Reservation expansion

Fido Chuckwagon

Well-Known Member
The current AP terms are:

Admission to one or more Walt Disney World Resort theme parks during the year with an advance reservation¹

What term are they violating here? Asking honestly.
That they are not allowing the guest in when the park is open. To read this otherwise would lead to a ludicrous outcome. “Oh, yeah, you can be admitted to magic kingdom any day you want, 5 minutes before closing. We’re honoring the contract!”
 

Disney Glimpses

Well-Known Member
That they are not allowing the guest in when the park is open. To read this otherwise would lead to a ludicrous outcome. “Oh, yeah, you can be admitted to magic kingdom any day you want, 5 minutes before closing. We’re honoring the contract!”
If their legal team feels that this is materially changing the terms, they will offer refunds in advance; as they did after COVID-19. As long as they do this, there is no lawsuit. Services change all the time.
 

Disney Glimpses

Well-Known Member
In all honesty they probably wouldn't mind going that route. They probably want less AP holders anyway
I agree. I'm not even sure they will need to though. The current AP terms allow for a solid amount of flexibility:

At this time, a park reservation is not required after the first park, however, reservation requirements are subject to change. The ability to visit another park will be subject to the park’s capacity limitations and applicable pass blockout dates and hours are subject to change. Other restrictions, such as Park Hopper® rules, may apply.
 

Fido Chuckwagon

Well-Known Member
If their legal team feels that this is materially changing the terms, they will offer refunds in advance; as they did after COVID-19. As long as they do this, there is no lawsuit. Services change all the time.
No, there’re are a few material differences. With Covid they were no longer able to offer the service, so they offered refunds. Here, they are still able to offer the same service, and in fact are, to a different group of people so they can make more money. They can’t unilaterally breach a contract with one group to try to earn more money off a different group, consumer protection laws don’t work like that. They are absolutely going to get sued again, especially if they try this in California which has more consumer friendly regulations.
 

Disney Glimpses

Well-Known Member
No, there’re are a few material differences. With Covid they were no longer able to offer the service, so they offered refunds. Here, they are still able to offer the same service, and in fact are, to a different group of people so they can make more money. They can’t unilaterally breach a contract with one group to try to earn more money off a different group, consumer protection laws don’t work like that. They are absolutely going to get sued again, especially if they try this in California which has more consumer friendly regulations.
What do you mean? They offered refunds not because of the closures but because of Park Pass. They could've easily honored the original terms of the AP post-COVID. They chose not to. Besides, there is a ton of leeway in the current terms of the AP program that you agreed to:


For example:

Some Pass benefits and features may not be available during periods of limited capacity. Also, park experiences and offerings may be modified and are subject to limited availability or even closure.

In reality, as long as they refund APs, no one is going to even consider a lawsuit. It would be fruitless. This is a theme park membership, not an insurance contract. As I said, services change all the time and you get your money back. It's pretty straight forward.
 
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Disney Glimpses

Well-Known Member
Considering they already have one AP lawsuit, Id have to think that Disney would do the due diligence to avoid a repeat. And if they can’t, I could see them just sunsetting the AP program.
There are yet another round of changes coming to the program. No clue what they landed on. It is possible they ride it out and grandfather people in to how things currently work but it would pretty messy to do so.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Considering they already have one AP lawsuit, Id have to think that Disney would do the due diligence to avoid a repeat. And if they can’t, I could see them just sunsetting the AP program.
Honestly when they originally paused the pass after Covid I thought they were going to do that or price people out. They did neither and have problems now.
 

Fido Chuckwagon

Well-Known Member
What do you mean? They offered refunds not because of the closures but because of Park Pass. They could've easily honored the original terms of the AP post-COVID. They chose not to. Besides, there is a ton of leeway in the current terms of the AP program that you agreed to:


For example:

Some Pass benefits and features may not be available during periods of limited capacity. Also, park experiences and offerings may be modified and are subject to limited availability or even closure.

In reality, as long as they refund APs, no one is going to even consider a lawsuit. It would be fruitless. This is a theme park membership, not an insurance contract. As I said, services change all the time and you get your money back. It's pretty straight forward.
When the parks closed due to covid they offered refunds to everyone. The parks closing due to Covid was beyond their control and it happened to everyone, not just the “low profit” AP holders. When they reopened they had to develop the park pass system, for everyone, because of Covid. They didn’t start selling AP’s again until after the park pass system. The two situations are not at all analogous. They’re going to get sued for this for the same reason they would get sued if they told somebody holding a 10 day ticket halfway through their trip that they needed to cough up more money to go to the parks the last 5 days, or they can have a pro-rated refund. They’re breaching the contract.
 

Disney Glimpses

Well-Known Member
When the parks closed due to covid they offered refunds to everyone. The parks closing due to Covid was beyond their control and it happened to everyone, not just the “low profit” AP holders. When they reopened they had to develop the park pass system, for everyone, because of Covid. They didn’t start selling AP’s again until after the park pass system. The two situations are not at all analogous. They’re going to get sued for this for the same reason they would get sued if they told somebody holding a 10 day ticket halfway through their trip that they needed to cough up more money to go to the parks the last 5 days, or they can have a pro-rated refund. They’re breaching the contract.
I am unsure of what "contract" you are referring to. The terms and conditions of the program offer Disney significant flexibility and again, no one is going to push a lawsuit forward on the premise that a guest can't visit the Magic Kingdom the way they like when they were offered a full refund for an unused portion of their ticket.

When we all purchased our APs we all agreed that "reservation requirements are subject to change." Well, this is them changing. I'm not even sure they'd have to offer refunds.

The Magic Key lawsuit is specific to the wording of the terms and it's still pending.
 
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Fido Chuckwagon

Well-Known Member
I am unsure of what "contract" you are referring to. The terms and conditions of the program offer Disney significant flexibility and again, no one is going to push a lawsuit forward on the premise that a guest can't visit the Magic Kingdom the way they like when they were offered a full refund for an unused portion of their ticket.

When we all purchased our APs we all agreed that "reservation requirements are subject to change." Well, this is them changing. I'm not even sure they'd have to offer refunds.

The Magic Key lawsuit is specific to the wording of the terms and it's still pending.
No point in continuing to argue about it, we’ll see what happens if they do this.
 

Disney Glimpses

Well-Known Member
No point in continuing to argue about it, we’ll see what happens if they do this.
I understand your frustration but there simply isn't precedence for this and there are no carve outs in the law for a consumer level subscription product like this (like there would be for an insurance contract). No one in California was offered a refund, that's the issue. Had they done that, there would be no lawsuit.
 

aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
I think the question is whether these 12:00 and 5:00 offerings are in addition to the current reservation options for APs, or instead of them. If they are adding to the reservations APs can make, there’s no basis for a lawsuit from APs.
agree, if they are adding its fine, but if they start saying we cant come into epcot till after 2 or cant go here till after or before such and such time thats going to be a problem, this is all getting ridiculous and overly complicated. Disney better be careful, people are not happy with them anymore as it is. We have already bought sea world passes which are a slice of heaven compared to Disney turning everything into a legalistic down to the minute restricted mess. Really getting beyond irked, even more so now after reading chapekputin has been granted a 20 million dollar yearly bonus.
 

Kittlesona

Active Member
I think the question is whether these 12:00 and 5:00 offerings are in addition to the current reservation options for APs, or instead of them. If they are adding to the reservations APs can make, there’s no basis for a lawsuit from APs.
I think this is how I’m looking at it: (PLEASE NOTE that all numbers are completely made up for ease of conversation and should not be viewed any way other than that)

Currently there are 100 AP reservations each day that start at park opening BUT only 25 APs actually come at park opening. Another 30 come in at lunch time and the last 45 come in around dinner time.

This change to the AP reservation system should allow them to have 50 AP reservations that start at park opening (giving an extra 50 to the resort guest pool), 60 afternoon reservations, and 100 evening reservations because remember @disneyglimpses has said that the reservation crush is in the morning with unfilled capacity in the afternoon/evenings.

By asking APs to select when they actually plan to arrive (since APs and all CMs function differently than resort guests), they can actually add MORE capacity while still allowing everyone to come at the time they’re already showing up anyway. With my (admittedly made up) numbers above MORE APs get into the park this way where under the current system they just would be blocked from entering. I don’t see how there could possible be a lawsuit over that.
 

SingleRider

Premium Member
I wonder how they will keep APs from choosing the earlier time slots - maybe they won't cover all day? For example if you book a park open reservation but don't show up until 6pm, you're not allowed in?
 

Hawg G

Well-Known Member
There are further logistical pieces here that I am admittedly unaware of. That being said, all things point to this being a good change. They are definitely actively working towards removing the 2pm hopping restriction, which is possibly the biggest complaints re: Park Pass among guests.

The gist of this is that there is unused capacity in the afternoons and evenings and this works to address that (in benefit to the guest as well).
But as of now, you can always hop to MK or HS. With this in place, those parks could be unhoppable to a few weeks out, and definitely day of.
 

Disney Glimpses

Well-Known Member
I wonder how they will keep APs from choosing the earlier time slots - maybe they won't cover all day? For example if you book a park open reservation but don't show up until 6pm, you're not allowed in?
My guess is they will be similar to bonus reservations and added close to (or even on) the date rather than far in advance.

But as of now, you can always hop to MK or HS. With this in place, those parks could be unhoppable to a few weeks out, and definitely day of.
I suspect Afternoon Entry reservations may not have hopping privileges, but that's also just my guess.
 

crazy4disney

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
It is an entry reservation. It's exactly the same as the current model except with more reservations being available for different top slots throughout the day.
sure glad they listened & got rid of all that FP planning bc its whats guests dislike
There are further logistical pieces here that I am admittedly unaware of. That being said, all things point to this being a good change. They are definitely actively working towards removing the 2pm hopping restriction, which is possibly the biggest complaints re: Park Pass among guests.

The gist of this is that there is unused capacity in the afternoons and evenings and this works to address that (in benefit to the guest as well).
how does this help “unused capacity” and if it does wouldnt that only make parks more crowded that wouldnt be if this steers someone to a different park? Im genuinely confused here
 

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