Captain Barbossa
Well-Known Member
Thank you!!not everything needs to be based on a movie
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Replacement for Tomorrowland Speedway?
- Thread starter Phroobar
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KrzyKtty
Well-Known Member
Because that will skyrocket the price of everything at WDW, even more so than now. Economics will see to that. Then they will be seen as being even more greedy than what you talk about above.
@DisneyBryan
Member
Hey @marni1971 wasnt there once talks of the Tron Lightcycles taking over the former PeopleMover and zooming around the (modified) track above everyones heads???
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
You're missing the point. If an attraction is GOOD, the IP (or total lack thereof) is unimportant.
@DisneyBryan
Member
Also @marni1971, wasnt it also floated as a re-skin for rockin' roller coaster?
DDLand
Well-Known Member
This is precisely the point. They've already built a substantial addition that has drawn attendance to record highs. This park is more crowded than ever before. Demand is more evenly spread throughout the year. They're charging more for entrance than ever before.
Every Orlando vacation already has a day at Magic Kingdom. Maybe two. Magic Kingdom is Orlando.
People won't spend everyday at Magic Kingdom, but they will spend at least some time there. This is the new normal.
You can argue that Disney simply can't outbuild the new masses, but I find that doubtful. You're correct something like Star Wars Land would certainly bump attendance dramatically, but an IP that has a small following coupled with a high capacity attraction (doesn't have to be Lightycles) launched alongside several other improvements to existing attractions should be able to more than offset crowds.
Magic Kingdom is an unstoppable juggernaut and needs more capacity.
As an aside, I remain unconvinced New Fantasyland is entirely the source of growth. This may be a classic causation vs. correlation thing.
From 2002 to 2007 Magic Kingdom attendance apparently grew some 3.1 million guests. In comparison Epcot increased by 2.6 million. Animal Kingdom 2.2 Million. DHS 1.5 Million. While you may point out these numbers have a closer parity, it's worth noting that the next best performer launched 2 new E Tickets in the time frame and Animal Kingdom launched a prominent E Ticket too.
While Magic Kingdom did nothing it outgrew the next Parks by hundreds of thousands of guests. Interestingly the other park that followed this same strategy of no major expansion, grew less than half as much as Magic Kingdom in the timeframe.
While it's clear New Fantasyland boosted attendance and may have even stolen guests from other parks, it's also clear that Magic Kingdom was continuing a winning streak that stretched back to the early 2000s. If I were a betting man, I'd be willing to guess that Magic Kingdom still would have been the best performer by a wide margin.
Frankly had they not done the expansion we'd be in the same mess, maybe even worse without the additional capacity of the area. The other parks can take some of the heat off Magic Kingdom, but barring a Park 5, I don't see it touching 15 million again.
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Prices go up even if nothing is done. They need more capacity beyond Avatar/SW/TS. They need high capacity rides. Right now there are less rides in four theme parks combined than there are at two parks at Disneyland. Both sides of the country need additional capacity and to start letting in less people. Otherwise no matter how much capacity they have it will never be enough.
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
Wanna bet? People are doing exactly that, especially families with younger children and/or those visiting or only a few nights. Even if they're not doing JUST Magic Kingdom, they're skipping one or more of the other three parks and the one that gets skipped is never MK.
Never heard of the Orlando WEDWay having that. WDW TRON circa 2008-9 could have gone in the lot behind Buzz.
The PM track in Anaheim has a proposal for a Kuka arm addition for Tomorrowland 2055 early on when it has a budget.
KrzyKtty
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with more capacity rides. I just disagreed with the notion that the answer was to start letting less people in. I think that would only create more problems. Because the amount of people wanting to get the privilege of being the select few let in, would cause the price of a ticket to skyrocket like never before. Those 5k they cut out will still want to get in, so those with more money will gouge the prices in order to get a ticket.
cjkeating
Well-Known Member
I kind of hope it is not the Tron E-Ticket simply because I wouldn't have a clue what rides WDI have in their catalogue that would be suitable...?
In addition, Happy Ever After is going to make things a lot worse when the only really good way to see the fireworks is from the Hub. The Hub already is packed to capacity quite often. If you expand MK, you bring in more people... people who can't fit in the hub, or along the route of the one showing of the daily parade.
As pointed out right above you need to increase capacity at the choke points... the parts of the infrastructure that can't handle increased capacity. Additional pads at TL and FL will allow more people on the rides, but it won't allow more people to get past Rapunzel's restrooms, or fit into the Hub for HEA, or keep the tapstiles from being swamped on the way in. If you put in more ride capacity and that makes MK more attractive and the queues shorter, more people will show up for that, and then swamp the other choke points.
If you want to add to the MK, you have to add more restrooms, more bypass routes, a second night time show far from the Hub so that people have to chose between one or the other (like SW v. F!), OR, you learn how to re-set you fireworks show for two showings a night (like they did eventually with BAM and SW at DHS).
Or, you make the other parks more attractive to the point they're reaching the capacity of their choke points.
They let in 5k more people the quality of the show decreases. The amount of money each person pays still goes up every few month whether they let in 50K or 55K. But I guess TDO really don't care about show quality or they would have fix that Yeti and all of DHS years ago. Prices always go up as show quality goes down. I see nothing wrong with increasing the price and reducing occupancy. What good is it to keep prices low but allow lines to be so long you can't ride a satisfactory number of rides even with FP+?
EPCOTCenterLover
Well-Known Member
"The PM track in Anaheim has a proposal for a Kuka arm addition for Tomorrowland 2055 early on when it has a budget."
You're talking past tense and not currently, right?
You're talking past tense and not currently, right?
KrzyKtty
Well-Known Member
I just don't believe that prices will simply go "up." You reduce occupancy by a large amount, and start turning away people at the gate in large numbers, you are talking about skyrocketing ticket prices to the point that only the well off could even think of affording them. It would create that sort of economic supply and demand shift. And by well off, I don't mean decently ok middle class.
flyerjab
Well-Known Member
Is that aside from any changes supposedly happening to the Stitch replacement? I have a hard time visualizing how much space that Stitch attraction takes up.
cheezbat
Well-Known Member
I would enjoy seeing some kind of Tron attraction added to WDW.
So...after spending awhile this morning reading this entire thread, I have to point out that when Eisner was in charge, he more or less built this 'MK is for families and kids and can't have thrill rides in it' mentality. This was NOT what MK was supposed to be. People tend to forget that Walt Disney himself had WED build the Matterhorn...the first tubular steel Coaster thrill ride in Disneyland....Space Mountain was supposed THE Thrilling ride when it debuted in 1975 for Magic Kingdom. Disneyland Paris built Space Mountain with inversions. Disneyland got Star Tours and Indy...both rides with height restrictions. Shanghai has added Tron. Thrills CAN and should be in the castle parks.
Alien Encounter being Deemed too scary really seemed to be the tone setter for the new 'Normal' thought process as to MK being an all ages everyone can do park. Parents complained, the attraction closed, and every more thrilling concept for MK got shot down.
Here we are well over a decade later and so many people think this is how it's supposed to be. How many of your were WDW visitors before 2000? Before 1990? Before 1980? The Disney I first visited in the mid 1980's is not the Disney of today. The guests aren't the same either.
Should a big E-ticket thrill ride be added to MK? Yes. But so should more all ages people eating attractions as well.
So...those of you worried about MK being too packed and the other parks being underutilized...this is true. What are the key problems with the other three parks?
#1.Not enough to do. The parks need much more to divert people away from the Magic Kingdom. What many people want are rides. Each of the other parks need a good 10-12 more rides that are memorable and fun.
#2. Not enough all ages attractions. Thanks to the MK getting coined as the 'kiddie park', Studios and Animal Kingdom appear to be the more 'thrilling parks' and Epcot is for the older crowd. Why? Why don't the other three parks have more family rides and lower height restrictions? If all you add are Towers of Terror and Expedition Everests, you're going to deter families with smaller kids from wanting to spend more time at the other parks. If the other parks appear to offer as much for the whole family as MK, things will change.
#3. The other three parks are not MK. All of Disney's advertising when showing the theme parks really focuses on the castle parks. While the castle parks seem to be the anchor for all of the resorts around the world, here at WDW it's done damage...it appears as if the other three parks are 'lesser'...MK is priority number one and after visiting it THEN go check out our other Parks. Why isn't the Tree of Life or Everest ever a main staple on a commercial? Or Tower of Terror? Or Spaceship Earth? Or World Showcase? It's just not how they market the parks and that's a problem. Almost every WDW vacation commercial I see shows the characters greeting people, shows families riding rides(normally most are MK related) and finishes with a shot of Cinderella Castle and fireworks. So as a visitor looking to book a vacation, seeing this commercial tells me my vacation must include MK.
So after my long rant, should Tron be added to MK? Sure why not. As a big E-ticket Coaster? Maybe...but if there's a better concept why not try that instead? Should the speedway get demoed? Idk...but it definitely needs to at LEAST be brought into the 21st century.
So...after spending awhile this morning reading this entire thread, I have to point out that when Eisner was in charge, he more or less built this 'MK is for families and kids and can't have thrill rides in it' mentality. This was NOT what MK was supposed to be. People tend to forget that Walt Disney himself had WED build the Matterhorn...the first tubular steel Coaster thrill ride in Disneyland....Space Mountain was supposed THE Thrilling ride when it debuted in 1975 for Magic Kingdom. Disneyland Paris built Space Mountain with inversions. Disneyland got Star Tours and Indy...both rides with height restrictions. Shanghai has added Tron. Thrills CAN and should be in the castle parks.
Alien Encounter being Deemed too scary really seemed to be the tone setter for the new 'Normal' thought process as to MK being an all ages everyone can do park. Parents complained, the attraction closed, and every more thrilling concept for MK got shot down.
Here we are well over a decade later and so many people think this is how it's supposed to be. How many of your were WDW visitors before 2000? Before 1990? Before 1980? The Disney I first visited in the mid 1980's is not the Disney of today. The guests aren't the same either.
Should a big E-ticket thrill ride be added to MK? Yes. But so should more all ages people eating attractions as well.
So...those of you worried about MK being too packed and the other parks being underutilized...this is true. What are the key problems with the other three parks?
#1.Not enough to do. The parks need much more to divert people away from the Magic Kingdom. What many people want are rides. Each of the other parks need a good 10-12 more rides that are memorable and fun.
#2. Not enough all ages attractions. Thanks to the MK getting coined as the 'kiddie park', Studios and Animal Kingdom appear to be the more 'thrilling parks' and Epcot is for the older crowd. Why? Why don't the other three parks have more family rides and lower height restrictions? If all you add are Towers of Terror and Expedition Everests, you're going to deter families with smaller kids from wanting to spend more time at the other parks. If the other parks appear to offer as much for the whole family as MK, things will change.
#3. The other three parks are not MK. All of Disney's advertising when showing the theme parks really focuses on the castle parks. While the castle parks seem to be the anchor for all of the resorts around the world, here at WDW it's done damage...it appears as if the other three parks are 'lesser'...MK is priority number one and after visiting it THEN go check out our other Parks. Why isn't the Tree of Life or Everest ever a main staple on a commercial? Or Tower of Terror? Or Spaceship Earth? Or World Showcase? It's just not how they market the parks and that's a problem. Almost every WDW vacation commercial I see shows the characters greeting people, shows families riding rides(normally most are MK related) and finishes with a shot of Cinderella Castle and fireworks. So as a visitor looking to book a vacation, seeing this commercial tells me my vacation must include MK.
So after my long rant, should Tron be added to MK? Sure why not. As a big E-ticket Coaster? Maybe...but if there's a better concept why not try that instead? Should the speedway get demoed? Idk...but it definitely needs to at LEAST be brought into the 21st century.
Aside yes.
The Stitch attraction (moon complex) is quite an intergrated building with the Peoplemover, itself, Cosmic Rays and the basement level. To do anything drastic with it would probably be more hassle and cost than it's worth.
flyerjab
Well-Known Member
The Stitch going away for a WiR ride was some of the initial talk of changes coming that ultimately has ended up with TL getting a significant refurb, including a likely (not definite) addition of an E-Ticket. Has the Stitch rumor from early on died off somewhat, or has it morphed into something other than that first rumor? Honestly, between DHS, Epcot and MK I am starting to lose track of everything anymore.
I would imagine with you being "in the know" with a lot of this your mind must be reeling, knowing how things might look 5 years from now.
KrzyKtty
Well-Known Member
I think I followed most of that, but stupid me has to ask. what is WiR?
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