River Country Nature Trail to be demolished

[splashtest]

Well it was possible and it did happen....not something I can make up. The doctor I went to back home (rented the boat on the day I left...something to do until the plane left the night) said she saw a few cases of it. I don't recall the name as it was about 9 years ago now. It took 2 days or so to show up. Didn't leave scars, but was very uncomfortable. The open wounds never bled, just oozed....sorry to be graphic. This happened in August, the water was very warm.....bath water like. The doctor believed the parasite was from duck feces.....lol. I laugh now...and did then. It would only happen to me. I have been to Disney over 60 times, and I stay at the Poly a majority of the time. I still rent the water mice, but make sure I rinse off right after.

 

[splashtest]

Here you go.......

http://wild-birds.suite101.com/article.cfm/what_is_swimmers_itch

Again...it is very common and can happen anywhere in warm climate. Mine just happened to happen in Disney.....just my luck...lol.

This is also the reason I will not swim in fresh water lakes or ponds.

 

[unkadug]

Here you go.......

http://wild-birds.suite101.com/article.cfm/what_is_swimmers_itch

Again...it is very common and can happen anywhere in warm climate. Mine just happened to happen in Disney.....just my luck...lol.

This is also the reason I will not swim in fresh water lakes or ponds.

That's what I thought you might be talking about.

The interesting thing about this is, you were first exposed to the parasite before you got to Disney. It's only after the second exposure that you break out in the rash.

 

[splashtest]

I was in Disney 8 days that trip. I was exposed to that water numerous times as we rented boats more than once. I don't blame Disney one bit, as they have no control over the wild life. Anyone who swims in any fresh body of water has the chance of the same thing happening to them. It was just my turn...no worries. People should just be aware that just because this is Disney does not mean nothing like this can't happen. The water in part of that lake has been around since the beginning of time. This is a former wetlands area. There around thousands of birds that call the area their home. During this time I was much younger and went though the I don't want to swim and take away from getting a tan time. If I would have just swam a bit more this trip it would be a moot point :lol: Oh well...live and learn.

 

[Pluto_is_my_fav]

Whenever I see anyone even remotely near that water I cringe. There are signs all over the place to stay out, but people still allow there kids in...I just don't get it!!!

I guess that's what I'm thinking as being a value add. How great would it be if you could wade in the water by the beach at the Polynesian? Or go waterskiing or banana boating? Or have something like the old waterskii show?

Maybe it is just too expensive or impractical a venture. I assume they would have to build something to prevent whatever chemicals would be necessary from seeping where they don't belong, and use other means to keep the wildlife regulated. But, I mean, they've built an entire safari at Animal Kingdom, so if the cost-benefit worked out, I would guess they could find a way.

The point in my first post on this is just that I'm surprised there has not even been talk about doing this; rather, the attractions and recreation that depended on the health of the lake (such as River Country, wading in the water by the resort beaches, and waterskiing) have just been abandoned.

Question, though: Why does Sammy Duval watersports still advertise waterskiing if the lake is so (naturally) polluted? I would have tried to schedule a session next month if I had not read this discussion board.

 

[unkadug]

It was explained to me that most of these parasites live in shallow water. All the water skiing and para sailing takes place out in the deep water.

 

[bugsbunny]

Let me put it another way, then. It seems Disney can do almost anything. Why can't it get imagineers, biologists, and whoever else is needed to make Bay Lake swimmable? Still seems to me like it would be a huge value add.

The amoeba that was mentioned several times is VERY hardy and although very susceptible to chlorine, you would need HUGE quantities to clean up that water as well as have every environmental nut job showing up to protest. Also, that amoeba isn't exactly like the Borg where simply encountering it means certain death. You actually have to "inhale" the water and get it up into the top of your sinus cavity to give them a chance to latch on and crawl up to your brain. So just swimming through it would not cause an infection.

The other problem with swimming in ANY water that is NOT crystal clear is that safety personnel can't monitor the situation. I don't know the exact statistics, but I have no doubt that more than half of drowning victims are discovered when scene at the bottom! Can't exactly see them in you are Bay Lake. And we know that the 2nd most important thing to Disney (1st being your wallet) would be your safety!

And I distinctly remember from the various history books and shows that Bay Lake is not man made. Discovery Island was owned by a Dr who used it as a hunting destination (I'm assuming duck hunting but it didn't say). And Bay Lake was completely drained and had 14 feet of muck that was dredged out. They used that to raise the land for MK and found the white sand that was removed and used for the beaches of the MK hotels. There is a great 10 seconds or so in Modern Marvels where they show Bay Lake completely drained and being dredged as well as a fly by shot of the empty Bay Lake in front of MK right at the boat docks and break water. Pretty cool.

 

[WDW1974]

As someone else already pointed out, the reason there is no swimming is because of the presence of Naegleria fowleri, an amoeba (aka "the brain-eating amoeba",) that causes primary amoebic meningoencephalitis.


(Sorry for using wiki as a source, but in this case their information seems relevant.)

Are you talking about swimming in Bay Lake and Seven Seas Lagoon? Or River Country?

RC never had any issue with said amoeba at all. It is urban/Internet/CM/fanboi myth.

And it was never mentioned as a reason for the ban on swimming in BL and SSL, either. It's safe to say the little fellas probably exist in those bodies, but generally exist on the bottom of natural bodies in decaying vegitation. In order for someone to die from this (and it basically is fatal very rarely and usually in young kids and elderly) they would have to go to the bottom of some body, stir them up, breathe them in their nose and not have the resistance to fight them off.

Now, as a kid I swam in both BL and SSL. Not sure I'd be brave enough now and amoeba has nothing to do with it.

A few years ago, I was walking in the water at the Poly (maybe two-three feet off-shore) just above my ankles ... kids were playing/swimming around even though it is prohibited ... all of a sudden I saw a snake slither by and I ran out like a little girl (or fanboi). Don't like them snakes.

 

[WDW1974]

:shrug:
Brackish water is water that has more salinity than fresh water, but not as much as seawater. It may result from mixing of seawater with fresh water, as in estuaries, or it may occur in brackish fossil aquifers. The word comes from the Middle Dutch root "brak," meaning "salten" or "salty". Certain human activities can produce brackish water, in particular certain civil engineering projects such as dikes and the flooding of coastal marshland to produce brackish water pools for freshwater prawn farming. Brackish water is also the primary waste product of the salinity gradient power process. Because brackish water is hostile to the growth of most terrestrial plant species, without appropriate management it is damaging to the environment (see article on shrimp farms).
Technically, brackish water contains between 0.5 and 30 grams of salt per litre—more often expressed as 0.5 to 30 parts per thousand (ppt or ‰). Thus, brackish covers a range of salinity regimes and is not considered a precisely defined condition. It is characteristic of many brackish surface waters that their salinity can vary considerably over space and/or time.

While I appreciate the H2O science lesson, I'm not sure the point.

Are you saying I was incorrect in applying the term to the color of the water in Bay Lake? I wasn't talking about salinity, but color. Although I'd guess that Disney's civil engineering at WDW in the 1960s (all those man-made canals) may have played a role in the color of said water.

But again, my point wasn't about the color as I've been visiting since 1974 and don't recall any real difference in the color since then.

 

[WDW1974]

Heh, heh, heh. Well done. I get tired of correcting 74's errors so I let this go but you did a great job.

Bulge showing again? I'm not sure you've ever corrected an error of mine, JT ... maybe one day you will. It may give your little life some significance.

As for others mentioning BL parasites and pollution in BL, neither is a real issues. Disney is just erring on the side of caution. Personally, I wouldn't swim in a Florida lake in the summer. Now folks from other regions don't understand Florida lakes. If it doesn't look like Wakiva springs or the like they assume it's polluted. I'd bet money BL is spring fed but not enough volume to flush the tanin, which is 100% natural by the way. But it would be enough to flush what minor (emphasis on minor) pollution that the recreational watercraft and runoff from area resorts creates. Unfortunately we live in an age when emotions trump reason and folks have surrendered their intellectual capabilities and just plain common sense for the security blanket of group think. It's embarassing.

Disney eliminated swimming simply to not have to deal with the potential dangers and the ensuing litigation. It was the easy way out, although I'm not saying it was neccessarily the wrong way considering how many folks and their kids can't even be trusted to not use swimming pools as toilets.

PS- if someone says something to the effect of not being sure if Bay Lake is "cement lined" or that it is "brackish" :lol:, it really calls into question everything they say. These aren't just "misspeaks".

*end of rant-o-the-day* :wave:

Hey, buddy, I've never said BL is cement-lined or anything of the sort. Considering it's a natural body of water and all. ... And if I misused brackish, shoot me. Seriously, you accuse others of focusing on small things and yet this is what you jump on?

 

[Exprcoofto]

Are you talking about swimming in Bay Lake and Seven Seas Lagoon? Or River Country?

RC never had any issue with said amoeba at all. It is urban/Internet/CM/fanboi myth.

And it was never mentioned as a reason for the ban on swimming in BL and SSL, either. It's safe to say the little fellas probably exist in those bodies, but generally exist on the bottom of natural bodies in decaying vegitation. In order for someone to die from this (and it basically is fatal very rarely and usually in young kids and elderly) they would have to go to the bottom of some body, stir them up, breathe them in their nose and not have the resistance to fight them off.

Now, as a kid I swam in both BL and SSL. Not sure I'd be brave enough now and amoeba has nothing to do with it.

A few years ago, I was walking in the water at the Poly (maybe two-three feet off-shore) just above my ankles ... kids were playing/swimming around even though it is prohibited ... all of a sudden I saw a snake slither by and I ran out like a little girl (or fanboi). Don't like them snakes.

:lol::ROFLOL:

 

[unkadug]

Are you talking about swimming in Bay Lake and Seven Seas Lagoon? Or River Country?

RC never had any issue with said amoeba at all. It is urban/Internet/CM/fanboi myth.

And it was never mentioned as a reason for the ban on swimming in BL and SSL, either. It's safe to say the little fellas probably exist in those bodies, but generally exist on the bottom of natural bodies in decaying vegitation. In order for someone to die from this (and it basically is fatal very rarely and usually in young kids and elderly) they would have to go to the bottom of some body, stir them up, breathe them in their nose and not have the resistance to fight them off.

Now, as a kid I swam in both BL and SSL. Not sure I'd be brave enough now and amoeba has nothing to do with it.

A few years ago, I was walking in the water at the Poly (maybe two-three feet off-shore) just above my ankles ... kids were playing/swimming around even though it is prohibited ... all of a sudden I saw a snake slither by and I ran out like a little girl (or fanboi). Don't like them snakes.

Well it would be hard to go swimming at River Country, since it's long been closed.

And I thought you kept up these things.

 

[WDW1974]

Well it would be hard to go swimming at River Country, since it's long been closed.

And I thought you kept up these things.

I was speaking about folks using the parasite as 'the reason' RC was closed and wasn't sure if that was what you meant.

And I don't keep up on anything ... make it up as I go along ... that should be obvious!

 

[unkadug]

I was speaking about folks using the parasite as 'the reason' RC was closed and wasn't sure if that was what you meant.

And I don't keep up on anything ... make it up as I go along ... that should be obvious!

:lol: :wave:

 

[bugsbunny]

It gets its dark color from the decaying vegetation and cedar/cyprus trees that line around it. Here in NJ, cedar water is a common term and is basically everywhere you want to fish, hunt, or canoe. I've been d__________g hunting in that stuff only 3 feet deep and you can't see into it at all. And sometimes while standing still, you feel stuff brush up against your waders. It's pretty creepy.

To quote ".....breathe them in their nose and not have the resistance to fight them off." Uh...there is basically NO resistance in humans to it. Its basically fatal in any healthy human being and even if treated with drugs, its VERY limited success.

The problem with RC was that it had a rubber like shield that went between it and Bay Lake. Water moved in and out between the two quite easily, so even though you weren't swimming in the lake, it was close enough to have the same danger.

Once they built the 2 water parks, there was no reason at all to have a small hard to get to water park within a campground resort. Given the inherent dangers and limited revenue stream that was now being diverted to 2 new water parks, it was a no brainer for WDW to close it.

 

[WDW1974]

It gets its dark color from the decaying vegetation and cedar/cyprus trees that line around it. Here in NJ, cedar water is a common term and is basically everywhere you want to fish, hunt, or canoe. I've been d__________g hunting in that stuff only 3 feet deep and you can't see into it at all. And sometimes while standing still, you feel stuff brush up against your waders. It's pretty creepy.

Yep. And that is why I used the term 'brackish', which apparently may not apply here.:hammer:

To quote ".....breathe them in their nose and not have the resistance to fight them off." Uh...there is basically NO resistance in humans to it. Its basically fatal in any healthy human being and even if treated with drugs, its VERY limited success.

I don't know. I may be an expert on Disney and online parasites, but can't claim the same knowledge on amoebas.

In the deaths I've heard of in FLA (and they are very, very, very few) most of them have involved kids. And usually kids that were swimming at the bottom of a lake/canal with stagnant water in summer.

The problem with RC was that it had a rubber like shield that went between it and Bay Lake. Water moved in and out between the two quite easily, so even though you weren't swimming in the lake, it was close enough to have the same danger.

Never, ever, ever heard of any 'dangers' at RC. None. I was told specifically the fact the RC water was filtered and there was no growth (and ensuing decay) of organic materials kept it from ever being an issue.

And common sense says that had to be the case. The park was open from 1976-2001 and not one reported incident.

There's danger inherent in simply living. This wasn't a safety issue at all or the park would have been closed. It stayed open for a quarter of a century and then closed for financial reasons.

Once they built the 2 water parks, there was no reason at all to have a small hard to get to water park within a campground resort. Given the inherent dangers and limited revenue stream that was now being diverted to 2 new water parks, it was a no brainer for WDW to close it.

I would call it a no brainer in that they had no brains for closing it. There are inherent dangers in operating water parks where guests of all swimming abilities and health conditions will visit. WDW regularly has situations where they have two water parks closed to capacity. When RC existed they never had to turn away water park guests. It also provided a very unique park ... but I've said this ad nauseum in countless threads.

It's gone. And it's certainly a much bigger health risk now than it ever was when open. From the dangers of kids sneaking in and drowning or being injured. To it becoming a breeding ground for bugs ... it just needs to be removed and repurposed.

My guess is this is the first step to removing the park.

 

[splashtest]

I was speaking about folks using the parasite as 'the reason' RC was closed and wasn't sure if that was what you meant.

And I don't keep up on anything ... make it up as I go along ... that should be obvious!

RC closed when BB opened. RC was old and outdated, especially the pool. The need for a 3rd small waterpark just wasn't needed. There was talk about making RC exclusive to those staying at the campground. But nothing ever came of it. That was most likely due to the fact that it was left unattended for too long and was too costly to then repair. It is a shame because that was our favorite part of Disney growing up. I feel sad knowing kids now will never get to experience the old fashioned water hole experience. Even though RC was connected to BL, containing the water there and treating it wouldn't have been all that difficult, just too costly. Treating BL and SSL at this stage of the game would be too costly and way too involved.

 

[WDW1974]

Actually, BB opened in 1995 and RC closed in 2001. So one had nothing to do with the other.

The only talk about it becoming part of FW was online and years after it closed. I never heard anyone at Disney mention it seriously.

And you could never 'treat' BL and SSL .

 

[TalkingHead]

Yep. And that is why I used the term 'brackish', which apparently may not apply here.:hammer:

I think "brackish" usually refers to a saltwater-freshwater mix (water with a little salinity). Many lakes in central Florida have tannic water from the tannins from the trees and vegetation around the edges. Dunno if that's the case with Bay Lake.

 

[Yensid40]

I don't think there is such a thing as "boat gas" My guess is the ferries use diesel and the other craft probably run on a premium gasoline no different than what you use in your car, and no more polluting. Compared to a lake surrounded by developement and city runoff, I think Bay Lake is much closer to pristine that polluted.

Bay lake and the surrounding canals have a pretty good bass population......which is a pretty good indicator of good water quality.

Larger boats like the Ferries usually use a type of Bunker Fuel which is pretty much Diesel but can be classes in 6 different varieties. The difference chemically is the size of the molecule chain, which has an effect on how the fuel is burned...

Long story short diesel with a mix of regular gasoline and some oil.

At least that is how larger ships like that operate. I can't speak 100% to the Disney what were they... Fairies?