News Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge (Project 89 - Development near Fort Wilderness)

[Lensman]

They redid OPR to avoid spending enough on amenities at the new DVC as a stand-alone.

We don’t need the fbi to Investigate this one. They have done this at every single DVC since wilderness lodge - the first one.

It makes sense...So you can’t really criticize it too much.
But why in the hell deny it??

Looking for clarification: You think that instead of building amenities at Riviera, for which they can charge-off the build expense as expense when they sell the DVC units, and for which they can charge 100% of the operational expense to the DVC owners as annual dues, they built the new CBR food court partly for the DVCers at their expense and will pay the operational expense out of CBR P&L? That seems slightly backwards but I'd be happy to hear how this is better for TWDC.

Or do you think that the Riviera owners are going to see CBR operational expenses added into their dues, and that Disney Vacation Development subsidized part of the new food court build with their money?

I ask all this because that's the word of mouth about the economics of why adding a DVC onto the (deluxe) Disney Resorts was more lucrative for Disney - because they could charge off operational expenses from their resorts onto the backs of the DVC owners as dues.

And I don't think that's what's happening at Riviera, except to the extent that certain general expenses end up being "shared" to all DVC resorts at WDW, and to the extent that the Riviera station and more generally Skyliner expenses will be charged in part to Riviera owners.

They built a DVC tower in the middle of Caribbean Beach Resort. You are arguing semantics here.

I agree that Riviera was placed right in the middle of CBR, but what specifically are you suggesting is the result? The expense-shifting that I discuss above? Or do you think that by "sprucing up the neighborhood", CBR will go up in price? I agree that CBR prices are likely on the way up, mostly due to Skyliner, and partly due to the new organic facilities. Being "next to" Riviera? Maybe a small bump but I think it will more likely be overwhelmed by the other two effects.

Fine. I give up. This is a dopey thing to argue about. They are sister resorts. I'll just leave it there. They are separate the same way POP and AoA are seperate. The same way Contemporary and BLT are seperate.

I think BLT owners are still charged for some operational expenses of the Contemporary, but I'm not sure which ones ever since they got their own check-in lobby.

The problem is none of those are in fact separate. All star and port were built to be...but they combined staffing and services for costs 15 years ago....the phones at Coronado have been answered at all stars since 2002.

The only “separate” locations where not built by the current management. They’re not even trying to hide how much operations are being schleppted by DVC now. Any belief that’s not how this Caribbean thing will shake out is fool.

It will look new and shiny...but no way in hell they ever build this without the paid for services next door. Same at river country.

Just have to accept the reality and move on.

That's interesting about the phones. So not all the resort phones are directed to a central "switchboard"? I wonder which resorts have common switchboards?

And back to the topic - obviously, the unnamed Nature Resort will share a lot of expenses with its DVC. And I think this is the first all-new build of a combo Resort/DVC. Riviera was the first all-DVC resort since SSR, and I thought we had speculated that it was the last all-DVC we'd see. Interesting.

So is this Nature Resort is the first new resort since AoA and the first new "deluxe" resort since... umm... what? I do remember the speculation that Disney wouldn't build another deluxe resort, so I wonder what the thinking was that led to this decision? At least it does still leave open the hypothesis that Disney wouldn't build another resort without a DVC component. Under the theory that DVC was the future of resorts - or at least the ability to charge-off a portion of operational expenses onto the owners via dues.

 

[Missing20K]

It is a Lumion rendering in all likelihood generated from the project’s Revit model, in other words it’s blueprints.

I think it might be SketchUp in all honesty. Lumion plays well with SketchUp. If it were a Revit model I would expect to see a bit more detail, particularly at the edges of the roofs. Also creating that Portico/Porte Cochere (cause everyone likes to be so fancy) in Revit would be a pain compared to SketchUp. Actually it could even be a mismash of products, I've done it many times. Parts of it are Revit, parts are SketchUp, parts are 3DSMax. Then plug it all into 3DS and Vray/Corona/renderer of choice/China. Sorry wayyyy off topic.

That's sort of my point. Those tools are trash at conveying texture. They probably had three different options for "stone," and none of them were particularly great.

This is wrong. In many, many ways. No offense intended, but it's just flat out incorrect.

Lumion has lots of options that are highly customizable.

Correct. Not to mention Post Production, of which they obviously have a poor grasp.

They should have built Bioshere 3.0 if they wanted a "nature" inspired resort. It could have been a fully immersive experience just like the new Star Wars Resort.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

@Lensman

Sorry...I’d quote you...but your post is a mile long and it would take me a while to delete it.

First, the wilderness combo is the third of that type - aulani (different on most levels) and boardwalk. Saratoga was not a new build as they repurpose most of the central area.

As to my take on amentities.

DVC won’t spend a dime over the minimum on daily operations costs. So while they are adding some services to the new Grenada tower...or whatever it is...I think we are looking on an extension of pattern for DVC that is gonna underwhelm.

Really bland/bad offerings. Minimal...by what we have learned to like about the hotels.
And the reason that will fly is that Caribbean is right there...and the gondolas.

So a lounge...a restaurant in the mold of the wave or Olivia’s or turf club. A small quickserve with standards...contempo cafe.

Not exactly “luxury”.

In fact...only kidani added something of value to the combined location...

Bay lake didn’t...Polynesian didn’t...Grand Floridian literally didn’t. Beach club no....
Saratoga is minimal.

Some went down...contemporary food and recreation was far better before the pre DVC “enhancements”

Actually...poly did Ok with Trader Sam’s a quickserve and the redo of captain cooks. I’ll give them that.

Wilderness was really underwhelming...the new DVC pool is as bland as they can...the waterfront place is kinda a mess...and now they took out the one place for quality...

I’m all for revisiting this when we get some firm ideas of amenities and offerings...but I can’t support “they’re separate” as it stands now. Go with the pattern. An “original” DVC has not been built in WDW since boardwalk...they’re all attachments or returbs of rooms they can’t sell.

Rooms they can’t sell is really interesting on the new bay lake site...I’m very curious there.

 

[Ripken10]

I find it interesting that so many say this first rendering of the resort doesn't look nature inspired. We live in a community that looks inspired this. Its a community sold as being for those that want to live in a nature setting. No stores, no gas stations, built around a lake with nature trails taking you everywhere (I think we are over 37 miles of trails now). There is more mileage on trails then roads. This architecture in the rendering would fit in perfectly here. Maybe that's why I don't see the fault so many here see.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I find it interesting that so many say this first rendering of the resort doesn't look nature inspired. We live in a community that looks inspired this. Its a community sold as being for those that want to live in a nature setting. No stores, no gas stations, built around a lake with nature trails taking you everywhere (I think we are over 37 miles of trails now). There is more mileage on trails then roads. This architecture in the rendering would fit in perfectly here. Maybe that's why I don't see the fault so many here see.

Is your community actually designed with its specific site in mind or is it just stone and wood finishes to look “natural”?

 

[Ripken10]

Is your community actually designed with its specific site in mind or is it just stone and wood finishes to look “natural”?

Yes, it is designed with the site in mind. It has extremely strict HOA rules to keep it that way. They don't allow sidewalks (except in one outlying area), and every nearly every yard is separated by a piece of land that is meant for walking for the community (backyards mostly). It is built around a series of lakes. Each area has its own set of rules on the architecture it must follow. Why we fell in love with it. At first I was hesitant moving here, but as I walked the trails and lakes, it brought back a feeling of "home", as that is the type of area I grew up in as a kid. That could be what this style (the rendering) is inspired by. Communities like this. I have seen others like this as well. Not every "nature inspired" communities look the same, obviously, but like I said, it almost looks like this rendering was for something being built here.

As a side note: everybody in our community cries every time trees are cut down for a new house or area. They cry bloody murder, as it's taking away from the trees that make us what we are. IN the end, the new house or area fits in pretty darn well everytime, it's just funny how they have to cut down what we stand for so more people can live in it. We are approaching if not past 10,000 people now in our little community that doesn't even have our own fire department or post office. There are some that want that to change, but I like it the way we are. NOthing lasts forever though.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes, it is designed with the site in mind. It has extremely strict HOA rules to keep it that way. They don't allow sidewalks (except in one outlying area), and every nearly every yard is separated by a piece of land that is meant for walking for the community (backyards mostly). It is built around a series of lakes. Each area has its own set of rules on the architecture it must follow. Why we fell in love with it. At first I was hesitant moving here, but as I walked the trails and lakes, it brought back a feeling of "home", as that is the type of area I grew up in as a kid. That could be what this style (the rendering) is inspired by. Communities like this. I have seen others like this as well. Not every "nature inspired" communities look the same, obviously, but like I said, it almost looks like this rendering was for something being built here.

As a side note: everybody in our community cries every time trees are cut down for a new house or area. They cry bloody murder, as it's taking away from the trees that make us what we are. IN the end, the new house or area fits in pretty darn well everytime, it's just funny how they have to cut down what we stand for so more people can live in it. We are approaching if not past 10,000 people now in our little community that doesn't even have our own fire department or post office. There are some that want that to change, but I like it the way we are. NOthing lasts forever though.

That really doesn’t say anything about the architecture actually responding to the site. Lots of trees in the area and gluing stone and wood to the walls doesn’t make something site specific and truly nature inspired, just an imitation of something else that was inspired by nature at its specific place. That’s the issue here.

 

[Jambo Joe]

Can we try for some balance here - it’s a single illustration of one feature of a future resort. The idea is good. The location is good. The marketing copy speaks of surprising accommodation choices. They are replacing the rotting into the ground River Country area with something new. Give it a chance.

Now if you want to argue where they plan to put all these new people in the existing parks - have at it!

 

[jt04]

Can we try for some balance here - it’s a single illustration of one feature of a future resort. The idea is good. The location is good. The marketing copy speaks of surprising accommodation choices. They are replacing the rotting into the ground River Country area with something new. Give it a chance.

Now if you want to argue where they plan to put all these new people in the existing parks - have at it!

Fast forward to 2021.....

Once upon a time Judy and Nick built a town for animal toons that was inspired by the cities of Zootopia. It became very very popular with the humans.

Many of the humans liked staying at the nature inspired resort on Bay Lake because it was so amazing.

 

[xdan0920]

Fast forward to 2021.....

Once upon a time Judy and Nick built a town for animal toons that was inspired by the cities of Zootopia. It became very very popular with the humans.

Many of the humans liked staying at the nature inspired resort on Bay Lake because it was so amazing.

Oh JT you dog you. A zootopia themed resort on Bay Lake.

If anyone can't appreciate JT, then I feel bad for you.

 

[Kingtut]

Can we try for some balance here - it’s a single illustration of one feature of a future resort. The idea is good. The location is good. The marketing copy speaks of surprising accommodation choices. They are replacing the rotting into the ground River Country area with something new. Give it a chance.

Now if you want to argue where they plan to put all these new people in the existing parks - have at it!

Don't worry we can fit you all in on this gondola car

 

[Dr.GrantSeeker]

So now that this resort has officially been announced, do we have any knowledge of the impact it is going to have on the campgrounds? Mainly Pioneer Hall, HDDMR and the Settlement area. @marni1971

 

[marni1971]

So now that this resort has officially been announced, do we have any knowledge of the impact it is going to have on the campgrounds? Mainly Pioneer Hall, HDDMR and the Settlement area. @marni1971

Pioneer Hall could be reconstructed.

 

[space42]

Pioneer Hall could be reconstructed.

Also moved , correct? What about the marina and ranch? These facilities will be closer to the new hotel in their current configuration than Ft. Wilderness.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Hoop Dee Doo is going to be replaced by an Opry for Fancy Folk.

 

[Master Yoda]

Hoop Dee Doo is going to be replaced by an Opry for Fancy Folk.

I know you jest, but....

Phantom of the Country Opera.

 

[Nextinline]

The architecture is an embarrassment to Disney's name. Riviera, Coronado Springs, the scrapped Anaheim hotel, new Swan and Dolphin, and now this? Who can be inspired by this?

For those who are in favor of the design, I envy the joy you must experience when new strip malls and apartment complexes are built!

 

[Master Yoda]

The architecture is an embarrassment to Disney's name. Riviera, Coronado Springs, the scrapped Anaheim hotel, new Swan and Dolphin, and now this? Who can be inspired by this?

For those who are in favor of the design, I envy the joy you must experience when new strip malls and apartment complexes are built!

Can you suggest an alternative?

 

[Nextinline]

Can you suggest an alternative?

There are plenty of better alternatives. In fact, I find it hard to have worse ideas than what they propose.

Riviera: Inspired by the French Riviera and also a great tie-in to the Caribbean Beach sister resort (or whatever it was decided to be).

Coronado: I would think something like Don Cesar hotel that has Moorish and Spanish architecture style while still being a larger hotel. Also consider that I don't agree with the tower hotels to begin with, but if they must do it, at least do it with taste. We're getting a Vegas trip tower with modern furnishings. I'm not being fooled into thinking there are Moorish undertones.

Anaheim: Mid-century inspired. Mid-century is extremely popular now that it's had time to age a little. Disneyland's history is steeped in mid-century design as is southern California. They already tried to shoehorn mid-century into the existing Disneyland Hotel. Might as well have went for in on this one. Luckily, it will never happen.

Swan and Dolphin: While we can mostly admit that the Swan and Dolphin are horrible, they're actually some of the best examples of post-modern architecture in the US. They're already committed, double down and add a third post-modern structure.

New Nature Resort: Do anything other than this! Every new apartment complex, office complex, or university building constructed over the past 5 years has looked identical to this! This is Disney Resort's version of Primeval whirl. It is an off-the-shelf tragedy. If you want specific examples for alternatives specifically on this resort I can provide some thoughts, but the list is huge.

 

[trainplane3]

Pioneer Hall could be reconstructed.

I'll literally flip a table if Hoop doesn't return.