News Reflections of Earth confirmed to be replaced by Harmonious

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WDWTrojan

Well-Known Member
SoFloMagic said:
The tech is spectacular. Hands down. It's super impressive. Arms have cool lighting and in several scenes are used really well.
Despite what others have said, they do roll out new tricks as it progresses: stargate pyro, lasers, arm pyro, perimeter pyro canons, spaceship earth lights.

I don't know quite what it is, but there's no denying it's a technically-impressive something
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To paraphrase Dr. Ian Malcom from Jurassic Park: "Yeah, but your Imagineers were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."

It's absolutely technically impressive, but it reminds me of something that would be more appropriate for for a music festival like EDC or for a mega stadium concert tour. Just because something is technologically amazing does not make it right for this park.

Part of the amazing aspect of Illuminations was that it all happened on the lagoon and most of the hardware was invisible during the day, so it just seemed to "come alive" at night. Same with the original F! at Disneyland. Placing four giant tacos to serve as jumbotrons is the least creative decision they could have made for how to present filmed visuals.
 
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lordsigma

Active Member
The show is beautiful and very visually impressive - would I rather they used this same tech to have a story driven non IP based show as a more direct successor to Illuminations? Of course - but I can't deny that the nuts and bolts of this show are impressive. It will be interesting to see how general park guests react to it. I'd say the biggest issue to me nuts and bolts wise is the daytime situation. This show was always going to be a hard sell for those of us who yearn for the Epcot of yore. The lack of a story that ties into the original vision of the park and instead having an IP-driven show was always going to be offensive to many Epcot fans and it does feel out of place - if this show was at Disneyland or Magic Kingdom we'd probably be having a different conversation. While I still love it, Epcot does seem like a park with an identity crisis as in some ways it is a hodge podge of IP meshing with what's left of the old Epcot. If there is a negative reaction from even casual park guests then perhaps the show will be short lived - I'm sure this tech was installed and meant to be long term - so I'm sure they have the ability to change the show's story, visuals, and music to something new while re-using the nuts and bolts.
 
T

techgeek

Well-Known Member
SoFloMagic said:
I don't know quite what it is, but there's no denying it's a technically-impressive something
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TrojanUSC said:
It's absolutely technically impressive, but it reminds me of something that would be more appropriate for for a music festival like EDC or for a mega stadium concert tour. Just because something is technologically amazing does not make it right for this park.
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I think that one of my biggest problems is that there is no creatively in the tech.

Sure, it’s got a lot of things to look at, but it’s not breaking any new ground or reimagining the way the tech is used. There no inferno barge, no Earth barge opening up to reveal a hidden torch, no hundreds of points of light scattered across the water. Of course RoE was showing its age, but in 1999 some of the things that it did had simply never been done before.

There’s nothing in Harmonious that a typical large concert tour hasn’t been doing for the last 10+ years when it comes to screens and lights, and many of them have honestly done it better or ‘invented’ the iconography in the first place. U2 was doing huge LED screens on tour in 1997. Automated lighting has been around since the 1980s. The water rig pales compared to World of Color’s installation thats now 10 years old. The articulating truss arms are huge, but clunky and slow and can’t muster the fluidity and speed of motion a modern theatrical rigging automation system can deliver on Broadway.

Technically speaking, this show looks to me like it could have been holding its own in 2009. That might be ok if it was in service of a truly world-class and imaginative design, but err.. well… 🤷‍♂️
 
B

BHF

Active Member
Squishy said:
Imagineering will fill the crowd with androids to make sure it doesn't look empty.
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I find this offensive and misleading. I am one of the real humans intending on seeing this spectacular in person. I am not an android, and wil l enjoy th [[[8/]] default Press esc to stop feed]
10221a.jpg
 
Tom Morrow

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
OSUPhantom said:
People complaining about the pyro literally forget Illuminations had a five minute gap where nothing happened except the globe sailing to the middle of the lagoon and some small fountains.

Revisionist history is wild.
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And yet, Illuminations had much more pyro overall in its 12 minute running time than this does in it's 20+ minutes. Further, those 5 minutes where "nothing happened" in ROE? Well about 15 of the 20 minutes of this show were just watching screens, lights, and articulated arms slowly move around while the ridiculously overproduced soundtrack blares.

OSUPhantom said:
And what is it? You didn’t actually answer my question.

Explain how to a standard guest Illuminations story is better explained than Harmonious
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As a huge ROE lover, admittedly it is true that probably 95% of guests did not grasp the "story" behind it. However, the vast majority got the theme and message, which was very clear: it was a pivotal moment for the history of mankind. We don't know where we're going, but we all know that we must learn from the past, set our differences aside, and unite. (sadly this didn't happen lol)

Harmonious has no overarching theme or message. It sort of hand-waves one via the narration, something about music inspiring people around the world, but it's so forced and ingenuine, and the show itself does absolutely nothing to convey it. Remove that little blurb of narration and the different languages and this is yet another Greatest Hits Clip Show.

OSUPhantom said:
Love Illuminations all you want but letting it stubbornly and childishly blind you from seeing any good in anything else is ridiculous.
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You know what else is good? Ignite! at SeaWorld. No story, no message, but it generates a mood and energy through much simpler tech that Harmonious doesn't even remotely come close to matching.
 
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Tom Morrow

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Sam Magic said:
I have to give Bob Chapek credit. He finally made Epcot a park that kids will enjoy more than adults.

I haven't been to WDW since June of 2008. I went this week to be there for and celebrate the 50th anniversary. I get that this anniversary was meant to be a celebration, but it feels more like a funeral. The most depressing moment for me was watching Harmonious.

I had no expectations heading in. I haven't been deeply involved in the Disney fan community since D23 2019 and I genuinely didn't know what Harmonious would consist of. Understandably, Disney is shifting more towards an IP-centric experience. It's all about moving products and judged on that criteria, Harmonious was a success.

Yet, none of us spend ridiculous amounts of money going to these parks because we like Disney products and are simply fans of a soulless global corporation. We go because these parks--and the experiences they contain--make us feel something. They inspire us and offer us an idea of life as it could be. Harmonious, more than any other change that's happened, showcases that Disney is no longer interested in doing this. Harmonious is the worst thing I've ever watched. It makes me regret coming back to the resort.

The show contains tired songs and lackluster scores. Most of the songs featured do not even have a tie-in with the countries actually in World Showcase. Above all, the show just lacks any real story, pacing, or message. Essential to Disney is storytelling. Harmonious fails to tell us anything, which is why it fails as a Disney show. It looks like Disney, it sounds like Disney, but it isn't Disney.

Perhaps I should've let my visit in 2008 be my last. Things always seem better with nostalgia. Having returned and watched this ghastly replacement for RoE, I now know that the WDW I knew and loved is dead. Maybe it's time to move on and accept that Disney has sold its soul and lived long enough to see itself become the villain.
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Spot on. Posts like this make me hope that the people in charge read the boards. I know they do here and there, but they need to see the deep cuts like this.

Especially this part:
Yet, none of us spend ridiculous amounts of money going to these parks because we like Disney products and are simply fans of a soulless global corporation. We go because these parks--and the experiences they contain--make us feel something. They inspire us and offer us an idea of life as it could be. Harmonious, more than any other change that's happened, showcases that Disney is no longer interested in doing this.
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This is a point that is sadly getting lost under current leadership, and the endless "Disney lifestyler/influencer" types aren't helping. Walt Disney World is special, not because everyone wants to blindly consume the Disney brand. I can't even count how many people I know like myself who in no way endlessly consume Disney media but have always loved the Disney parks.
 
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Figments Friend

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
Tom Morrow said:
If you're talking about what I think you are, the sound mixing seemed very flat to me. Like all layers/channels were pushed to 10 at all times. It felt like overkill to me and I wanted it to be over halfway through.
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Music while the Show runs sounds like a badly mastered CD.
Look up the digital audio issue known as 'brickwalling'.

When I saw the show a couple of nights ago in the Park the thought crossed my mind.
Audio has a overlay harsh 'loudness' to it.
Might have just been my viewing area angle.

-
 
Tom Morrow

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Figments Friend said:
Music while the Show runs sounds like a badly mastered CD.
Look up the digital audio issue known as 'brickwalling'.

When I saw the show a couple of nights ago in the Park the thought crossed my mind.
Audio has a overlay harsh 'loudness' to it.
Might have just been my viewing area angle.

-
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I actually noticed this too. Every element of each track was the same volume. Even some audio clipping. This, combined with the overly busy, noisy, layered nature of the tracks made me almost want to walk away. I thought maybe it was just the speakers in my area and/or it still needing tweaking, but then they've been working on this show for a while now and all that should have been ironed out if it were equipment related.
 
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A

Admiral01

Premium Member
MisterPenguin said:
pssst. and Africa

Japan is hard. Disney stupidly let Ghibli through their fingers. That leaves.... nothing.

Unless... You use Compass of Your Heart. A Menken song written for the popular Disney Japan ride 'Sinbad.' It double as Japanese and 'Arabian' for Morocco. And it fits the theme of a World Showcase show.
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A total aside - I’ve long thought OLC should sponsor the Sinbad Storybook Voyage ride in the Japan pavilion which would be a) the best ride in World Showcase and b) an incredible way to advertise Tokyo DisneySea and the TDR as a whole.
 
Sir_Cliff

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
techgeek said:
I think that one of my biggest problems is that there is no creatively in the tech.

Sure, it’s got a lot of things to look at, but it’s not breaking any new ground or reimagining the way the tech is used. There no inferno barge, no Earth barge opening up to reveal a hidden torch, no hundreds of points of light scattered across the water. Of course RoE was showing its age, but in 1999 some of the things that it did had simply never been done before.

There’s nothing in Harmonious that a typical large concert tour hasn’t been doing for the last 10+ years when it comes to screens and lights, and many of them have honestly done it better or ‘invented’ the iconography in the first place. U2 was doing huge LED screens on tour in 1997. Automated lighting has been around since the 1980s. The water rig pales compared to World of Color’s installation thats now 10 years old. The articulating truss arms are huge, but clunky and slow and can’t muster the fluidity and speed of motion a modern theatrical rigging automation system can deliver on Broadway.

Technically speaking, this show looks to me like it could have been holding its own in 2009. That might be ok if it was in service of a truly world-class and imaginative design, but err.. well… 🤷‍♂️
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I am glad to hear that the effect in person is impressive, but I have the exact same thought about the lack of creativity in their choice and use of the tech.

It looks to me like a bunch of concert equipment installed in the middle of the park that then does would you would expect concert equipment to do during the show. I don't really see any huge surprises there. As @TrojanUSC said, what has made other Disney shows so impressive is how the designers created shows that integrated into and used the environments of the parks. This necessitated creatively resolving the problems involved with developing something that would wow guests but not ruin the themed environment when it was not running. I'm sure Fantasmic at DL would be more technically impressive if they could permanently install giant screens and lighting rigs around Rivers of America, for example, but the overall result would be far less impressive than the water screens and other elements that pop out of the landscape.

Sticking a bunch of giant screens and lighting rigs in the middle of the lagoon just seems a particularly uncreative way of resolving how to develop a successor to Illuminations. It suggests show designers focussing on the show they wanted to create and largely ignoring any concern about how it could be physically integrated into the park. I also find the tech very inelegant if not ugly and, again, I don't know what it does that is particularly new or unexpected. It's also poorly conceived in terms of being viewable from around the lagoon.
 
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SorcererDonald16

SorcererDonald16

Well-Known Member
Tom Morrow said:
Spot on. Posts like this make me hope that the people in charge read the boards. I know they do here and there, but they need to see the deep cuts like this.

Especially this part:


This is a point that is sadly getting lost under current leadership, and the endless "Disney lifestyler/influencer" types aren't helping. Walt Disney World is special, not because everyone wants to blindly consume the Disney brand. I can't even count how many people I know like myself who in no way endlessly consume Disney media but have always loved the Disney parks.
Click to expand...

At this point, in some respects TPTB are turning the parks in to a real-life version of WALL-E. You will be mindlessly shuttled from one area to another. You will have screens in front of your face at all times that will “address” all of your needs. You will want, like, and buy whatever Disney tells you is on trend to buy, and you will thank them for it. Nothing is subtle or involves metaphors anymore, because that would require thinking about anything other than *the product* they want you to buy.

The influencer/Instagram/TikTok crowd has further enabled this, and Disney execs are giddily exploiting it. Don’t like it? Well, the current TPTB’s response seems to be the chorus of Weird Al’s parody version of the song “Everything You Know is Wrong!” :cautious:

What they are foolishly forgetting is that Disney has very much been a generational fandom at its core. Parks included. Children with Disney parks loving parents grow up and pass the tradition on to their own children, and the circle continues. Memories have driven a lot of Disney nostalgia, and they drive them long term. Hollow things, be they attractions, shows, or merchandise, drive social media attention and like and retweets, not anything long lasting. They will get Disney short term gains, but long term losses.

Or maybe I am too optimistic and social media driven things will ultimately win the day over quality, and Disney will keep barreling down this road with no problems. Speaking for myself, I have loved WDW my whole life. My parents loved it before I was born and passed that on to me. I have been less than pleased with a lot of the changes in recent years, but Harmonious in particular really feels like the end of the rope for me and what I am willing to put up with. I had the pleasure of seeing ROE on a 9/11 anniversary, and it was one of the more emotional and memorable vacation experiences in my life. It meant something. I don’t just want sing-alongs and endless blatant adverts for their movies in Epcot, I want to be inspired and learn something about the greater world and about myself (as much as a theme park can foster that). Clearly I am apparently no longer the kind of guest they want at their parks, so my thought now is why should I keep going or later down the road pass the tradition on to my own child or children? If I’m not alone in that thought, they could be in for a world of hurt financially down the road.
 
bcoachable

bcoachable

Well-Known Member
techgeek said:
I think that one of my biggest problems is that there is no creatively in the tech.

Sure, it’s got a lot of things to look at, but it’s not breaking any new ground or reimagining the way the tech is used. There no inferno barge, no Earth barge opening up to reveal a hidden torch, no hundreds of points of light scattered across the water. Of course RoE was showing its age, but in 1999 some of the things that it did had simply never been done before.

There’s nothing in Harmonious that a typical large concert tour hasn’t been doing for the last 10+ years when it comes to screens and lights, and many of them have honestly done it better or ‘invented’ the iconography in the first place. U2 was doing huge LED screens on tour in 1997. Automated lighting has been around since the 1980s. The water rig pales compared to World of Color’s installation thats now 10 years old. The articulating truss arms are huge, but clunky and slow and can’t muster the fluidity and speed of motion a modern theatrical rigging automation system can deliver on Broadway.

Technically speaking, this show looks to me like it could have been holding its own in 2009. That might be ok if it was in service of a truly world-class and imaginative design, but err.. well… 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
Kudos for the U2 mention
 

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