Reflections on my time away from WDW

[Tom Morrow]

I think I understand what you are saying, but I'm not sure I entirely agree. I don't ever actually feel like I'm controlling anything on Soarin' or Star Tours. I feel like I'm watching mostly random scenes pass by.

You're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm not referring to having an illusion of control or agency in rides. At no point on Disney's screen rides are you sitting there watching characters fight. The action is always "happening" to you, even if you're not actually doing the thing.

 

[bryanfze55]

I don't agree with what you are saying that people "love the kool-aid". That is a dismissive statement basically calling someone an idiot. I totally get going to a Disney forum and discussing what changes or events that you don't like, or what you would like to see. But to come to a Disney fan site just to tell everyone how horrible, overpriced, lack of services, whatever, Disney is just does not make sense. As others have posted, I am not a fan of Vegas, but I don't troll the Vegas fan sites just to tell everyone how horrible I think it is. What purpose does that serve? Frankly, I don't think that there is a comparison with WDW and US. They have different fan bases that they cater to which is completely fine. But the comparisons need to stop. If you like US, then go. No need to come and bash WDW to do so.

You said the difference yourself. You aren’t a Vegas fan. I AM a Disney fan. I have given the House of Mouse a substantial sum of money. I’m a frustrated fan, though. I’m discussing the challenges that Disney has implemented that have caused even this hardcore Disney defender to book with a competitor - not necessarily every time, but this time... I don’t know why that is trolling

 

[UNCgolf]

IMO, Universal only really finally hit upon the same kind of emotional element was when they added Harry Potter, especially Diagon Alley. It just feels like we are stepping into the movie or a lace where magic is real. IMO, that's where the new Star Wars land misses the mark. I can't quite put my finger on why I didn't react on that emotional level. It just doesn't capture the magical feel of Star Wars.

I think a big part of that is because it's an entirely new location just scattered with iconography from Star Wars rather than an iconic location from the films. When people visit Hogsmeade or Diagon Alley, they're entering the same space they've seen on the screen (or read about), with the same stores, buildings, etc.; people already have an emotional attachment to those places. You don't get that in Galaxy's Edge; none of it is recognizable outside of the Millenium Falcon (which seems to be the part that excites the most people, understandably so) and some other vessels.

To be clear, I'm not criticizing Disney for that -- I don't think they had very many options. Mos Eisley/Tatooine is recognizable, but visually bland and there's still nothing iconic about it beyond the cantina. Other locations like Endor and Dagobah don't really allow for shops and restaurants, plus they would be incredibly difficult to build. The best possible options that actually featured in a movie would probably be Coruscant or Naboo, but they are A. from the prequels, which Disney almost certainly didn't want to highlight and B. would have their own significant difficulties in reconstructing.

Going with a new setting was probably their best option, but I do think they flubbed the execution to an extent. It's certainly not bad, but as you said, it just doesn't really feel like Star Wars. Although I don't have any ideas off the top of my head, I'm sure there are things they could have done differently to help promote that feeling.

 

[bryanfze55]

I think a big part of that is because it's an entirely new location just scattered with iconography from Star Wars rather than an iconic location from the films. When people visit Hogsmeade or Diagon Alley, they're entering the same space they've seen on the screen (or read about), with the same stores, buildings, etc.; people already have an emotional attachment to those places. You don't get that in Galaxy's Edge; none of it is recognizable outside of the Millenium Falcon (which seems to be the part that excites the most people, understandably so) and some other vessels.

To be clear, I'm not criticizing Disney for that -- I don't think they had very many options. Mos Eisley/Tatooine is recognizable, but visually bland and there's still nothing iconic about it beyond the cantina. Other locations like Endor and Dagobah don't really allow for shops and restaurants, plus they would be incredibly difficult to build. The best possible options that actually featured in a movie would probably be Coruscant or Naboo, but they are A. from the prequels, which Disney almost certainly didn't want to highlight and B. would have their own significant difficulties in reconstructing.

Going with a new setting was probably their best option, but I do think they flubbed the execution to an extent. It's certainly not bad, but as you said, it just doesn't really feel like Star Wars. Although I don't have any ideas off the top of my head, I'm sure there are things they could have done differently to help promote that feeling.

I think a lot of people (myself included) are just more naturally drawn to the themed “real world” environments. It’s no coincidence that my favorite lands are the classics - Adventureland, Main Street, Frontierland, New Orleans Square/Liberty Square. Also Grizzly Peak in DCA. There’s something that gets to me about a romanticized version of the real world compared to say an alien world like Pandora or Galaxy’s Edge or cartoon worlds such as Cars Land and Toy Story Land. I like Pandora and Cars Land a lot, but they don’t compare to the classics. I think the only one that’s ever come close is Diagon Alley due to the fact that it almost seems like a romanticized version of Old England.

 

[jaklgreen]

You said the difference yourself. You aren’t a Vegas fan. I AM a Disney fan. I have given the House of Mouse a substantial sum of money. I’m a frustrated fan, though. I’m discussing the challenges that Disney has implemented that have caused even this hardcore Disney defender to book with a competitor - not necessarily every time, but this time... I don’t know why that is trolling

Because you are comparing apple to orange. US is NOT WDW. Do you see people comparing Six Flags to US? No, because, even though they are both amusement parks, they are on different levels. Just because these 2 theme parks are in the same city, does not mean that they are comparable. I love Hawaii and am frustrated at how crazy expensive it is to travel there. But I don't go on a Hawaii forum and start listing off how it's much cheaper to go to the Caribbean. We all KNOW that Disney is more expensive then US. But it is in no way comparable.

 

[UNCgolf]

I think a lot of people (myself included) are just more naturally drawn to the themed “real world” environments. It’s no coincidence that my favorite lands are the classics - Adventureland, Main Street, Frontierland, New Orleans Square/Liberty Square. Also Grizzly Peak in DCA. There’s something that gets to me about a romanticized version of the real world compared to say an alien world like Pandora or Galaxy’s Edge or cartoon worlds such as Cars Land and Toy Story Land. I like Pandora and Cars Land a lot, but they don’t compare to the classics. I think the only one that’s ever come close is Diagon Alley due to the fact that it almost seems like a romanticized version of Old England.

I agree that there are a lot of people like that (I'm one too), but I don't think it really explains the issues with Galaxy's Edge vs. Diagon Alley because there are also plenty of people who are not like that. It's just much easier to become immersed in a place someone has spent time exploring in their mind either from reading about it or seeing it in movies/TV.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Well. I was away for several months. As everyone else has been. Have been back for exactly 3 trips since it's been opened back up. And...

It's almost insulting. The parks and resorts are understaffed. The accommodations have always been just notch above a glorified motor lodge - their only saving grace/justification were the grounds and "intangibles". The additional price being asked is in no way commiserate with what is being delivered.

How anybody is "duped" into paying the current On-Property prices, when Hyatt, Hilton and Marriott properties are just a stone throw away - with equal/comparable amenities being offered (In some cases more). And considering that Uber fares are completely absorbed into the savings if you want to resort hop or want transportation to the parks - it amazes me people are actually paying/staying on site.

 

[bryanfze55]

Because you are comparing apple to orange. US is NOT WDW. Do you see people comparing Six Flags to US? No, because, even though they are both amusement parks, they are on different levels. Just because these 2 theme parks are in the same city, does not mean that they are comparable. I love Hawaii and am frustrated at how crazy expensive it is to travel there. But I don't go on a Hawaii forum and start listing off how it's much cheaper to go to the Caribbean. We all KNOW that Disney is more expensive then US. But it is in no way comparable.

Peoples’ opinion on this may vary, but I think they’re very much viewed as competitors at this point. They have both become resort destinations in Central Florida. SeaWorld, on the other hand, is not viewed as a resort destination even though it technically owns 5 parks in Central Florida. I know plenty of people in my area (Midwest) that make the journey to Florida... some go to Disney, some go to Universal, some go to both. But there’s often a debate of “which one should I go to?” And SeaWorld is never part of that debate.

This isn’t a debate of which theme park is the best overall. I don’t deny that WDW has better theming and a better lineup of rides, based mostly on their legacy stuff. This is a debate between which resort destination as a whole is offering more bang for your buck at this moment in time - and pricing, convenience, perks, crowds, transportation, upcharges (I.E. “money grabs”), etc all play a part in that.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

We all KNOW that Disney is more expensive then US. But it is in no way comparable.

They are and people do compare the two.

Saying this on a Disney fan forum just shows obvious bias.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Peoples’ opinion on this may vary, but I think they’re very much viewed as competitors at this point.

In a way they are. But they're really on the same team to an extent. They are unified in competing against a Caribbean Cruise, against a Hawaiian vacation, a Vegas vacation, against a family trip to Europe. They're unified in bringing people to the Orlando area.

But then they compete on how much time one spends at the respective destination. The WDW Resort as a whole is better - no question. The Uni parks are superior. So if one spends a 7 day vacation in Orlando - with 2 days at Uni - Uni is happy. Disney is not. Uni is now trying to get 3 days with VB and soon EK and has made a major investment into resort hotels - they'll be shooting for 4 days before long.

 

[wdwmamamouse]

Hi all, I’ve been away for awhile. As I knew travel was impossible, or at least highly inconvenient, I lost my interest in keeping up with Disney news. With vaccines on the horizon, my wife and I began discussing the possibility of taking a trip October 2021. Normally, we are more fond of Disneyland and mixing it in with other SoCal attractions. Disneyland is just easier, cheaper, and (IMO only) better. However, even after vaccines are widespread, I’m hesitant to believe California will jump right back into normal life without capacity limits and such... so I’m reluctant to put my eggs in a “Disneyland vacation basket” as near as 10 months. Plus, we’ve gone to Disneyland the last three trips. As of 10/21, it’ll have been nearly 4 years since our last WDW trip. There are things about it that we miss, primarily Animal Kingdom, and thought it might be a good chance to go back. In the grand scheme of things, though, after time away from Disney parks, I’ve realized I miss them... but not as much as I thought I would. Being away from something or someone has a way of forcing you to look at things objectively rather than having your heartstrings pulled.

Now let me just say, I’ve stood up for Disney forever in terms of its pricing due to considering it a premium product with no equal on the market. I’m no longer convinced of that. The prices I was seeing for a start date of October 25th, 2021, were significantly more than they were last year (I planned a trip last year but didn’t execute). So that led me to do something I never thought I would do... look at Universal.

I didn’t care much for Universal the one time I went, but to be fair I didn’t go to Islands of Adventure. I was looking for an immersive theming to rival Disney, and I didn’t find it - but the comparison may have been unfair. I was comparing it to flagship Disney parks rather than Hollywood Studios or California Adventure. While the theming may be better in certain areas of those parks, I can’t deny that USO had the better ride line-up. And now that my older daughter is just shy of 48 inches (assuming she’ll reach that by 10/21) and loves thrill rides, I think Universal may be the right thing for us. And certainly the right thing for my wallet. Prices I quoted per Undercover Tourist, for two adults and one child ticket:

Universal
5-Day Base - $853
5-Day Park Hopper - $1,032
Add Volcano Bay: + $73

Disney
5-Day Base - $1,567
5-Day Park Hopper - $1,786
Add Blizzard Beach/Typhoon Lagoon: +$71

Now hotel rates for 10/24-10/30:
Royal Pacific - $305/night if including tax
Old Key West (a “reasonable” deluxe) - $513/night if including taxes

And let’s not forget, a stay at the Royal Pacific comes with free Express Pass... which, when traveling with young ones, is worth its weight in gold.

Even the Caribbean Beach and Coronado Springs were coming out just slightly higher than Royal Pacific... motels... with no perks at the moment.

For the same price my family could go to Disney World for five days, we could do:

-Universal (w/Express Pass)
-Discovery Cove
-SeaWorld
-Busch Gardens
-Kennedy Space Center

And still probably save money due to cheaper lodging.

I really don’t want to burst anyone’s spirit. I am just kind of seeing this all really clearly for the first time. Quite the enlightenment. I love Disney. Love it. But it’s not as much of a premium product that it was. It’s been diluted. It’s a headache to get anywhere. Wait times are obscene. The classic stuff still pulls at the heartstrings, but the newer stuff is just on par with Universal - fun, good tech, but no charm. I’d argue Disney has a hard time competing with Universal on the first two and always did well relying on the latter. But they’ve largely abandoned that.

Resort prices are obscene. Now, I believe resorts are important. But I think WDW has long passed its sweet spot. When you have half as many resorts as you do total rides in all your theme parks, there’s a problem.

I can’t drink the Kool-Aid anymore. Not at those prices... not when comparing them to the competition rather than viewing them in isolation. I love the classic Disney stuff, and I will likely return to Disneyland many times in the future to breathe in what Walt Disney himself built. As for the new stuff? Again, I feel like Disney and Universal are building the same things just different IP. Sometimes Disney wins (RotR), sometimes Universal wins (WWoHP). But it’s all the same to me. It’s fun. It’s not emotive. And at this point, I honestly don’t care if I’m lining the pockets of Bob Chapek or Brian Roberts (Comcast CEO). My Disney loyalty has largely given way to indifference. At this point, I can’t see myself returning to WDW. We’re going to Universal next year and will gladly return if it’s a good trip.

*sorry for the novel.

Thank you for your thoughts --painful as they are to read I find myself agreeing ...we've had many of the same concerns and disappointments. The price comparison you show between WDW and Universal is jaw dropping. The pricing for WDW has gone "beyond the pale" for our family -- along with the incredibly long wait times and difficulty getting fast passes . The new attractions are fine but as the poster said "just don't pull our heartstrings" Toy Story Land was such a disappointment - so congested...and the Carnival area is just as congested and, for us, not appealing. Each year we would go for one week and enjoyed WDW for 22 straight years. I had an annual pass for years to help with discounting the hotel but those discounts really dried up - then they took away the valet parking, etc, etc, etc while increasing the price of the AP every year....so we gave up the AP. Same for Tables in Wonderland that became too expensive to make it worth the investment...worked well for us for about 3 years then they changed it and it no longer made sense for our family. We loved the Wilderness Lodge but when the standard room hovered at $500.00 per night we decided that was it. We are fortunate we could afford to stay there but we are now choosing NOT to stay there --just don't feel the value. Again -we love Disney, we love our memories and would love to return -but Im afraid they may have lost us. So - thanks again for your post and saying so well what, I believe, many of us are feeling- take care.

 

[jaklgreen]

They are and people do compare the two.

Saying this on a Disney fan forum just shows obvious bias.

Most of the people that I have seen trying to compare and decide which park to go to have not been to either WDW or US. Many assume that they are comparable in nature just because they are theme parks and sadly, many look at the numbers and say, "oh, US is cheaper so why not go to the cheaper park since they are the same thing". The amount of people that I have spoken to about WDW that also actually think that they are the same company and are next to each other is mind blowing. That when they book at US, that they can just hop over to Epcot. I have met people on the airplane that believe this and plan to "park hop" to Harry Potter land from "Disney"(which they mean MK). For a certain demographics, US is much better, no doubt about it. But for the majority of families, especially those with little kids or multi generations, WDW is by far a better option. The people on these boards do not represent the general public. You call it bias, I see it as reality. You can't possible believe that WDWORLD, with 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, and 20+ hotels is comparable to US's 2 theme parks, 1 water park and what, 8 hotels? Even the US fans here say that you can spend maybe 3-4 days tops and do everything at US. I would consider it less of a comparison and more of a personal choice depending on what you want. If you are young adult, or someone that is not yet bothered by thrill rides and motion screens, then US is probably a better choice for you. If you have small children, or are bringing grandma along to "share the fun", then WDW is a better choice for you. But toddlers and grandma are not going to have the same experience at both, that is why it is not a comparison.

 

[bryanfze55]

Most of the people that I have seen trying to compare and decide which park to go to have not been to either WDW or US. Many assume that they are comparable in nature just because they are theme parks and sadly, many look at the numbers and say, "oh, US is cheaper so why not go to the cheaper park since they are the same thing". The amount of people that I have spoken to about WDW that also actually think that they are the same company and are next to each other is mind blowing. That when they book at US, that they can just hop over to Epcot. I have met people on the airplane that believe this and plan to "park hop" to Harry Potter land from "Disney"(which they mean MK). For a certain demographics, US is much better, no doubt about it. But for the majority of families, especially those with little kids or multi generations, WDW is by far a better option. The people on these boards do not represent the general public. You call it bias, I see it as reality. You can't possible believe that WDWORLD, with 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, and 20+ hotels is comparable to US's 2 theme parks, 1 water park and what, 8 hotels? Even the US fans here say that you can spend maybe 3-4 days tops and do everything at US. I would consider it less of a comparison and more of a personal choice depending on what you want. If you are young adult, or someone that is not yet bothered by thrill rides and motion screens, then US is probably a better choice for you. If you have small children, or are bringing grandma along to "share the fun", then WDW is a better choice for you. But toddlers and grandma are not going to have the same experience at both, that is why it is not a comparison.

Actually one of the main reasons we’re choosing Uni instead of WDW is because we’ll have a toddler at the time - 2 years, 3 months old. A stay at Royal Pacific would provide us with a level of convenience that a Disney deluxe simply wouldn’t. Toddler needs to go back to the hotel midday? No problem, walk back or take a water taxi... no need to worry about a trip from MK back to your hotel taking 45 minutes or more. No, there’s not many rides for a toddler at Uni. But she doesn’t care at age 2. She’ll get far more out of the play areas, or which Uni seems to have more of. They also have shows aimed directly at toddlers like the Seuss show or Barney show. Honestly - wait 60 minutes in line for Jungle Cruise or let her run around in a play area? Which one will make her happier? I can’t imagine waiting in line with a 2-year-old at WDW without a FP given the wait times that the parks now warrant. Disneyland is a bit different, wait times don’t get nearly as long.

None of this is to say Disney is better or worse, though being bigger isn’t inherently better. It’s to say I was a Disney loyalist who’s now. branching out, and I felt like sharing my thoughts since I’ve bashed Uni for quite some time. But family circumstances can cause a change of heart, like you said.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

You can't possible believe that WDWORLD, with 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, and 20+ hotels is comparable to US's 2 theme parks, 1 water park and what, 8 hotels?

Yes I do, again, as do many.

Much of WDW is ignored by its visitors who do not have the time or interest to see it all anyway. Millions start and end with a day at MK.

Going on about 4 parks vs 2 also ignores how underbuilt 3 of the WDW parks are, or how many of the resorts do not appeal to some families based on price or theme.

 

[NickMaio]

I don't agree with what you are saying that people "love the kool-aid". That is a dismissive statement basically calling someone an idiot. I totally get going to a Disney forum and discussing what changes or events that you don't like, or what you would like to see. But to come to a Disney fan site just to tell everyone how horrible, overpriced, lack of services, whatever, Disney is just does not make sense. As others have posted, I am not a fan of Vegas, but I don't troll the Vegas fan sites just to tell everyone how horrible I think it is. What purpose does that serve? Frankly, I don't think that there is a comparison with WDW and US. They have different fan bases that they cater to which is completely fine. But the comparisons need to stop. If you like US, then go. No need to come and bash WDW to do so.

God forbid that WDW gets bashed.....they do everything right, the nerve of people.
Grow up, it's a discussion on a forum.
I love WDW enough that I can criticize that crappy things they have done and are doing.
I'm here because I love WDW and Disney, my opinion is just as important as yours.
Stop the comparisons......indeed.
You might want to stick to the.....what's the best....posts.

 

[NickMaio]

You said the difference yourself. You aren’t a Vegas fan. I AM a Disney fan. I have given the House of Mouse a substantial sum of money. I’m a frustrated fan, though. I’m discussing the challenges that Disney has implemented that have caused even this hardcore Disney defender to book with a competitor - not necessarily every time, but this time... I don’t know why that is trolling

The kool-aid is very strong here.
I get exactly what you have been saying.
I have been going to WDW for almost 40 years,
It is my happy place.
Being critical of WDW is our right.
It is not trolling.

 

[spock8113]

I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe, you won't be spending money for DisneyWorld anytime soon for a completely different reason:

"Walt Disney World Was Apparently Photoshopping Masks Onto Guests"​

Walt Disney World Was Apparently Photoshopping Masks Onto Guests And ? (yahoo.com)

Interesting. And there are some out there who want to wave a magic wand and take away companies like Disney's liability to it's guests.
Photoshopping masks? Who's bright idea was this? If true, shocking, disappointing and should have people questioning their safety when they, Disney, claims guest safety is their priority.

If you want to see the real Florida data, look for yourself:
Florida Coronavirus Community Action Dashboard (granddaddy) (arcgis.com)

 

[jaklgreen]

The kool-aid is very strong here.
I get exactly what you have been saying.
I have been going to WDW for almost 40 years,
It is my happy place.
Being critical of WDW is our right.
It is not trolling.

You can be critical all you like. I have no problem saying what I think is wrong with WDW if you are talking about it in those context. You all are intentionally not hearing what I am saying. I am not saying that WDW is always 100% better then US or that US is bad in any way. I am saying that they are not comparable. They market to 2 different types of people. They offer 2 different types of experiences. With what the OP posted, I am saying that there is no reason to bash either one. If you want to go to WDW, great! If you want to go to US, then GO. No need to "justify" your decision by bashing the other.

 

[jaklgreen]

God forbid that WDW gets bashed.....they do everything right, the nerve of people.
Grow up, it's a discussion on a forum.
I love WDW enough that I can criticize that crappy things they have done and are doing.
I'm here because I love WDW and Disney, my opinion is just as important as yours.
Stop the comparisons......indeed.
You might want to stick to the.....what's the best....posts.

That is not what I said. And you are the immature one with your name calling. You seem to have your mind made up yourself that you won't even listen to someone else's experience. Hello pot, this is the kettle.

 

[NickMaio]

That is not what I said. And you are the immature one with your name calling. You seem to have your mind made up yourself that you won't even listen to someone else's experience. Hello pot, this is the kettle.

I know you are but what am I.........seriously?

You said we should stop comparing the two parks........I called you on it. This is a forum.