Reflections on my time away from WDW

[UNCgolf]

It is a meaningless distinction, IMO. that's all. Telling me I'm flying, isn't flying when I don't control anything about where I go or what I see. Soarin' also lacks a storyline. It is just a meaningless series of scenes that are far too boring to watch from any couch! I'd fall asleep.

IMO, Disney has plenty of attractions where we just sit and watch scenes happen that don't involve us: PhilharMagic, The Great Movie Ride. The old Energy attraction. (We got to sit and watch both a television show and multiple documentaries!) The France movie. Canada. China. Oh, and there was also the snoozefest with Timon in The Land.

The above were so boring, people visited them just to nap!

We were talking about rides (and specifically sections that rely on looking at a screen), not attractions. Of course a movie is, you know, a movie. Great Movie Ride didn't involve screens, so it doesn't count. The only one that kind of fits is original Energy, but that was really its own unique thing, as was Future World as a whole. There was an attempt to educate beyond mere entertainment.

I don't think it's a meaningless distinction, but it is a fine one, and it's understandable that it doesn't matter at all to some people. But I think it's difficult to make a solely (or very heavily) screen based ride very good to begin with and most of the ones at Universal fail pretty badly at it. What he said is one of the major reasons why.

Of course, Disney has built relatively few of them compared to Universal. I bet if Disney built 5 or 6 more, some of them would be bad -- there's already Smuggler's Run, which is not very good despite putting you in the action.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

We were talking about rides (and specifically sections that rely on looking at a screen), not attractions. Of course a movie is, you know, a movie. Great Movie Ride didn't involve screens, so it doesn't count. The only one that kind of fits is original Energy, but that was really its own unique thing, as was Future World as a whole. There was an attempt to educate beyond mere entertainment.

I don't think it's a meaningless distinction, but it is a fine one, and it's understandable that it doesn't matter at all to some people. But I think it's difficult to make a solely (or very heavily) screen based ride very good to begin with and most of the ones at Universal fail pretty badly at it. What he said is one of the major reasons why.

Of course, Disney has built relatively few of them compared to Universal. I bet if Disney built 5 or 6 more, some of them would be bad -- there's already Smuggler's Run, which is not very good despite putting you in the action.

GMR most certainly had an entire room where guests stopped to watch a screen of movie clips.

If we're excluding 1/2 a park, AND pretending all the portions of rides that don't fit this line of thinking don't exist, then sure, I suppose we could say some portions of some rides at Universal have riders stop to watch action, and some rides at WDW don't do that.

Universal Studios Japan was ranked #4, US (Orlando) was ranked #11, IoA (Orlando) was ranked #12, and US (Hollywood) was ranked #15 in theme/amusement park attendance worldwide in 2019. (TEA/AECOM Theme Index and Museum Index Report) I'm not sure that Universal fails badly at building attractions. Personally, I'd say those numbers indicate some level of success.

 

[UNCgolf]

GMR most certainly had an entire room where guests stopped to watch a screen of movie clips.

If we're excluding 1/2 a park, AND pretending all the portions of rides that don't fit this line of thinking don't exist, then sure, I suppose we could say some portions of some rides at Universal have riders stop to watch action, and some rides at WDW don't do that.

Universal Studios Japan was ranked #4, US (Orlando) was ranked #11, IoA (Orlando) was ranked #12, and US (Hollywood) was ranked #15 in theme/amusement park attendance worldwide in 2019. (TEA/AECOM Theme Index and Museum Index Report) I'm not sure that Universal fails badly at building attractions. Personally, I'd say those numbers indicate some level of success.

No one is really excluding anything -- you're comparing apples and oranges. I don't know why you can't see the difference between something like the movie clips in GMR and what happens in a ride like Kong or Transformers. You're supposed to be just watching a movie in something like GMR; in rides like the aforementioned you're supposed to actually be there in the middle of the action.

You're also setting up strawmen. Nobody said Universal fails at building rides or that it's a bad park. It's not a dichotomy where Disney = good and Universal = bad. Disney has built some awful stuff recently and Diagon Alley is better than anything Disney has built (at least in the US) in a long time.

 

[PiratesMansion]

To me the difference is entirely about the flight time. Not that I mind taking long flights to get somewhere I really want to go, but when you're talking about those long haul flights you're basically spending two full extra days just on travel. And it's such a miserable experience to be on a plane that long -- I've never actually done one as long as Japan/Tokyo, but I've done numerous 7-10 hour flights to/from Europe.

I feel like you need to be going somewhere for 10+ days to justify all of that extra travel time.

True. But if you've already done a 10 hour flight, a flight to Tokyo probably isn't that much longer no matter where you are in the US.

I will say the carrier and the level of service also makes a huge difference-12 hours on a Japan Airlines flight was considerably better than 12 hours on American Airlines.

We frequently go to DLR but have never done Universal Hollywood (but have done UO a bunch)—do you recommend it and if so, how many days?

I'd say it entirely depends on how much interest you have in the Studio Tour, which is a very cool experience. Note, however, that if you want to tour a movie studio, you can also tour (ranked from worst to best) Paramount, Sony, or Warner Bros for less money than a Universal ticket. Warner Bros. particularly allows you to walk around their backlot a bit and gives you a longer actual tour for less money than a Universal ticket.

Hollywood has some good shows that Orlando does not (ex. Waterworld). The other rides are largely identical to those in Orlando (except JP, which is better, and Mummy, which is worse), although Secret Life of Pets and Super Nintendo World are coming and will be exclusive for at least a few years. The mountaintop setting is cool (and you can see the Warner Bros. and Disney Studios from the park). Unless Super Nintendo World massively increases crowds, you can easily complete everything you want to do in one day.

I do think admission is overpriced for what you are getting and how little of it is comparatively novel if you've been to UOR, but the Studio Tour is very cool and I've always enjoyed my visits. You could go and have a wonderful time, but depending on what you want and how much time you have, it may be better to do something unique to the area instead.

 

[UNCgolf]

True. But if you've already done a 10 hour flight, a flight to Tokyo probably isn't that much longer no matter where you are in the US.

I will say the carrier and the level of service also makes a huge difference-12 hours on a Japan Airlines flight was considerably better than 12 hours on American Airlines.

Right -- it's not necessarily the length of the flight itself (although that's obviously a factor); it's the ratio of time spent travelling vs. time spent in the location. It's not really feasible (at least for most people) to just plan a quick trip to Tokyo Disney when you have to spend two days just getting there and back. It needs to be part of a longer trip. It's much easier for someone in the US to fly to Orlando or LA for 3 or 4 days than it is for them to fly to Tokyo for the same length of time.

 

[NickMaio]

I understand your argument, but I think that Transformers and Kong might be bad examples. I'm pretty sure that with Transformers its supposed to be like Spiderman where Optimus Prime is taking you on a ridealong with him for some reason and you're helping him save the day or something. He thanks you for helping him for some reason. I think its a bad script but I believe that the intention is supposed to be you physically existing within the universe of the ride experience. With Kong I think its pretty clear that you were supposed to be in an innocent tour group through the jungle before you took a wrong turn and all of the creatures start attacking you (so kind of a similar plot to Jurassic Park: the Ride).

I think in general, theme park attractions are supposed to be told in 1st person. The idea is that you pay $12 to see a movie in 3rd person at the theatre without having to break a sweat or do much work, but you pay $100 to experience a simulated version of it in first person.


I think that this was meant as a joke. I rode Gringotts before I saw any of the movies, and I could tell from the context of the ride scenes that he was the Big Bad of the franchise.

In transformers, you need to get the All Spark away from the decepticons and out of the city.

YOU are a character in the story. Action is going on around you and because of your actions in the ride. Cripes....Optimus Prime personally thanks you at the end of the ride.......

Anyone that says you are just sitting watching the screens is either incredibly ignorant, or loves WDW so much that they dont pick up on these very easy points. I'm betting the latter, around here.
WDW screen rides and Uni screen rides are so close it's crazy.....just wait for the Guardians coaster to open. All the WDW fans will be spouting how amazing it is.....it will be filled with screens everywhere you look.
The blind comments on this forum never cease to amaze me.

 

[UNCgolf]

In transformers, you need to get the All Spark away from the decepticons and out of the city.

YOU are a character in the story. Action is going on around you and because of your actions in the ride. Cripes....Optimus Prime personally thanks you at the end of the ride.......

Anyone that says you are just sitting watching the screens is either incredibly ignorant, or loves WDW so much that they dont pick up on these very easy points. I'm betting the latter, around here.
WDW screen rides and Uni screen rides are so close it's crazy.....just wait for the Guardians coaster to open. All the WDW fans will be spouting how amazing it is.....it will be filled with screens everywhere you look.
The blind comments on this forum never cease to amaze me.

Are you sure you're on the right forum?

Most of what I see here is people criticizing screen based rides, and most people are not excited about the Guardians ride. I have no idea why you think people here just blindly love everything WDW does.

I also don't think you really understood the point people were making about the Transformers ride (and others). But as I said above, I'm not sure that it's really any significant difference between Disney and Universal. I just think Universal has leaned more heavily into screens than Disney has up to this point. My guess is that if Disney builds several more rides that rely heavily on screens, they will end up having the exact same issues that some of the Universal rides have.

 

[HongKongFooy]

just wait for the Guardians coaster to open. All the WDW fans will be spouting how amazing it is.....it will be filled with screens everywhere you look.

Word has it Guardian is approx $460 million making it by far the most expensive attraction ever, surpassing Radiator Springs Racers by approx $100 million .......are you sure it's going to be screened to the gills?

 

[NickMaio]

Word has it Guardian is approx $460 million making it by far the most expensive attraction ever, surpassing Radiator Springs Racers by approx $100 million .......are you sure it's going to be screened to the gills?

Oh yes, I am quite sure.
Lots of screens and projections.

 

[NickMaio]

Are you sure you're on the right forum?

Most of what I see here is people criticizing screen based rides, and most people are not excited about the Guardians ride. I have no idea why you think people here just blindly love everything WDW does.

I also don't think you really understood the point people were making about the Transformers ride (and others). But as I said above, I'm not sure that it's really any significant difference between Disney and Universal. I just think Universal has leaned more heavily into screens than Disney has up to this point. My guess is that if Disney builds several more rides that rely heavily on screens, they will end up having the exact same issues that some of the Universal rides have.

The point I was making, in case it did not come across was that, here people think WDW screen rides are better, when really they are not.
Many have said that Uni screen rides are like sitting on a couch having little to do with the story, which they are not.

 

[UNCgolf]

The point I was making, in case it did not come across was that, here people think WDW screen rides are better, when really they are not.
Many have said that Uni screen rides are like sitting on a couch having little to do with the story, which they are not.

I think Flight of Passage and Soarin' are both much better than any of the Universal screen rides, but I think that's because of the type of ride rather than any significant difference between Universal and Disney. A simulated flying ride seems to be where the technology works the best, at least for me. In other types of rides it works better as a supplement rather than the main focus of the ride. That's probably why Forbidden Journey works so well -- the screen part is simulated flying, and it's also not the entire ride. There are other parts that do not rely on screens.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I think Flight of Passage and Soarin' are both much better than any of the Universal screen rides.

Aye, there's the rub.

I think that's the last page of discussion in a nutshell.




(Happy 2021! Hopefully, next year will be better all around!)

 

[SyracuseDisneyFan]

I really miss Disney World so much. I hope to get back at some point.

 

[rangerbob]

We frequently go to DLR but have never done Universal Hollywood (but have done UO a bunch)—do you recommend it and if so, how many days?

I did a day and could have done a second as there were a few other things that we wanted to do. I did mostly the shows there as we don't have them at UO.

 

[NelleBelle]

I did a day and could have done a second as there were a few other things that we wanted to do. I did mostly the shows there as we don't have them at UO.

That sounds different enough from UO that we'd do that! Now if poor CA can get themselves together to ever open up.

 

[plawren2]

Hi all, I’ve been away for awhile. As I knew travel was impossible, or at least highly inconvenient, I lost my interest in keeping up with Disney news. With vaccines on the horizon, my wife and I began discussing the possibility of taking a trip October 2021. Normally, we are more fond of Disneyland and mixing it in with other SoCal attractions. Disneyland is just easier, cheaper, and (IMO only) better. However, even after vaccines are widespread, I’m hesitant to believe California will jump right back into normal life without capacity limits and such... so I’m reluctant to put my eggs in a “Disneyland vacation basket” as near as 10 months. Plus, we’ve gone to Disneyland the last three trips. As of 10/21, it’ll have been nearly 4 years since our last WDW trip. There are things about it that we miss, primarily Animal Kingdom, and thought it might be a good chance to go back. In the grand scheme of things, though, after time away from Disney parks, I’ve realized I miss them... but not as much as I thought I would. Being away from something or someone has a way of forcing you to look at things objectively rather than having your heartstrings pulled.

Now let me just say, I’ve stood up for Disney forever in terms of its pricing due to considering it a premium product with no equal on the market. I’m no longer convinced of that. The prices I was seeing for a start date of October 25th, 2021, were significantly more than they were last year (I planned a trip last year but didn’t execute). So that led me to do something I never thought I would do... look at Universal.

I didn’t care much for Universal the one time I went, but to be fair I didn’t go to Islands of Adventure. I was looking for an immersive theming to rival Disney, and I didn’t find it - but the comparison may have been unfair. I was comparing it to flagship Disney parks rather than Hollywood Studios or California Adventure. While the theming may be better in certain areas of those parks, I can’t deny that USO had the better ride line-up. And now that my older daughter is just shy of 48 inches (assuming she’ll reach that by 10/21) and loves thrill rides, I think Universal may be the right thing for us. And certainly the right thing for my wallet. Prices I quoted per Undercover Tourist, for two adults and one child ticket:

Universal
5-Day Base - $853
5-Day Park Hopper - $1,032
Add Volcano Bay: + $73

Disney
5-Day Base - $1,567
5-Day Park Hopper - $1,786
Add Blizzard Beach/Typhoon Lagoon: +$71

Now hotel rates for 10/24-10/30:
Royal Pacific - $305/night if including tax
Old Key West (a “reasonable” deluxe) - $513/night if including taxes

And let’s not forget, a stay at the Royal Pacific comes with free Express Pass... which, when traveling with young ones, is worth its weight in gold.

Even the Caribbean Beach and Coronado Springs were coming out just slightly higher than Royal Pacific... motels... with no perks at the moment.

For the same price my family could go to Disney World for five days, we could do:

-Universal (w/Express Pass)
-Discovery Cove
-SeaWorld
-Busch Gardens
-Kennedy Space Center

And still probably save money due to cheaper lodging.

I really don’t want to burst anyone’s spirit. I am just kind of seeing this all really clearly for the first time. Quite the enlightenment. I love Disney. Love it. But it’s not as much of a premium product that it was. It’s been diluted. It’s a headache to get anywhere. Wait times are obscene. The classic stuff still pulls at the heartstrings, but the newer stuff is just on par with Universal - fun, good tech, but no charm. I’d argue Disney has a hard time competing with Universal on the first two and always did well relying on the latter. But they’ve largely abandoned that.

Resort prices are obscene. Now, I believe resorts are important. But I think WDW has long passed its sweet spot. When you have half as many resorts as you do total rides in all your theme parks, there’s a problem.

I can’t drink the Kool-Aid anymore. Not at those prices... not when comparing them to the competition rather than viewing them in isolation. I love the classic Disney stuff, and I will likely return to Disneyland many times in the future to breathe in what Walt Disney himself built. As for the new stuff? Again, I feel like Disney and Universal are building the same things just different IP. Sometimes Disney wins (RotR), sometimes Universal wins (WWoHP). But it’s all the same to me. It’s fun. It’s not emotive. And at this point, I honestly don’t care if I’m lining the pockets of Bob Chapek or Brian Roberts (Comcast CEO). My Disney loyalty has largely given way to indifference. At this point, I can’t see myself returning to WDW. We’re going to Universal next year and will gladly return if it’s a good trip.

*sorry for the novel.

I have 10+ lifetime visits to WDW (spreading from 1971 to 2016) that included several when my kids were younger (they are now 25&19). Plus several visits to DL, including their 50th in 2005. Just booked first WDW trip since 2016, entire family going in November for 50th anniversary, but well aware experience may not be complete due to changes and cutbacks. We always alternated WDW/DL trips with taking our kids to other states and cities in the US (plus Caribbean) as they "outgrew' WDW. Plus in recent years my wife and I skipped WDW over trips to various national parks, cities and Caribbean cruises as we aim to see more of the country and have other experiences. But have targeted a return to WDW for 50th for several years. All of those other trips were really not in attempts to skip or dismiss WDW or DL but changes to see many other locations across the US. But admit as experienced as we are with WDW trips, the increased costs and complexity of planning visits (plus the crowd growth over last decade-before COVID) were factors for us to look at other trips. I really don't know if any of our future travel plans for 2022 and beyond will include WDW or DL, but I doubt since we still have lists of US and European places to visit one day. And it may be decade or longer before grand kids and I am not sure the tradition of family visits to WDW started by my parents in 1970s and continued by us in 1990s/2000s, will carry over to the next generation.

 

[Trackmaster]

In transformers, you need to get the All Spark away from the decepticons and out of the city.

YOU are a character in the story. Action is going on around you and because of your actions in the ride. Cripes....Optimus Prime personally thanks you at the end of the ride.......

Anyone that says you are just sitting watching the screens is either incredibly ignorant, or loves WDW so much that they dont pick up on these very easy points. I'm betting the latter, around here.
WDW screen rides and Uni screen rides are so close it's crazy.....just wait for the Guardians coaster to open. All the WDW fans will be spouting how amazing it is.....it will be filled with screens everywhere you look.
The blind comments on this forum never cease to amaze me.

And while Disney hasn't gone as crazy with the screens as Universal, they just do projection mapping instead. Notice that these new rides don't exactly have many animatronics or natural effects. Instead of projecting videos onto screens, they just project videos onto objects. I mean I think projection is a step up from pure video screens, but it still looks kind of fake and cartoonish. I think it works pretty well on the Tree of Life and Mickey and Minnie, but for a ride like RotR, I think so much of it just looks totally fake with how much it uses projection mapping. I'm excited for the few parts where you actually see animatronics, but its still a lot of projections.

For how much Disney charges and the crowds they get, you'd think they could invest in the rides and not just the restaurants.

 

[Buck Wheelie]

I agree with the OP that a watered down Disney is not going to go over well. People have very high expectations of Disney inside and outside of the parks. I realize Disney have lost a ton of money this year but they still have to make the experience for the visitor beyond outstanding. Disney charges a lot (sometimes more than a lot) for everything and those prices continue to rise. Most people including us "regular" visitors don't mind the high prices as long as we feel we are getting our moneys worth. Worst thing that can happen is visitors thinking they are being taken advantage of. The daily resort parking fee might fall in that category for some visitors especially after ending ME. Disney might be shooting themselves in the foot with all the cuts on top of price increases.

 

[NickMaio]

Up to this point they were making record profits year after year.......
They chose to give huge bonuses to the elite employees instead of putting more into development or saving for a global catastrophe.

As loyal fans we owe it to ourselves to keep Disney at their top level.
Criticize when neccessary, and it's been necessary.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Then dont go? I don’t understand the need for everyones diatribes, where they need to explain why they are doing something besides Disney. Its your time and your money, do whatever you want

Let's not go down this path. It's not about "not going"...its about getting value for what you are paying. Everybody on this board loves Disney. A lot of us also love Uni, SeaWorld, heck, even ICON. The point here is - the "Disney Experience" is no longer an "experience". It's a fun, distracting, entertaining day (or few days) that equates to a considerable amount of money. Unless you are an AP on AP pricing, you're getting gouged right now.

To some, getting gouged is acceptable. To others, not so much. At the end of the day you make the decision to get gouged or not. But don't criticize people who feel they are. It is acceptable to "enjoy" Disney and yet feel the experience was not worth the price you paid. This is the reason we have forums such as this in the first place. To express opinions. Opinions are not right or wrong. They are opinions. You can agree with them. Or you don't.

If you don't agree with a posters position either don't respond or give your rationale about why you disagree (which doesn't make you or them - right or wrong). Throwing a tantrum doesn't make for good reading.