOG, I take a screen shot on my phone. I did that for the precious FP+ and pre-order for BOG just to prove to the CM I really did pre-order our meals.

 

[ParentsOf4]

It costs money to enclose/air condition/re-do queues so they are more entertaining like Disney has been doing the past 5 years. That is obviously spending on the guest experience that has nothing to with factory floor inventory being optimized. I think that letters people write and surveys Disney gets has had a lot to do with how they have been spending their money recently.

I'm unsure how familiar you are with Disney's financial disclosures but Disney's domestic capital expenditures are approaching a record low right now. Those AC and queue retheming you seem to be proud of are chump change for Disney.

Instead of retheming queues so that people are more entertained while they wait in hour-long lines that used to be minimal, how about building new attractions to handle increased demand?

Oh wait, that would cost some serious money.

 

[LAKid53]

I'm unsure how familiar you are with Disney's financial disclosures but Disney's domestic capital expenditures are approaching a record low right now. Those AC and queue retheming you seem to be proud of are chump change for Disney.

Instead of retheming queues so that people are more entertained while they wait in hour-long lines that used to be minimal, how about building new attractions to handle increased demand?

Oh wait, that would cost some serious money.

Well, they'd have to blow out the park boundaries to add more attractions, otherwise you are going to have more rides in the same acreage and I'm not sure that will help the overcrowding due to increased demand. Oh wait, unless they take some away....