News Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge (Project 89 - Development near Fort Wilderness)

[peter11435]

So where you getting your quixkserve mickey waffle and your mouseboat?

...really...really need to just drop the curtain here.

“Moderate” DVC with a $190 a point but in. And a ski lift.

I’m not judging the complete product/appeal...just simply acknowledging this is only gonna go one way.

Riviera will have everything necessary for a stand-alone Resort. Including its own quick service, table service, pool, lounge, etc. Guests will not need to share facilities with CBR.

 

[peter11435]

They built a DVC tower in the middle of Caribbean Beach Resort. You are arguing semantics here. It's tiring.

You are doing the same thing. They built a DVC tower in the middle of what once was CBR. Rivera is no longer CBR.

 

[xdan0920]

You are doing the same thing. They built a DVC tower in the middle of what once was CBR. Rivera is no longer CBR.

Fine. I give up. This is a dopey thing to argue about. They are sister resorts. I'll just leave it there. They are separate the same way POP and AoA are seperate. The same way Contemporary and BLT are seperate.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Fine. I give up. This is a dopey thing to argue about. They are sister resorts. I'll just leave it there. They are separate the same way POP and AoA are seperate. The same way Contemporary and BLT are seperate.

Agree with some of these, disagree with others.

Not really separate at all:
Boardwalk Inn and Boardwalk Villas
The Campsites at Fort Wilderness and The Cabins at Fort Wilderness
Animal Kingdom Lodge and Animal Kingdom Villas - Jambo House
Beach Club Resort and Beach Club Villas
Wilderness Lodge and Copper Creek Villas
Polynesian Village and Polynesian Villas and Bungalows

Moderately separate:
All Star Movies, All Star Music, All Star Sports
Animal Kingdom Lodge and Animal Kingdom Villas - Kidani Village
Wilderness Lodge and Boulder Ridge Villas
Contemporary Resort and Bay Lake Tower
Grand Floridian and Villas at Grand Floridian
Saratoga Springs and Treehouse Villas

Totally separate:
Port Orleans Riverside and Port Orleans French Quarter
Art of Animation and Pop Century

The new resort strikes me as "not really separate at all," while Riviera strikes me as "moderately separate."

 

[peter11435]

Fine. I give up. This is a dopey thing to argue about. They are sister resorts. I'll just leave it there. They are separate the same way POP and AoA are seperate. The same way Contemporary and BLT are seperate.

They are seperate resorts like Pop and AoA and like Poly and GF. Contemporary and BLT are not a valid comparison because BLT is part of the Contemporary.

This really isn’t that hard.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Riviera will have everything necessary for a stand-alone Resort. Including its own quick service, table service, pool, lounge, etc. Guests will not need to share facilities with CBR.

I have no confidence that the amenities will be up to standard...but we will have to judged. DVC cuts costs on amenities and they have no reason to break that pattern.

I’m expecting paddock grill - the wave - top of the world type stuff. In a take it or leave it...i’m leaving it.

You are doing the same thing. They built a DVC tower in the middle of what once was CBR. Rivera is no longer CBR.

That is complete semantics. They demolished 1/5 of the original Caribbean and building inside the original bus loop! Do you need me to take you on a tour?

Also consider where they put that gondola station...there is absolutely no way you can sell that they somehow segregated it. The DVCers (pity...they are gonna get robbed on the point costs) will be streaming to OPR for the chicken.

Rookie school here.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

“Moderate” DVC with a $190 a point buy in.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Agree with some of these, disagree with others.

Not really separate at all:
Boardwalk Inn and Boardwalk Villas
The Campsites at Fort Wilderness and The Cabins at Fort Wilderness
Animal Kingdom Lodge and Animal Kingdom Villas - Jambo House
Beach Club Resort and Beach Club Villas
Wilderness Lodge and Copper Creek Villas
Polynesian Village and Polynesian Villas and Bungalows

Moderately separate:
All Star Movies, All Star Music, All Star Sports
Animal Kingdom Lodge and Animal Kingdom Villas - Kidani Village
Wilderness Lodge and Boulder Ridge Villas
Contemporary Resort and Bay Lake Tower
Grand Floridian and Villas at Grand Floridian
Saratoga Springs and Treehouse Villas

Totally separate:
Port Orleans Riverside and Port Orleans French Quarter
Art of Animation and Pop Century

The new resort strikes me as "not really separate at all," while Riviera strikes me as "moderately separate."

The problem is none of those are in fact separate. All star and port were built to be...but they combined staffing and services for costs 15 years ago....the phones at Coronado have been answered at all stars since 2002.

The only “separate” locations where not built by the current management. They’re not even trying to hide how much operations are being schleppted by DVC now. Any belief that’s not how this Caribbean thing will shake out is fool.

It will look new and shiny...but no way in hell they ever build this without the paid for services next door. Same at river country.

Just have to accept the reality and move on.

 

[xdan0920]

They are seperate resorts like Pop and AoA and like Poly and GF. Contemporary and BLT are not a valid comparison because BLT is part of the Contemporary.

This really isn’t that hard.

You’re right. It’s not.

 

[nickys]

Is that like the “nothing to see here” bit?

There Will be a “whole” 75 foot buffer between those “separate places”

I know Caribbean. And I have a good nose for crap.

Poly and GF are next door to each other. They’re not the same resort.

Riviera will have all it’s own facilities and they won’t be shared with CBR. It is a stand-alone DVC Resort, like SSR and OKW.

This new one is not, it’s like the Beach Club and the villas, or GF, or Poly ........

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The problem is none of those are in fact separate. All star and port were built to be...but they combined staffing and services for costs 15 years ago....the phones at Coronado have been answered at all stars since 2002.

The only “separate” locations where not built by the current management. They’re not even trying to hide how much operations are being schleppted by DVC now. Any belief that’s not how this Caribbean thing will shake out is fool.

It will look new and shiny...but no way in hell they ever build this without the paid for services next door. Same at river country.

Just have to accept the reality and move on.

I'm over my skis on this, but isn't Florida timeshare law very strict and highly audited? I don't think what you're describing is technically possible. I believe all parties need to be compensated behind the scenes so that everyone is "made whole" and nobody is getting a free ride.

 

[peter11435]

I have no confidence that the amenities will be up to standard...but we will have to judged. DVC cuts costs on amenities and they have no reason to break that pattern.

I’m expecting paddock grill - the wave - top of the world type stuff. In a take it or leave it...i’m leaving it.


That is complete semantics. They demolished 1/5 of the original Caribbean and building inside the original bus loop! Do you need me to take you on a tour?

Also consider where they put that gondola station...there is absolutely no way you can sell that they somehow segregated it. The DVCers (pity...they are gonna get robbed on the point costs) will be streaming to OPR for the chicken.

Rookie school here.

I don’t need a tour. I know the property very well. What the land used to be is not relevant to what it will be in the future.

We can argue the quality of the amenities later, right now that’s just you moving the goal post.

Riviera guests won’t need to go to OPR for their chicken or Mickey Waffles.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It's no more of stretch than the people trying to compare it to a Springhill Suites. I'd argue it's far less of one.

Using the contrast of the linear qualities of mid-century modern against the natural backdrop of nature/wilderness is something that has been done tastefully with great success for decades now and made famous here by Wright. That appears to be what they're going for here. Obviously they have a challenge of making large hotel buildings hold their intended theme/character without sacrificing functionality, but they will have full autonomy to paint the surrounding canvas to make the theme work. This is why the Polynesian just works, even without being anything interesting from an architectural standpoint. Ditto for AKL.

Honestly, I do understand the apprehension around here after several different business conference-style hotels in a row (Coronado addition, Riviera, Swan/Dolphin expansion). I think this one deserves a chance, though.

Wright was not contrasting the linearity of mid-century modern architecture against a natural backdrop. Not even close. Wright was responding to specific sites, not contrasting against them. So much of his work is linear because it is relating to the linearity of the site. He did not do angled roofs to be hip or contrast with nature, but as a direct response to the local conditions. He often used local stones and woods as part of complimenting nature. Wright called his style “organic” because it was very site specific and saw himself as opposed to other Modernists like Le Corbusier and Meis whose work he viewed as having a complete disregard for site.

 

[peter11435]

You’re right. It’s not.

That’s why I’m surprised you’re having such a tough time with it.

 

[Missing20K]

This is not a Modern design. It is not a Mid-century Modern design. It's contemporary hotel design.

There are slight influences from the Arts and Crafts movement (Wright, Greene and Greene, Phillip Webb) but they are minimal and for the most part, poorly executed.

Also Wright did so much more than the Prairie houses and the Usonian houses that are really his only designs that speak to the language this building is attempting to utilize.

Fallingwater is a beast unto itself that is so far from this building we could have a weekend conference about it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Poly and GF are next door to each other. They’re not the same resort.

Riviera will have all it’s own facilities and they won’t be shared with CBR. It is a stand-alone DVC Resort, like SSR and OKW.

This new one is not, it’s like the Beach Club and the villas, or GF, or Poly ........

I don’t need a tour. I know the property very well. What the land used to be is not relevant to what it will be in the future.

We can argue the quality of the amenities later, right now that’s just you moving the goal post.

Riviera guests won’t need to go to OPR for their chicken or Mickey Waffles.

The proof is gonna be in the pudding here...the stance it’s “different” is based on embankment and gate placement. That doesn’t pass the sniff test.

My gut is that this will be kinda a hoax like bay lake...with far more pretense.

And you really do need the tour...because you can’t honestly say anything built on Barbados 16 and protruding into the lake is “separate” from Martinique 21. Time and space are not a matter of of opinion

 

[Missing20K]

Wright was not contrasting the linearity of mid-century modern architecture against a natural backdrop. Not even close. Wright was responding to specific sites, not contrasting against them. So much of his work is linear because it is relating to the linearity of the site. He did not do angled roofs to be hip or contrast with nature, but as a direct response to the local conditions. He often used local stones and woods as part of complimenting nature. Wright called his style “organic” because it was very site specific and saw himself as opposed to other Modernists like Le Corbusier and Miss whose work he viewed as having a complete disregard for site.

Well said! I'm terribly sorry I even brought his name into the conversation but my sarcasm went straight over everyone's head.

He's quite literally rolling in his grave as people compare his work to this thing.

 

[peter11435]

And you really do need the tour...because you can’t honestly say anything built on Barbados 16 and protruding into the lake is “separate” from Martinique 21. Time and space are not a matter of of opinion

They are close. But proximity does not mean they are the same. The swan and dolphin tower of the yacht club and boardwalk, but they are seperate.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Riviera guests won’t need to go to OPR for their chicken or Mickey Waffles.

They will be driven by deisgn and the self preservation of their stomachs....can’t wait to see that inventive “riveria quickserve”....

Have they guaranteed that by the way? Or are we still in “details to emerge” mode?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They are close. But proximity does not mean they are the same. The swan and dolphin tower of the yacht club and boardwalk, but they are seperate.

You’re comparing the original construction of yacht and boardwalk to this? Problem is that management has given no one any reason to believe that. You just have to be objective about that based on the historical record.