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EPCOT Reflections of Earth confirmed to be replaced by Harmonious
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
The show is beautiful and very visually impressive - would I rather they used this same tech to have a story driven non IP based show as a more direct successor to Illuminations? Of course - but I can't deny that the nuts and bolts of this show are impressive. It will be interesting to see how general park guests react to it. I'd say the biggest issue to me nuts and bolts wise is the daytime situation. This show was always going to be a hard sell for those of us who yearn for the Epcot of yore. The lack of a story that ties into the original vision of the park and instead having an IP-driven show was always going to be offensive to many Epcot fans and it does feel out of place - if this show was at Disneyland or Magic Kingdom we'd probably be having a different conversation. While I still love it, Epcot does seem like a park with an identity crisis as in some ways it is a hodge podge of IP meshing with what's left of the old Epcot. If there is a negative reaction from even casual park guests then perhaps the show will be short lived - I'm sure this tech was installed and meant to be long term - so I'm sure they have the ability to change the show's story, visuals, and music to something new while re-using the nuts and bolts.
I think that one of my biggest problems is that there is no creatively in the tech.
Sure, it’s got a lot of things to look at, but it’s not breaking any new ground or reimagining the way the tech is used. There no inferno barge, no Earth barge opening up to reveal a hidden torch, no hundreds of points of light scattered across the water. Of course RoE was showing its age, but in 1999 some of the things that it did had simply never been done before.
There’s nothing in Harmonious that a typical large concert tour hasn’t been doing for the last 10+ years when it comes to screens and lights, and many of them have honestly done it better or ‘invented’ the iconography in the first place. U2 was doing huge LED screens on tour in 1997. Automated lighting has been around since the 1980s. The water rig pales compared to World of Color’s installation thats now 10 years old. The articulating truss arms are huge, but clunky and slow and can’t muster the fluidity and speed of motion a modern theatrical rigging automation system can deliver on Broadway.
Technically speaking, this show looks to me like it could have been holding its own in 2009. That might be ok if it was in service of a truly world-class and imaginative design, but err.. well…
I'm crying and laughing at this quote of yours at the same time.
I find this offensive and misleading. I am one of the real humans intending on seeing this spectacular in person. I am not an android, and wil l enjoy th [[[8/]] default Press esc to stop feed]
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
And yet, Illuminations had much more pyro overall in its 12 minute running time than this does in it's 20+ minutes. Further, those 5 minutes where "nothing happened" in ROE? Well about 15 of the 20 minutes of this show were just watching screens, lights, and articulated arms slowly move around while the ridiculously overproduced soundtrack blares.
As a huge ROE lover, admittedly it is true that probably 95% of guests did not grasp the "story" behind it. However, the vast majority got the theme and message, which was very clear: it was a pivotal moment for the history of mankind. We don't know where we're going, but we all know that we must learn from the past, set our differences aside, and unite. (sadly this didn't happen lol)
Harmonious has no overarching theme or message. It sort of hand-waves one via the narration, something about music inspiring people around the world, but it's so forced and ingenuine, and the show itself does absolutely nothing to convey it. Remove that little blurb of narration and the different languages and this is yet another Greatest Hits Clip Show.
You know what else is good? Ignite! at SeaWorld. No story, no message, but it generates a mood and energy through much simpler tech that Harmonious doesn't even remotely come close to matching.
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Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
Spot on. Posts like this make me hope that the people in charge read the boards. I know they do here and there, but they need to see the deep cuts like this.
Especially this part:
This is a point that is sadly getting lost under current leadership, and the endless "Disney lifestyler/influencer" types aren't helping. Walt Disney World is special, not because everyone wants to blindly consume the Disney brand. I can't even count how many people I know like myself who in no way endlessly consume Disney media but have always loved the Disney parks.
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Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
Music while the Show runs sounds like a badly mastered CD.
Look up the digital audio issue known as 'brickwalling'.
When I saw the show a couple of nights ago in the Park the thought crossed my mind.
Audio has a overlay harsh 'loudness' to it.
Might have just been my viewing area angle.
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Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
I actually noticed this too. Every element of each track was the same volume. Even some audio clipping. This, combined with the overly busy, noisy, layered nature of the tracks made me almost want to walk away. I thought maybe it was just the speakers in my area and/or it still needing tweaking, but then they've been working on this show for a while now and all that should have been ironed out if it were equipment related.
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A total aside - I’ve long thought OLC should sponsor the Sinbad Storybook Voyage ride in the Japan pavilion which would be a) the best ride in World Showcase and b) an incredible way to advertise Tokyo DisneySea and the TDR as a whole.
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
I am glad to hear that the effect in person is impressive, but I have the exact same thought about the lack of creativity in their choice and use of the tech.I think that one of my biggest problems is that there is no creatively in the tech.
Sure, it’s got a lot of things to look at, but it’s not breaking any new ground or reimagining the way the tech is used. There no inferno barge, no Earth barge opening up to reveal a hidden torch, no hundreds of points of light scattered across the water. Of course RoE was showing its age, but in 1999 some of the things that it did had simply never been done before.
There’s nothing in Harmonious that a typical large concert tour hasn’t been doing for the last 10+ years when it comes to screens and lights, and many of them have honestly done it better or ‘invented’ the iconography in the first place. U2 was doing huge LED screens on tour in 1997. Automated lighting has been around since the 1980s. The water rig pales compared to World of Color’s installation thats now 10 years old. The articulating truss arms are huge, but clunky and slow and can’t muster the fluidity and speed of motion a modern theatrical rigging automation system can deliver on Broadway.
Technically speaking, this show looks to me like it could have been holding its own in 2009. That might be ok if it was in service of a truly world-class and imaginative design, but err.. well…
It looks to me like a bunch of concert equipment installed in the middle of the park that then does would you would expect concert equipment to do during the show. I don't really see any huge surprises there. As @TrojanUSC said, what has made other Disney shows so impressive is how the designers created shows that integrated into and used the environments of the parks. This necessitated creatively resolving the problems involved with developing something that would wow guests but not ruin the themed environment when it was not running. I'm sure Fantasmic at DL would be more technically impressive if they could permanently install giant screens and lighting rigs around Rivers of America, for example, but the overall result would be far less impressive than the water screens and other elements that pop out of the landscape.
Sticking a bunch of giant screens and lighting rigs in the middle of the lagoon just seems a particularly uncreative way of resolving how to develop a successor to Illuminations. It suggests show designers focussing on the show they wanted to create and largely ignoring any concern about how it could be physically integrated into the park. I also find the tech very inelegant if not ugly and, again, I don't know what it does that is particularly new or unexpected. It's also poorly conceived in terms of being viewable from around the lagoon.
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SorcererDonald16
Well-Known Member
At this point, in some respects TPTB are turning the parks in to a real-life version of WALL-E. You will be mindlessly shuttled from one area to another. You will have screens in front of your face at all times that will “address” all of your needs. You will want, like, and buy whatever Disney tells you is on trend to buy, and you will thank them for it. Nothing is subtle or involves metaphors anymore, because that would require thinking about anything other than *the product* they want you to buy.
The influencer/Instagram/TikTok crowd has further enabled this, and Disney execs are giddily exploiting it. Don’t like it? Well, the current TPTB’s response seems to be the chorus of Weird Al’s parody version of the song “Everything You Know is Wrong!”
What they are foolishly forgetting is that Disney has very much been a generational fandom at its core. Parks included. Children with Disney parks loving parents grow up and pass the tradition on to their own children, and the circle continues. Memories have driven a lot of Disney nostalgia, and they drive them long term. Hollow things, be they attractions, shows, or merchandise, drive social media attention and like and retweets, not anything long lasting. They will get Disney short term gains, but long term losses.
Or maybe I am too optimistic and social media driven things will ultimately win the day over quality, and Disney will keep barreling down this road with no problems. Speaking for myself, I have loved WDW my whole life. My parents loved it before I was born and passed that on to me. I have been less than pleased with a lot of the changes in recent years, but Harmonious in particular really feels like the end of the rope for me and what I am willing to put up with. I had the pleasure of seeing ROE on a 9/11 anniversary, and it was one of the more emotional and memorable vacation experiences in my life. It meant something. I don’t just want sing-alongs and endless blatant adverts for their movies in Epcot, I want to be inspired and learn something about the greater world and about myself (as much as a theme park can foster that). Clearly I am apparently no longer the kind of guest they want at their parks, so my thought now is why should I keep going or later down the road pass the tradition on to my own child or children? If I’m not alone in that thought, they could be in for a world of hurt financially down the road.
vikescaper
Well-Known Member
I think I actually like that view better than one where you can see the stargate.
Obviously, what's needed is more Stargates.
Put one nearer the shore in front of each national pavilion.
vikescaper
Well-Known Member
Better yet, since everybody has a cell phone, enable a streaming feature where people can watch the video on their phones.
hosekiller
Well-Known Member
MagicHappens1971
Well-Known Member
Seeing the badges in person for the first time today, they are much larger than pictures show. Can’t say their uglier but their size is really disgusting and distracting.
bcoachable
Well-Known Member
Kudos for the U2 mentionI think that one of my biggest problems is that there is no creatively in the tech.
Sure, it’s got a lot of things to look at, but it’s not breaking any new ground or reimagining the way the tech is used. There no inferno barge, no Earth barge opening up to reveal a hidden torch, no hundreds of points of light scattered across the water. Of course RoE was showing its age, but in 1999 some of the things that it did had simply never been done before.
There’s nothing in Harmonious that a typical large concert tour hasn’t been doing for the last 10+ years when it comes to screens and lights, and many of them have honestly done it better or ‘invented’ the iconography in the first place. U2 was doing huge LED screens on tour in 1997. Automated lighting has been around since the 1980s. The water rig pales compared to World of Color’s installation thats now 10 years old. The articulating truss arms are huge, but clunky and slow and can’t muster the fluidity and speed of motion a modern theatrical rigging automation system can deliver on Broadway.
Technically speaking, this show looks to me like it could have been holding its own in 2009. That might be ok if it was in service of a truly world-class and imaginative design, but err.. well…
ChrisFL
Premium Member
I'm pretty sure OLC literally CAN'T advertise Tokyo Disney anywhere outside of Japan per agreements with Disney