Reflections on my time away from WDW

[HongKongFooy]

Being critical of WDW is our right.

and duty............

when Disney pulls stunts that negatively impact our visits we are obligated to call them on it.

 

[NickMaio]

and duty............

when Disney pulls stunts that negatively impact our visits we are obligated to call them on it.

Especially considering how much they charge for it.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I appreciate you sharing your opinion here. Isn't that what this site is for? Someone who had never considered a Uni vacation might do so after reading your posts. We have APs to WDW. If DLR had been open in September, we would have let our APs lapse and gone there as well as this coming spring. But since they weren't open, we went to WDW instead and we will be in April too. But a Uni vacation is something we've been looking at more and more recently. The hotel comparison alone is enough to really make us want to stay there. More deluxe feeling resorts for the price of a WDW moderate and all within very close proximity to the parks. Plus Express Pass!
Disney is going to HAVE to stop raising their prices without adding new things. COVID has certainly altered plans by both parks so it'll be interesting to see the progress of new additions. But Uni is definitely starting to really solidify itself as a vacation destination versus just a 1-2 day stop on their WDW vacation.

Universal/IOA Orlando are great. Folks who do not give them a try are only doing a disservice to themselves. Disneyparks are great but so are Universal parks, and I love Seaworld at Christmas time (the non COVID version)

Tourists should keep an open mind about all the theme parks in Central Florida. They are all great in their own way.

 

[Trackmaster]

Hi all, I’ve been away for awhile. As I knew travel was impossible, or at least highly inconvenient, I lost my interest in keeping up with Disney news. With vaccines on the horizon, my wife and I began discussing the possibility of taking a trip October 2021. Normally, we are more fond of Disneyland and mixing it in with other SoCal attractions. Disneyland is just easier, cheaper, and (IMO only) better. However, even after vaccines are widespread, I’m hesitant to believe California will jump right back into normal life without capacity limits and such... so I’m reluctant to put my eggs in a “Disneyland vacation basket” as near as 10 months. Plus, we’ve gone to Disneyland the last three trips. As of 10/21, it’ll have been nearly 4 years since our last WDW trip. There are things about it that we miss, primarily Animal Kingdom, and thought it might be a good chance to go back. In the grand scheme of things, though, after time away from Disney parks, I’ve realized I miss them... but not as much as I thought I would. Being away from something or someone has a way of forcing you to look at things objectively rather than having your heartstrings pulled.

Now let me just say, I’ve stood up for Disney forever in terms of its pricing due to considering it a premium product with no equal on the market. I’m no longer convinced of that. The prices I was seeing for a start date of October 25th, 2021, were significantly more than they were last year (I planned a trip last year but didn’t execute). So that led me to do something I never thought I would do... look at Universal.

I didn’t care much for Universal the one time I went, but to be fair I didn’t go to Islands of Adventure. I was looking for an immersive theming to rival Disney, and I didn’t find it - but the comparison may have been unfair. I was comparing it to flagship Disney parks rather than Hollywood Studios or California Adventure. While the theming may be better in certain areas of those parks, I can’t deny that USO had the better ride line-up. And now that my older daughter is just shy of 48 inches (assuming she’ll reach that by 10/21) and loves thrill rides, I think Universal may be the right thing for us. And certainly the right thing for my wallet. Prices I quoted per Undercover Tourist, for two adults and one child ticket:

Universal
5-Day Base - $853
5-Day Park Hopper - $1,032
Add Volcano Bay: + $73

Disney
5-Day Base - $1,567
5-Day Park Hopper - $1,786
Add Blizzard Beach/Typhoon Lagoon: +$71

Now hotel rates for 10/24-10/30:
Royal Pacific - $305/night if including tax
Old Key West (a “reasonable” deluxe) - $513/night if including taxes

And let’s not forget, a stay at the Royal Pacific comes with free Express Pass... which, when traveling with young ones, is worth its weight in gold.

Even the Caribbean Beach and Coronado Springs were coming out just slightly higher than Royal Pacific... motels... with no perks at the moment.

For the same price my family could go to Disney World for five days, we could do:

-Universal (w/Express Pass)
-Discovery Cove
-SeaWorld
-Busch Gardens
-Kennedy Space Center

And still probably save money due to cheaper lodging.

I really don’t want to burst anyone’s spirit. I am just kind of seeing this all really clearly for the first time. Quite the enlightenment. I love Disney. Love it. But it’s not as much of a premium product that it was. It’s been diluted. It’s a headache to get anywhere. Wait times are obscene. The classic stuff still pulls at the heartstrings, but the newer stuff is just on par with Universal - fun, good tech, but no charm. I’d argue Disney has a hard time competing with Universal on the first two and always did well relying on the latter. But they’ve largely abandoned that.

Resort prices are obscene. Now, I believe resorts are important. But I think WDW has long passed its sweet spot. When you have half as many resorts as you do total rides in all your theme parks, there’s a problem.

I can’t drink the Kool-Aid anymore. Not at those prices... not when comparing them to the competition rather than viewing them in isolation. I love the classic Disney stuff, and I will likely return to Disneyland many times in the future to breathe in what Walt Disney himself built. As for the new stuff? Again, I feel like Disney and Universal are building the same things just different IP. Sometimes Disney wins (RotR), sometimes Universal wins (WWoHP). But it’s all the same to me. It’s fun. It’s not emotive. And at this point, I honestly don’t care if I’m lining the pockets of Bob Chapek or Brian Roberts (Comcast CEO). My Disney loyalty has largely given way to indifference. At this point, I can’t see myself returning to WDW. We’re going to Universal next year and will gladly return if it’s a good trip.

*sorry for the novel.

I think that your sentiments are pretty spot on. I might take it to an extreme when I say, "I'm going to a theme park, so I'm going to judge the experience by the rides, and everything else is icing on the cake," but I think that there is some logic to this. I have no problem with Disney expanding their business and trying to create a well rounded experience for more people, but what I object to is the corporate office saying, "OK, the studies have come back, why should we invest in expensive cutting edge rides when our guests are perfectly fine with us just dropping restaurants and food/drink tests in the parks and expanding the hotel experience? Why not skimp on the rides and pour money into things that stupid people will give us more money for?" And I say stupid because I think its dumb to pay admission to a park for the sole reason of paying for overpriced drinks and food. That's great to do, but you should be going for the food. I'm sorry, you can find fine dining and bars anywhere, you don't need to go to a theme park for that. I can't imagine anybody actually paying $140 to go to Epcot for the right eat at an overpriced restaurant. I'm not saying people don't do it, but it seems crazy to me.

Disney needs to get back to making rides and not just replacing them. They have nearly unlimited land, they need to be expanding their parks (or adding a gate if needed) to keep people occupied and not waiting in 2-3 hour lines all day. The $15 chicken fingers and other in park spending is a reward to the park for a job well done, and the quality of the park and the rides will bring people back. People won't go to your parks just to overspend on food and drinks if the rides, shows, fireworks, etc. aren't something that is exceptional. Hopefully people are smart enough to realize that there's great food and drinks everywhere, and you don't need to go to Orlando just for that.

 

[Trackmaster]

Royal Pacific is a great hotel. I don't think it has the same level of theming as the best Disney hotels, but as you pointed out, it's also significantly cheaper than a Disney deluxe and you can easily walk to CityWalk and both parks from there. If you don't want to walk, there's also a boat. I would happily stay there again.

Islands of Adventure is a better park than USO. Diagon Alley is incredible, the Mummy ride is very good, and E.T. is a wonderfaul classic dark ride that would never be built today and will probably be replaced eventually. There's really nothing else worthwhile at USO, other than Rip Ride Rockit if you're a coaster fan. The Springfield area is well done, but the food there is inedible and it doesn't take very long to just look at the buildings.

Although Diagon Alley is much better overall than Hogsmeade (which is at Islands of Adventure and is too small, not to mention the waste of Hogwarts as a setting), Hogsmeade is still really well done and has more attractions. The Jurassic Park area is really good even though the Discovery Center needs a significant technological upgrade -- the Jurassic Park ride is my favorite at Universal. Plus you've got Spiderman, a good rapids ride, a log flume, etc.

I'd recommend doing most (if not all) of your eating at CityWalk, though. Every meal we had in the parks at Universal was horrendous, although I've heard the food in Diagon Alley isn't bad and Mythos is supposed to be solid. The food we had at CityWalk ranged from solid to legitimately excellent.

With all that said, Universal is only a 2 day destination for me. I can easily do everything I care about doing in two days there, whereas I can spend a full week at Disney.

The only thing that makes Disney a four day destination is how far apart the parks are. DAK, DHS, and Epcot are all half day parks. If you're willing to park hop and don't care about the water parks, Disney is a 2.5 day experience. Universal without the waterparks is a 2.0 day experience. Not a huge difference. Throw in the water parks, make that 3.5 days for Disney, 3.0 days for Universal.

I can have a great time at Epcot, DAK, and DHS because I'm a local and never really spend more than three hours when I go, and I couldn't really imagine spending a whole day. The only one I tend to spend longer at is MK, because it has more rides, and takes so long to even get there from the TTC that I want to justify the visit a little more.

 

[HongKongFooy]

I think its dumb to pay admission to a park for the sole reason of paying for overpriced drinks and food. That's great to do, but you should be going for the food. I'm sorry, you can find fine dining and bars anywhere, you don't need to go to a theme park for that. I can't imagine anybody actually paying $140 to go to Epcot for the right eat at an overpriced restaurant.

True True

Paying admission and then queuing up 5 hours to experience the new "Triceratops Tavern" at Animal Kingdom or
"Daisy Duck's Delights" on Main Street just doesn't make sense.

 

[UNCgolf]

The only thing that makes Disney a four day destination is how far apart the parks are. DAK, DHS, and Epcot are all half day parks. If you're willing to park hop and don't care about the water parks, Disney is a 2.5 day experience. Universal without the waterparks is a 2.0 day experience. Not a huge difference. Throw in the water parks, make that 3.5 days for Disney, 3.0 days for Universal.

I can have a great time at Epcot, DAK, and DHS because I'm a local and never really spend more than three hours when I go, and I couldn't really imagine spending a whole day. The only one I tend to spend longer at is MK, because it has more rides, and takes so long to even get there from the TTC that I want to justify the visit a little more.

DAK is definitely a full day park for me, but I agree that EPCOT and DHS aren't. I can still spend a full day at EPCOT partially because of nostalgia for what it once was, but there's just not a ton there anymore. Magic Kingdom is really a 2 day park, though. There's almost no way to do everything there in one day even with FastPasses which brings it back to 3.5-4 days. It may not feel like that for you as a local, but anyone who is actually traveling to visit WDW is going to need multiple days at the Magic Kingdom if they actually want to experience everything there.

I'd argue Universal Studios is a half day park too, though. There's just not much there outside of Diagon Alley -- there are a couple of other rides worth doing but with Express Pass we were completely done there in 5-6 hours.

 

[jaklgreen]

DAK is definitely a full day park for me, but I agree that EPCOT and DHS aren't. I can still spend a full day at EPCOT partially because of nostalgia for what it once was, but there's just not a ton there anymore. Magic Kingdom is really a 2 day park, though. There's almost no way to do everything there in one day even with FastPasses which brings it back to 3.5-4 days. It may not feel like that for you as a local, but anyone who is actually traveling to visit WDW is going to need multiple days at the Magic Kingdom if they actually want to experience everything there.

I'd argue Universal Studios is a half day park too, though. There's just not much there outside of Diagon Alley -- there are a couple of other rides worth doing but with Express Pass we were completely done there in 5-6 hours.

See, now I spend days just at Epcot. I don't agree that Epcot is a half day park at all. The only one that I would say that about is HS. That is the great thing at WDW, there is something for everyone. WDW is really about the experience and the feeling you get when you are there. If all someone wants is to have non-stop thrill rides, then US is probably for them. Disney is a whole different experience. That is why I think that they are not a good comparison.

 

[UNCgolf]

See, now I spend days just at Epcot. I don't agree that Epcot is a half day park at all. The only one that I would say that about is HS. That is the great thing at WDW, there is something for everyone. WDW is really about the experience and the feeling you get when you are there. If all someone wants is to have non-stop thrill rides, then US is probably for them. Disney is a whole different experience. That is why I think that they are not a good comparison.

As I said, I can also easily spend a full day at EPCOT.

But if you're looking at it from the perspective of a one-time visitor, there's just not much there. There's only a handful of rides -- it basically boils down to how much you care about exploring the World Showcase because that's really the only place a person can spend a significant amount of time.

 

[bryanfze55]

Rides aren’t the end all, be all. On the topic of Epcot - just because I’m not physically moving during the American Adventure or Impressions de France doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile. If you actually do all of the experiences the park offers and don’t just jump from E ticket to E ticket, then almost all of the Central Florida parks are full day parks. Nonetheless, most of them still need more to do.

 

[jaklgreen]

Rides aren’t the end all, be all. On the topic of Epcot - just because I’m not physically moving during the American Adventure or Impressions de France doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile. If you actually do all of the experiences the park offers and don’t just jump from E ticket to E ticket, then almost all of the Central Florida parks are full day parks. Nonetheless, most of them still need more to do.

This is exactly my point. If what someone is looking for is just a bunch of thrill rides, then go to US or Six Flags. Disney is not that. I find plenty to entertain me at Epcot and AK and not all of it are rides. Just because some people only see the rides, does not mean there is not things to do and see.

 

[NickMaio]

DAK is definitely a full day park for me, but I agree that EPCOT and DHS aren't. I can still spend a full day at EPCOT partially because of nostalgia for what it once was, but there's just not a ton there anymore. Magic Kingdom is really a 2 day park, though. There's almost no way to do everything there in one day even with FastPasses which brings it back to 3.5-4 days. It may not feel like that for you as a local, but anyone who is actually traveling to visit WDW is going to need multiple days at the Magic Kingdom if they actually want to experience everything there.

I'd argue Universal Studios is a half day park too, though. There's just not much there outside of Diagon Alley -- there are a couple of other rides worth doing but with Express Pass we were completely done there in 5-6 hours.

This is interesting - we can easily spend a day at Epcot and half at AK.
We have a toddler though

 

[UNCgolf]

Rides aren’t the end all, be all. On the topic of Epcot - just because I’m not physically moving during the American Adventure or Impressions de France doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile. If you actually do all of the experiences the park offers and don’t just jump from E ticket to E ticket, then almost all of the Central Florida parks are full day parks. Nonetheless, most of them still need more to do.

This is exactly my point. If what someone is looking for is just a bunch of thrill rides, then go to US or Six Flags. Disney is not that. I find plenty to entertain me at Epcot and AK and not all of it are rides. Just because some people only see the rides, does not mean there is not things to do and see.

I was counting things like Impressions de France and American Adventure -- I should have said attractions rather than rides.

I still don't think there's anywhere near enough to do at EPCOT for a full day if you aren't happy with just exploring the World Showcase -- I am quite happy with that, but a lot of people aren't. I'm not sure it has even half of what it had 25 years ago in terms of attractions with so much closed/under construction.

Building a GotG roller coaster was not the proper solution to this problem, of course.

 

[Trackmaster]

Rides aren’t the end all, be all.

Then what are you doing at a theme park? This might be news to you, but there are tons of places you can go if you want to eat, drink, and look at stuff. Only a few places really have rides, especially the type that Universal or Disney might build. I'd also be willing to put shows and fireworks in the category of "rides" (they're not rides, but they're things that you get at theme parks that you might not get on demand other places).

 

[Trackmaster]

DAK is definitely a full day park for me, but I agree that EPCOT and DHS aren't. I can still spend a full day at EPCOT partially because of nostalgia for what it once was, but there's just not a ton there anymore. Magic Kingdom is really a 2 day park, though. There's almost no way to do everything there in one day even with FastPasses which brings it back to 3.5-4 days. It may not feel like that for you as a local, but anyone who is actually traveling to visit WDW is going to need multiple days at the Magic Kingdom if they actually want to experience everything there.

I'd argue Universal Studios is a half day park too, though. There's just not much there outside of Diagon Alley -- there are a couple of other rides worth doing but with Express Pass we were completely done there in 5-6 hours.

OK, I could stipulate that there are certainly grey areas. If you're waiting in long lines the whole time without Express or Fast Pass and trying to get on everything, they could be multi-week resorts. Frankly, if I find a good day, Universal is a one day resort for both dry parks (and I'm talking about hitting everything). When lines start to build up... then you need more days without an Express if you want to get on everything.

The only way you can justify DAK, DHS, and Epcot as full day parks are when the lines hit. If you find a good day and/or are good with your FP+, you can get through those three pretty easily. Another tip is to get there when they have late night hours (not during the Covid era) and the crowds are already filtering out. Since I don't really feel a need to pay for an Annual Pass just to have rights to purchasing overpriced food and drink, I don't really touch the Food & Wine nonsense, and only do the ADRs (restaurants) on rare occasions when I'm with a group who wants. I'm not a cheapskate, I'm more than willing to financially support the parks I go to, I just refuse to do it on stuff that I feel like should not make up the core day of a theme park.

 

[Chi84]

Then what are you doing at a theme park? This might be news to you, but there are tons of places you can go if you want to eat, drink, and look at stuff. Only a few places really have rides, especially the type that Universal or Disney might build. I'd also be willing to put shows and fireworks in the category of "rides" (they're not rides, but they're things that you get at theme parks that you might not get on demand other places).

Rides are probably at the low end of the significance scale for our WDW vacations. We love the resorts, restaurants, going to Disney Springs for drinks and dinner and taking the boat to Port Orleans for entertainment.

We enjoy the water parks, mainly just to float in the lazy river or the bobbing pool. The shows and jungle treks at AK are among our favorites, and we enjoy the MK dessert parties with their great view of the fireworks show. Lunch at the Brown Derby lounge is fun - you can see some of the Star Wars parades and events from there.

The WS at Epcot is something we always love, with lunch at Tangierine Cafe. Sometimes we will spend an evening at MK, then walk over to Top of the World Lounge for drinks and to watch the fireworks from the balcony there.

Certain added events have been a plus for us - things like Highway in the Sky Dine Around and the behind the scenes tours in the parks.

The thing that makes WDW so great is that it has something for everyone, regardless of one's age or vacation preferences. We still go on rides (FOP and ToT are among our favorites), but in our opinion WDW is the best place by far to "eat, drink and look at stuff." There are a lot of people who agree, and it's very possible FP+ was created with us in mind. People enjoy different things - doesn't mean one has to be right and the other wrong.

 

[bryanfze55]

Then what are you doing at a theme park? This might be news to you, but there are tons of places you can go if you want to eat, drink, and look at stuff. Only a few places really have rides, especially the type that Universal or Disney might build. I'd also be willing to put shows and fireworks in the category of "rides" (they're not rides, but they're things that you get at theme parks that you might not get on demand other places).

Maybe we weren’t on the same page. To me, American Adventure isn’t a ride. A ride is moving. But it was still my high point at Epcot. Now if we want to say “attractions,” then yes I agree I go to a theme park for those. I think there needs to be clarification between rides and attractions. Tom Sawyer Island appeals to me, for instance. Not a ride, though. Personally, I get more out of the Enchanted Tiki Room than I do Seven Dwarfs Mine Train. Themed experience =/= being in motion.

 

[HongKongFooy]

I'd also be willing to put shows and fireworks in the category of "rides" (they're not rides, but they're things that you get at theme parks that you might not get on demand other places).

"attractions" ..............attractions is a very appropriate word for what you're taking about since it includes both ride and show.

 

[Trackmaster]

"attractions" ..............attractions is a very appropriate word for what you're taking about since it includes both ride and show.

Correct sir.

 

[UNCgolf]

OK, I could stipulate that there are certainly grey areas. If you're waiting in long lines the whole time without Express or Fast Pass and trying to get on everything, they could be multi-week resorts. Frankly, if I find a good day, Universal is a one day resort for both dry parks (and I'm talking about hitting everything). When lines start to build up... then you need more days without an Express if you want to get on everything.

The only way you can justify DAK, DHS, and Epcot as full day parks are when the lines hit. If you find a good day and/or are good with your FP+, you can get through those three pretty easily. Another tip is to get there when they have late night hours (not during the Covid era) and the crowds are already filtering out. Since I don't really feel a need to pay for an Annual Pass just to have rights to purchasing overpriced food and drink, I don't really touch the Food & Wine nonsense, and only do the ADRs (restaurants) on rare occasions when I'm with a group who wants. I'm not a cheapskate, I'm more than willing to financially support the parks I go to, I just refuse to do it on stuff that I feel like should not make up the core day of a theme park.

I think DAK is more of a full day park because of the animal exhibits. I could easily spend several hours just doing the animal trails and watching them. EPCOT has the Seas, which helps it as well, but it's not as expansive as the animal exhibits at DAK. DHS doesn't have anything like that.