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Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
No. Neither Mary Poppins returns or muppets most wanted “bombed” at the box office. They both made profits, just less than projected.

Muppets from Space (which is the only recent muppet movie not distributed by Disney) bombed. Meaning it lost money.


Uh huh.


To wit:

Muppets Most Wanted was tracking for an opening north of $25 million and it bowed against Divergent and God’s Not Dead. It would be competing for auds with family fare Mr. Peabody & Sherman (in its third frame) and The Lego Movie (still going strong in week seven). The sequel came in way below expectations with $17,005,126 — placing #2 for the weekend led by Divergent. Even after after modest weekly declines, Muppets Most Wanted closed with a disappointing $51,183,113.


The Muppet sequel only coughed up $29.2 million from an overseas rollout, with $12.6 million coming from the UK as the highest gross. It premiered on TV in France and Italy. These numbers were poor enough to derail what could have been more theatrical Muppet features. Disney launched a Muppet TV series in 2015 and canceled it after one season. After theaters take their percentage of the global gross, the mouse house would see returned about $44.1M — which would not even cover half of the P&A expenses.


And also: Box Office: Divergent Opens Strong; Muppets Flops https://www.tvguide.com/news/box-office-divergent-muppets-most-wanted-gods-not-dead-1079596/

PLUS: https://time.com/34783/divergent-is-no-twilight-but-starts-strong-while-muppets-are-not-wanted/

Need more?
 

Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
No theme park target audience is a 50+ year old man. It's families with kids - I'm not breaking news, I think some here need a reminder. In the 80s EPCOT Center targeted families with attractions, tech, and themes relevant to the times. In the 2020's EPCOT will target families with attractions, tech, and themes relevant to the times. EPCOT will always be a unique place with educational elements presented in (again) relevant terms to the times. Even the cultural entertainment gets refreshed (that reminds me, British Revolution really needs to get new set lists).

Actually, by Disney's own admission - the goal is to not make it relevant to the times per se. They want it timeless (i.e. not needing to be updated). My opinion is clear, but the notion this new version is in the same vein as the original goals of the park would be a suspicious statement. Whether the new direction is good or bad is in the eye of the beholder (and they are no doubt using updated technologies in the attraction). But, the goals and approach are changing rather dramatically.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Uh huh.


To wit:

Muppets Most Wanted was tracking for an opening north of $25 million and it bowed against Divergent and God’s Not Dead. It would be competing for auds with family fare Mr. Peabody & Sherman (in its third frame) and The Lego Movie (still going strong in week seven). The sequel came in way below expectations with $17,005,126 — placing #2 for the weekend led by Divergent. Even after after modest weekly declines, Muppets Most Wanted closed with a disappointing $51,183,113.


The Muppet sequel only coughed up $29.2 million from an overseas rollout, with $12.6 million coming from the UK as the highest gross. It premiered on TV in France and Italy. These numbers were poor enough to derail what could have been more theatrical Muppet features. Disney launched a Muppet TV series in 2015 and canceled it after one season. After theaters take their percentage of the global gross, the mouse house would see returned about $44.1M — which would not even cover half of the P&A expenses.


And also: Box Office: Divergent Opens Strong; Muppets Flops https://www.tvguide.com/news/box-office-divergent-muppets-most-wanted-gods-not-dead-1079596/

PLUS: https://time.com/34783/divergent-is-no-twilight-but-starts-strong-while-muppets-are-not-wanted/

Need more?

Ah I saw that it showed a small profit. My bad. I actually thought it was a very funny movie but I also though Poppins returns was excellent so maybe I’m just not like most people lol
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Ah I saw that it showed a small profit. My bad. I actually thought it was a very funny movie but I also though Poppins returns was excellent so maybe I’m just not like most people lol

Poppins Returns definitely wasn't a bomb. Some people had weirdly high expectations for a sequel to a 50 year old film and those weirdly high expectations weren't reached, but it made at least $100 million.
 
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TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Poppins Returns definitely wasn't a bomb. Some people had weirdly high expectations for a sequel to a 50 year old film and those bizarrely high expectations weren't reached, but it made at least $100 million.

It’s also a big enough franchise 50 years later that it was the finale of the daytime parade in Disneyland and has been featured in 2 of the past few fireworks shows at Disneyland. So even though returns didn’t reach expectations, the franchise as a whole is still extremely popular.

I wish they had just done a movie version of the musical with Laura Michelle Kelly and Gavin Lee. :)
 

ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ

HOUSE OF MAGIC
Premium Member
He looks like a potato wearing a suit.

The perfect Chairman for:
1578346389183.png
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
I know, right? A "Future World" that contains attractions having nothing to do with the future (SSE, Figment, Soarin) and when it does, the exhibitions become outdated within half a decade and linger on for years like some joke. Or a pavilion whose message is dictated by its Big Oil sponsor to include false science to make their industry seem 'cool.' Or even the fact that there are corporate sponsors diluting the purity of the theme park and having an affect on whether a pavilion stays or goes. Or the immaturity of the use of puns for their food and merch services. Or all those mini-kiosks of hands-on future-tech demonstrations that had a ridiculously low guest capacity leaving thousands of children frustrated daily that they can't get their turn.

Oh, the indignities of what had once been perfect... on the drawing board and in the memories clouded by nostalgia.
Meh, that's just poor online Disney warrioring: the parks must be defended online at all costs. Unless they change. Then the bit that's being changed has always been rubbish.

You can do better than that. You're good with keeping track of new projects. But you seldom show an understanding of vintage EPCOT. Turn your gaze around, EPCOT has been such an interesting project! As its pavilions showed, history is the key to understanding the present.

- Future World is a name. Not a setting. All of FW is set in the present day.
FW as name echoes Disney World, World Showcase. It means that the park reflects on the themes and issues that create the world of tomorrow.

- Imagination is very much a resource to be harnessed to create progress and a better future world for our children. What has ever been more Disney than this very realisation!?

- Soarin' is not vintage EPCOT. It is a slightly ill-fitting newish addition. Good ride, but doesn't drive EPCOT forward.

- The exhibitions are meant to be replaced every few years. That's built into their design. Blank temporary exhibition spaces with little expensive infrastructure.

- Corporate sponsorship. Yes, but for better or for worse, this has always been the nature of the beast. Walt's showcase of American Industry. Take it up with old Republican uncle Walt.
The very idea of EPCOT, as community or as park, was to address its central themes in close conjunction with experts from the different fields it presented, including industry sponsors. How else would it have been? TWDC, quite logically, understood nor professed to have any intimate understanding of energy, communication or transport. Just of presenting these topics through various media. From informational films to attractions.

Personally, it did bother even my young teenage self. I realised that I was imprinting on what also functioned as corporate advertisements. But such was EPCOT. An exercise in American capitalism. Crass commercialism, but also the very point.

- CommuniCore was vast and had countless displays. Ranging from the visual, artistic, informative to hands-on. There was plenty to go around for everybody.
Then add in that Motion, Seas and Imageworks had numerous hands-on exhibits too. Like its people-eating rides, EPCOT's exhibits had immense capacity. A Disney park that had solved crowding with huge hourly capacity and wide (then uncluttered) pathways, imagine that.

As always: there are two kinds of WDW fans, those who know EPCOT Center, and those who don't. Through simple passage of time, the former are in ever decreasing number. Not to mention, largely driven away to more dignified pursuits than crass and sorry modern WDW. We realise this is no longer our park and that likewise we are no longer the audience TWDC is interested in. EPCOT, Disney's most daring and greatest park ever, is death. To applause from modern WDW fans. But the brilliance of EPCOT can't be erased from the history books.
 

Brer Panther

Well-Known Member
Plus, given the fact that the second Disney/Muppet movie bombed at the box office, and the recent "comeback" show was cancelled pretty quickly...why should Disney keep up the Muppet brand?
Well, again, Muppets Most Wanted being about the Muppets isn't why that movie bombed. It bombed because it was up against Divergent or whatever that movie was called, focused too much on viral advertising without advertising it much outside of the internet, and was a lousy movie revolving around an unfunny cliche that assumed that if the characters in the movie pointed out all of the movie's problems than the problems aren't problems at all and the movie is suddenly funny and clever.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
and was a lousy movie revolving around an unfunny cliche that assumed that if the characters in the movie pointed out all of the movie's problems than the problems aren't problems at all and the movie is suddenly funny and clever.
I mean that kinda is the muppet formula. I actually didn’t watch until recenely on Disney+ cause I heard it wasn’t very good. I liked it a lot but of course I like the muppets and Ricky G. already.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
So much for respecting Jim Henson! Also news flash, Sesame Place is owned by Sea World (who also owns Bush Gardens and other Sea World Parks that all have the park rights to Sesame Street).


So I guess that those folks who dislike Disney's Star Wars are disrespecting George Lucas?
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
Well, again, Muppets Most Wanted being about the Muppets isn't why that movie bombed. It bombed because it was up against Divergent or whatever that movie was called, focused too much on viral advertising without advertising it much outside of the internet, and was a lousy movie revolving around an unfunny cliche that assumed that if the characters in the movie pointed out all of the movie's problems than the problems aren't problems at all and the movie is suddenly funny and clever.

The movie underperformed the very first weekend, so no, to put it bluntly, you're wrong.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
Meh, that's just poor online Disney warrioring: the parks must be defended online at all costs. Unless they change. Then the bit that's being changed has always been rubbish.

You can do better than that. You're good with keeping track of new projects. But you seldom show an understanding of vintage EPCOT. Turn your gaze around, EPCOT has been such an interesting project! As its pavilions showed, history is the key to understanding the present.

- Future World is a name. Not a setting. All of FW is set in the present day.
FW as name echoes Disney World, World Showcase. It means that the park reflects on the themes and issues that create the world of tomorrow.

- Imagination is very much a resource to be harnessed to create progress and a better future world for our children. What has ever been more Disney than this very realisation!?

- Soarin' is not vintage EPCOT. It is a slightly ill-fitting newish addition. Good ride, but doesn't drive EPCOT forward.

- The exhibitions are meant to be replaced every few years. That's built into their design. Blank temporary exhibition spaces with little expensive infrastructure.

- Corporate sponsorship. Yes, but for better or for worse, this has always been the nature of the beast. Walt's showcase of American Industry. Take it up with old Republican uncle Walt.
The very idea of EPCOT, as community or as park, was to address its central themes in close conjunction with experts from the different fields it presented, including industry sponsors. How else would it have been? TWDC, quite logically, understood nor professed to have any intimate understanding of energy, communication or transport. Just of presenting these topics through various media. From informational films to attractions.

Personally, it did bother even my young teenage self. I realised that I was imprinting on what also functioned as corporate advertisements. But such was EPCOT. An exercise in American capitalism. Crass commercialism, but also the very point.

- CommuniCore was vast and had countless displays. Ranging from the visual, artistic, informative to hands-on. There was plenty to go around for everybody.
Then add in that Motion, Seas and Imageworks had numerous hands-on exhibits too. Like its people-eating rides, EPCOT's exhibits had immense capacity. A Disney park that had solved crowding with huge hourly capacity and wide (then uncluttered) pathways, imagine that.

As always: there are two kinds of WDW fans, those who know EPCOT Center, and those who don't. Through simple passage of time, the former are in ever decreasing number. Not to mention, largely driven away to more dignified pursuits than crass and sorry modern WDW. We realise this is no longer our park and that likewise we are no longer the audience TWDC is interested in. EPCOT, Disney's most daring and greatest park ever, is death. To applause from modern WDW fans. But the brilliance of EPCOT can't be erased from the history books.

Unfortunately, I didn't get to experience the EPCOT you describe. I only know it through videos. And I weep at what it's becoming. I weep especially for Dreamfinder and Figment. What happened to their ride is criminal. I can never forgive TDO for that.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
It’s also a big enough franchise 50 years later that it was the finale of the daytime parade in Disneyland and has been featured in 2 of the past few fireworks shows at Disneyland. So even though returns didn’t reach expectations, the franchise as a whole is still extremely popular.

I wish they had just done a movie version of the musical with Laura Michelle Kelly and Gavin Lee. :)

First: God forbid Poppins becomes a "franchise". There is only one true Poppins film, made back in 1964 by Walt himself.

And Poppins is remembered because of THAT film, not the feeble sequel nobody really wanted.

I have spoken. ;)
 

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