News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Isamar]

I’d still like to see a prior contract for comparison purposes. I probably won’t find one but I’ll post here if I do.

 

[Isamar]

To clarify, is it all District employees that are losing their passes?

Yes, based on what the district has said so far, including an email to employees.

 

[lazyboy97o]

To clarify, is it all District employees that are losing their passes?

Yes, all District employees. The firefighters are just the ones willing to speak out openly.

 

[TtocsMc]

I don't see this happening, but Disney could make themselves out to look like the heroes in this situation by offering a special AP to the firefighters and all first responders, really. I thought they did this already, but can't seem to find anything. Maybe they did in the past. Regardless, I think they should add a special discount for them.

And what about the other district employees that provide service to their property and guests, as well as all of the retired employees who gave 30+ years of service with the understanding that they and their families would have a life pass?

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

Again. You are missing my point. It is a luxury “perk/benefit”. Im not saying its okay for them to lose it etc. but to say its life altering to me is non sense. Losing medical or increased cost where someone needs ro choose between paying rent/food/gas etc vs medical. Thats life altering not having to decide whether one goes to Disney parks…

If you count on the passes as part of your total compensation, I don't think you can label it "luxury". That is like saying company sponsored daycare is luxury then have it taken from you.

 

[Splash4eva]

If you count on the passes as part of your total compensation, I don't think you can label it "luxury". That is like saying company sponsored daycare is luxury then have it taken from you.

Honestly. Im done going back and forth. If you wanna say day care is compared to theme park tickets. Its a convo thats pointless. You can “rely” on it all you want but going to a theme park is Not a necessity. Good luck to all with this continuing discussion.

 

[irishbanshee315]

No politics, please. (I know this topic political in origin, but there doesn't need to be any comments about parties and their platforms)

As I have issues with both parties I won't comment on them. My issue is why are we paying the current oversight administrator 400k a yr. Seriously that is a waste of taxpayer monet.

 

[irishbanshee315]

Honestly. Im done going back and forth. If you wanna say day care is compared to theme park tickets. Its a convo thats pointless. You can “rely” on it all you want but going to a theme park is Not a necessity. Good luck to all with this continuing discussion.

Neither is Daycare. Both parents chose to work the same schedule. Parents can work opposite schedules. Better yet one parent stay home to raise their children.

 

[Isamar]

I’d still like to see a prior contract for comparison purposes. I probably won’t find one but I’ll post here if I do.

Update: I found a contract for 2017-2018 and it included the same exclusion of Disney benefits from the definition of “Prevailing Rights”.

 

[sedati]

If the firefighters got their new contract, and Disney offered to compensate them for their lost passes with discounts, they'd sort of get to have their cake and eat it, too, which is maybe not the message Disney wants to send. The situation feels like "You made your bed, now lie in it." If I were Disney, I'd want them to feel the sting of their hasty decision to back CFTOD, assuming that they would be better to work with than RCID. If they start to feel that CFTOD is worse to deal with than RCID was, that works in Disney's favor. In addition, I'm not sure Disney would offer a discount large enough to compensate for the lost benefit, since it would likely have to be offered to all firefighters, not just RCFD to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

Disney can sign them all up for the Jelly of the Month Club. They chose “Oversight” over “Improvement” so they shouldn’t be surprised by the outcome.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Disney was not and still is not their employer.


RCID/CFTOD employees are not Disney park workers and do not work for any department that is part of Disney.


That it was a better value in their compensation package than other stuff is a reason to be mad about it. It is clearly a reduction in pay. A reduction by CFTOD not by Disney.

If Disney were to directly give this to the CFTOD employees, it would be a gift. It's certainly not compensation or benefits, since none of those people work for Disney. This is the scenario that was being discussed.

The former structure was a RCID employee benefit paid for by RCID not by Disney. A program available to many companies to purchase from Disney. A program that likely cost less when purchased this way than if individuals purchased it. That made it a win-win for RCID and the employees. RCID spent less on the benefit than the value employees gained through the program than RCID would need to spend to give employees enough direct cash to purchase the same value on their own.

Eliminating the benefit, or replacing it with something of less value is a compensation reduction. It should be viewed as a compensation reduction by employees and they can react however they want based on that information. If the difference in value is substantial to an employee they'll react one way, if it's minimal, they're react a different way.


There's no way for Disney to make this up and return the employees back to the higher compensation level, since they are not employees of Disney. There's all kinds of reasons Disney couldn't make direct payments to government employees.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood. I thought that this whole thing if pushed far enough would encompass all of the group on what essentially is Disney property. Lets not be children and not believe that RCID was formed and governed by the company that they were established to support, WDW and no one else. They never were legalized employees of Disney but we all know where the money was coming from that supported RCID. So if you say that one group, Disney or not, is not allowed to give that particular perk to RCID than that will surely leach out to the WDW/Disney employee pool. And even beyond to any employer in the state that offers no cost perks to employee's. It is much bigger than just CFTOD.

And for the sake of more clarity I will happily say that I know that the Employees of RCID were not employees of Disney. As long as we are playing Ostridge here and burying our heads in the sand, they are completely separate and Disney NEVER had any influence over the management of RCID. Even though in the business world so many companies have subsidiaries that are legally formed as independent but you can believe the Papa is watching over them closely.

 

[Goofyernmost]

It's a cash equivalent, and at the going rate of tickets it adds up quickly. 2 adult and 2 child Incredipasses are almost $6000. But the Disney Main Entrance Pass also allows for the inclusion of a Grandparent, a kid's friend, a visiting cousin, etc. Disney charges between $184-$247 per 1-day park hopper. So another $1K for every 5ish visits you might bring someone else. When you are making $50K a year a $7000 admission benefit is the equivalent of 14% of your salary, tax free. For a middle class, blue-collar worker being able to make that happen for your family? Don't speak for them and say it's not life altering.

So do you think that if Disney stopped giving that out that they pay enough that employees can afford to actually go there for fun. Those numbers are quite impressive when you figure that they probably go often which they wouldn't if they had to pay those prices. Besides the way it worked was the same as what an AP would cost and in the grand scheme of thing that wouldn't amount to a hill of beans by the time Disney got through with the accounting for it.

 

[LAKid53]

True, mainly because the benefit was probably provided pre-tax or perhaps even included as a perk that would exclude it from being taxed.

Such benefits are not pre-tax. The IRC is pretty specific on what employer benefits are pre-tax: health insurance, government retirement plans such as a 457(b) or 403(b).

 

[LAKid53]

Yea, there was NO conflicts of interest between RCID and WDW

 

[LAKid53]

True, mainly because the benefit was probably provided pre-tax or perhaps even included as a perk that would exclude it from being taxed.


By most statutes, a discount does not equal a gift.
According to the US Dept of Labor:

Gifts​

What Is a Gift? - 5 C.F.R. § 2635.203(b) and (c)
A gift is anything that has monetary value that you obtain for less than “market value.” The gift might be tangible or intangible. A gift may include, but is not limited to, a gratuity, favor, discount, cash, gift certificate, gift card, entertainment, hospitality, loan, forbearance, or other item having monetary value. It also applies to services, training, transportation, travel, lodging, and meals. See 5 C.F.R. § 2635.203(b).

Exclusions: Some Things Are Not Gifts

Some items are excluded from the definition of gift, and you may accept them pursuant to certain specific regulatory exclusions.

• Modest items of food and non-alcoholic refreshments such as soft drinks, coffee, and donuts, not offered as part of a meal.
• Greeting cards and items of little intrinsic value such as plaques, certificates, or trophies, which are intended primarily for presentation.
• Prizes in contests open to the general public.
• Commercial discounts available to the general public or to all Government employees.
• Commercial loans, pensions, and similar benefits on terms available to the general public.
• Anything for which you pay fair market value.
• Anything that is paid for by the Government.
• Free attendance provided by the sponsor of an event to which you have been assigned to present information on behalf of the agency.

Discounts and similar benefits that are offered to the public, other groups that you belong to, or to all Government employees.

This exception includes favorable rates offered to all Federal employees even when you are off duty. It also includes favorable rates and commercial discounts offered to members of a group or class in which membership is unrelated to Federal employment.



As I mentioned before, MANY companies (theme parks, hotels, phone companies, etc.) already offer such discounts to government, military, first reponders, etc. It's not a violation.

Hotels, rental car companies, Amtrak. etc., offer discounts to government employees. It is NOT a gift under the IRC. Disney used to on tickets back in the 1990s. And rooms, if I remember.

I'm a retired government employee. I never had to claim the discounts I received on hotel rooms for official government travel as unearned income on my 1040.

 

[precision2503]

I asked this on another thread - wouldn't this mean the taxpayers in Orange County would have to foot the bill for all the services that Disney currently pays the cost for? Water, fire protection, etc. ...

Yeesh.

Your giving too much credit to the voting public. Most people just vote party no matter what. Its absolutely insane.

 

[LAKid53]

I suppose many of the firefighters will be upset with their union considering it was this new agreement that paved the way for CFTOD to get rid of the benefits.

Without this agreement, CFTOD would be bound by their prior union contract to continue paying for the park benefits.

I’m sure some firefighters wanted to work for RCID specifically for the park perks so that has to hurt.

I wonder if Disney will give the retired firefighters that had 15 years of service the benefits anyway. Now that they’re retired, I don’t think that would run afoul of any laws.

They could. Just as military gets a discount on tickets. Or, as Florida residents, they can get that discount.

I'm curious about the retired firefighters. When you retire you in essence sign a contract with your employer that spells out what benefits you receive, beyond your pension. If that's the case with the retired firefighters, OCTOD cannot arbitrarily revoke a benefit like the APs, without renegotiating with every single retiree.

 

[lazyboy97o]

They could. Just as military gets a discount on tickets. Or, as Florida residents, they can get that discount.

I'm curious about the retired firefighters. When you retire you in essence sign a contract with your employer that spells out what benefits you receive, beyond your pension. If that's the case with the retired firefighters, OCTOD cannot arbitrarily revoke a benefit like the APs, without renegotiating with every single retiree.

Unless there are clauses similar to the one in the labor agreement that allows them to revoke certain benefits.

 

[LAKid53]

Your giving too much credit to the voting public. Most people just vote party no matter what. Its absolutely insane.

Voters in Orange and Osceola county are very aware the implications of services Disney pays via the assessment being shifted to the counties. First of all, the voters would have to approve the increase in property taxes. I'm sure those county commission meetings would be packed.

I just got my tax bill. I need to see if the millage increased.

 

[LAKid53]

Unless there are clauses similar to the one in the labor agreement that allows them to revoke certain benefits.

But those agreements would have been negotiated by RCID. You can't arbitrarily revoke portions of a contract without the other party suing for breach.

When the state of Florida wanted to recalculate the 3% COLA retirees receive each July, it wanted to not just change for future retirees, but current retirees. Until an employment lawyer informed the Legislature that it would have to renegotiate with every single retiree. And they'd be glad to handle a class section lawsuit with hundreds of thousands of retirees.