News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[LAKid53]

Yea, there was NO conflicts of interest between RCID and WDW

 

[LAKid53]

True, mainly because the benefit was probably provided pre-tax or perhaps even included as a perk that would exclude it from being taxed.


By most statutes, a discount does not equal a gift.
According to the US Dept of Labor:

Gifts​

What Is a Gift? - 5 C.F.R. § 2635.203(b) and (c)
A gift is anything that has monetary value that you obtain for less than “market value.” The gift might be tangible or intangible. A gift may include, but is not limited to, a gratuity, favor, discount, cash, gift certificate, gift card, entertainment, hospitality, loan, forbearance, or other item having monetary value. It also applies to services, training, transportation, travel, lodging, and meals. See 5 C.F.R. § 2635.203(b).

Exclusions: Some Things Are Not Gifts

Some items are excluded from the definition of gift, and you may accept them pursuant to certain specific regulatory exclusions.

• Modest items of food and non-alcoholic refreshments such as soft drinks, coffee, and donuts, not offered as part of a meal.
• Greeting cards and items of little intrinsic value such as plaques, certificates, or trophies, which are intended primarily for presentation.
• Prizes in contests open to the general public.
• Commercial discounts available to the general public or to all Government employees.
• Commercial loans, pensions, and similar benefits on terms available to the general public.
• Anything for which you pay fair market value.
• Anything that is paid for by the Government.
• Free attendance provided by the sponsor of an event to which you have been assigned to present information on behalf of the agency.

Discounts and similar benefits that are offered to the public, other groups that you belong to, or to all Government employees.

This exception includes favorable rates offered to all Federal employees even when you are off duty. It also includes favorable rates and commercial discounts offered to members of a group or class in which membership is unrelated to Federal employment.



As I mentioned before, MANY companies (theme parks, hotels, phone companies, etc.) already offer such discounts to government, military, first reponders, etc. It's not a violation.

Hotels, rental car companies, Amtrak. etc., offer discounts to government employees. It is NOT a gift under the IRC. Disney used to on tickets back in the 1990s. And rooms, if I remember.

I'm a retired government employee. I never had to claim the discounts I received on hotel rooms for official government travel as unearned income on my 1040.

 

[precision2503]

I asked this on another thread - wouldn't this mean the taxpayers in Orange County would have to foot the bill for all the services that Disney currently pays the cost for? Water, fire protection, etc. ...

Yeesh.

Your giving too much credit to the voting public. Most people just vote party no matter what. Its absolutely insane.

 

[LAKid53]

I suppose many of the firefighters will be upset with their union considering it was this new agreement that paved the way for CFTOD to get rid of the benefits.

Without this agreement, CFTOD would be bound by their prior union contract to continue paying for the park benefits.

I’m sure some firefighters wanted to work for RCID specifically for the park perks so that has to hurt.

I wonder if Disney will give the retired firefighters that had 15 years of service the benefits anyway. Now that they’re retired, I don’t think that would run afoul of any laws.

They could. Just as military gets a discount on tickets. Or, as Florida residents, they can get that discount.

I'm curious about the retired firefighters. When you retire you in essence sign a contract with your employer that spells out what benefits you receive, beyond your pension. If that's the case with the retired firefighters, OCTOD cannot arbitrarily revoke a benefit like the APs, without renegotiating with every single retiree.

 

[lazyboy97o]

They could. Just as military gets a discount on tickets. Or, as Florida residents, they can get that discount.

I'm curious about the retired firefighters. When you retire you in essence sign a contract with your employer that spells out what benefits you receive, beyond your pension. If that's the case with the retired firefighters, OCTOD cannot arbitrarily revoke a benefit like the APs, without renegotiating with every single retiree.

Unless there are clauses similar to the one in the labor agreement that allows them to revoke certain benefits.

 

[LAKid53]

Your giving too much credit to the voting public. Most people just vote party no matter what. Its absolutely insane.

Voters in Orange and Osceola county are very aware the implications of services Disney pays via the assessment being shifted to the counties. First of all, the voters would have to approve the increase in property taxes. I'm sure those county commission meetings would be packed.

I just got my tax bill. I need to see if the millage increased.

 

[LAKid53]

Unless there are clauses similar to the one in the labor agreement that allows them to revoke certain benefits.

But those agreements would have been negotiated by RCID. You can't arbitrarily revoke portions of a contract without the other party suing for breach.

When the state of Florida wanted to recalculate the 3% COLA retirees receive each July, it wanted to not just change for future retirees, but current retirees. Until an employment lawyer informed the Legislature that it would have to renegotiate with every single retiree. And they'd be glad to handle a class section lawsuit with hundreds of thousands of retirees.

 

[lazyboy97o]

But those agreements would have been negotiated by RCID. You can't arbitrarily revoke portions of a contract without the other party suing for breach.

When the state of Florida wanted to recalculate the 3% COLA retirees receive each July, it wanted to not just change for future retirees, but current retirees. Until an employment lawyer informed the Legislature that it would have to renegotiate with every single retiree. And they'd be glad to handle a class section lawsuit with hundreds of thousands of retirees.

And RCID had similar language in their labor agreements. Committing to offering a service they didn’t control would have been foolish.

 

[LAKid53]

This benefit cuts clearly hits very close to home. People who work in the district are no longer able to visit the place that they are so much a part of. As some of the speakers said earlier, the only reason they are working there is for the Disney AP benefit.

That's why a lot of retirees move to the area. To work at Disney and get the employee tickets.

 

[maxairmike]

Voters in Orange and Osceola county are very aware the implications of services Disney pays via the assessment being shifted to the counties. First of all, the voters would have to approve the increase in property taxes. I'm sure those county commission meetings would be packed.

I just got my tax bill. I need to see if the millage increased.

Just got my TRIM notice, and they will increase for this year if the budget adjustments are approved. I don’t want to imagine how much bigger it would be if the county had to absorb the District’s responsibilities.

 

[hopemax]

So do you think that if Disney stopped giving that out that they pay enough that employees can afford to actually go there for fun. Those numbers are quite impressive when you figure that they probably go often which they wouldn't if they had to pay those prices. Besides the way it worked was the same as what an AP would cost and in the grand scheme of thing that wouldn't amount to a hill of beans by the time Disney got through with the accounting for it.

From what my Mom would tell me regarding her co-workers, the majority of CMs do not regularly use their admission benefits. The ones that do are predominantly people who came through the college program, or people who were Disney fans before they started working at Disney. Some of these people would be able to justify the purchase of an AP, especially if their spouse had a good salary, but most probably wouldn't. For those that don't know, for regular WDW CMs your benefit for signing in other people is only good for 16 days a year. It's if you have a certain job or 15 years of service you are upgraded to the Silver pass which is unlimited, subject to blockout dates. When my Mom was blue not silver, they paid for my Dad to have an AP, but that was a unicorn among her co-workers.

Of the CMs who don't regularly use them, a large chunk of them never go at all (see the CFTOD mentioning 50%, never using them) and a smaller chunk who go when the grandkids, nieces and nephews, etc. are visiting, and they are very excited that they are able to do this for them. There is also a group in which the employee has kids and does use them, but I would guess this is a smaller group than existed in the 70s, 80s, 90s. Disney has replaced these types of people with people earlier in their careers (no kids), older people who are doing Disney as a second career (kids have grown up), International workers (whose kids may be on an island or different continent) or outsourced that job. In the higher salary jobs, maybe some would pay on their own, but I would guess the majority would not buy admissions. Maybe for somebody's birthday.

You know that Defunctland video about Fastpass+ usage. I'd guess it would mirror Main Entrance Pass usage fairly well too. A small group that is hitting that pass for all it's worth, a middle group that uses what Disney expects (maybe a few days in a row when family visits, and a few single days for things like Epcot event or new ride, for a total like 5-7 days), but the largest group doesn't use it at all. The largest group willing to purchase for fun, are in the smallest group overall, so wouldn't tip the scale.

So that's a long way of saying: No. Most CMs would not pay for fun.

But if you want to see some impressive math... I used APs to make the math smaller. Another way you could look at is, using the blue pass 16 separate 1-day park hoppers. A spouse could bring in 3 guests, and the employee could self-admit for a total of 5 people. 5 people x 16 x $184-$247 = $14,720-$19,720. Lesson: If you are ever fortunate to have access to a Main Entrance Pass, USE IT!

 

[MrPromey]

Yes, all District employees. The firefighters are just the ones willing to speak out openly.

They’re honey badgers.

 

[tissandtully]

From what my Mom would tell me regarding her co-workers, the majority of CMs do not regularly use their admission benefits. The ones that do are predominantly people who came through the college program, or people who were Disney fans before they started working at Disney. Some of these people would be able to justify the purchase of an AP, especially if their spouse had a good salary, but most probably wouldn't. For those that don't know, for regular WDW CMs your benefit for signing in other people is only good for 16 days a year. It's if you have a certain job or 15 years of service you are upgraded to the Silver pass which is unlimited, subject to blockout dates. When my Mom was blue not silver, they paid for my Dad to have an AP, but that was a unicorn among her co-workers.

Of the CMs who don't regularly use them, a large chunk of them never go at all (see the CFTOD mentioning 50%, never using them) and a smaller chunk who go when the grandkids, nieces and nephews, etc. are visiting, and they are very excited that they are able to do this for them. There is also a group in which the employee has kids and does use them, but I would guess this is a smaller group than existed in the 70s, 80s, 90s. Disney has replaced these types of people with people earlier in their careers (no kids), older people who are doing Disney as a second career (kids have grown up), International workers (whose kids may be on an island or different continent) or outsourced that job. In the higher salary jobs, maybe some would pay on their own, but I would guess the majority would not buy admissions. Maybe for somebody's birthday.

You know that Defunctland video about Fastpass+ usage. I'd guess it would mirror Main Entrance Pass usage fairly well too. A small group that is hitting that pass for all it's worth, a middle group that uses what Disney expects (maybe a few days in a row when family visits, and a few single days for things like Epcot event or new ride, for a total like 5-7 days), but the largest group doesn't use it at all. The largest group willing to purchase for fun, are in the smallest group overall, so wouldn't tip the scale.

So that's a long way of saying: No. Most CMs would not pay for fun.

But if you want to see some impressive math... I used APs to make the math smaller. Another way you could look at is, using the blue pass 16 separate 1-day park hoppers. A spouse could bring in 3 guests, and the employee could self-admit for a total of 5 people. 5 people x 16 x $184-$247 = $14,720-$19,720. Lesson: If you are ever fortunate to have access to a Main Entrance Pass, USE IT!

It’s not surprising people don’t wanna go to their workplace when they are not working.

 

[jaklgreen]

GIFT?? When you start a job and your employer offers you a Health Insurance that they partially pay for, is that a gift or a benefit? How about vacation time and sick time spelled out in you job summary, is that a gift of a benefit? What about the matching fund payment for Social Security, is that a gift or a benefit? How about matching funds or more for your contributions to a 401K, is that a gift or a benefit. How about for those that get mileage reimbursements when you provide your vehicle, is that a gift or a benefit? Even if you carried beer bottles up from the basement to the bar and they let you come in when you were off duty with no cover charge, gift or benefit?

Disney park workers no matter what department have always looked at the fact that they could get admission to a park and for a large number of people that was the primary reason that they wanted to work there. It certainly wasn't making them rich. Admission to a theme park is not an expense for Disney, it is a lack of income, but is an expense that doesn't exist for most of the people that already work there. For them it is just a reward they cannot afford for dealing with the increasingly butt hole resembling populace and state government.

I feel like if they promote these gift/benefits to entice you to work there, then it is a benefit. If your manager gives you something as a Christmas present, then that is a gift. As far as I am concerned, the tickets were a benefit because we all know that they included that in their other benefit package description.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

Well to all the former CMs... and Disney employees... did you have a separate taxable benefit listed on your W-2 each year for your main pass perks, etc? I ask, because it can help establish what the 'value' of the perk is, and if Disney offers said participation at the cost of the other party.. there could be some equivalancy.

I don't know the accounting, but I know companies, even gov, are able to give benefits that don't necessarily fall under the gift or taxable benefits stuff. One of the big lines is someone externally giving you something when it comes to ethics policies. But if the employer is paying for the perk and it's for all employees, it's different.

I never got taxed on my perks programs like discounted hotels, gym memberships, etc.

I haven't worked for the Mouse in a number of years now, and never worked for RCID, so I dunno how valuable my input is here, but I can't recall ever seeing anything about my Main Gate on my stubs.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I wonder, if you worked for Costco would you have to pay the membership fee to buy something from there. Would that be charged or considered a gift? How about if you worked for a Car Rental Company and part of the perk program was a large discount to rent a car for yourself or a family member? A gift?

 

[LSLS]

I wonder, if you worked for Costco would you have to pay the membership fee to buy something from there. Would that be charged or considered a gift? How about if you worked for a Car Rental Company and part of the perk program was a large discount to rent a car for yourself or a family member? A gift?

Cotsco employees definitely get a free membership. Maybe I'm naive, but I can't imagine that a company with this many lawyers and accountants legit would have illegal benefits going on. I'd think they long ago figured out that A.)they were totally acceptable and fine with the IRS or B.) had already found the correct loophole to make it acceptable.

 

[ohioguy]

I can see the TV promos now: "Ron DeSantis hates firefighters!" Film at 11.

 

[Horizons '83]

I wonder, if you worked for Costco would you have to pay the membership fee to buy something from there. Would that be charged or considered a gift? How about if you worked for a Car Rental Company and part of the perk program was a large discount to rent a car for yourself or a family member? A gift?

I worked for Enterprise-Rent-A-Car and I absolutely got deep discounted rentals for myself and family. Every little bit helps when you're making minimum wage.

 

[AAA1]

What they should do as the former Reedy Creek Board did give back all control to Disney. Get rid of CFTOD. In the end if the CFTOD continues it will be the taxpayer of Orange and Osceala county paying for it. If Desantis continues this nonsense it will lead to more unemployment and worse Disney may leave to another state that is more welcoming. Disney recently laid off more employees and shut down many projects. Be careful they maybe prepare to leave already quietly and going to another state. Universal open another theme park in Texas thanks to the incentive and the state welcome them. Texas and North Caroline have made the same offer. I would think Disney would be more entice in moving to Texas. I would hope all florida residents and business stand up and support Disney before it's to late.