News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

scottieRoss

Well-Known Member
If TWDC wanted to build a fifth park, under the old/new structure, would they have to pay impact fees to orange or Osceola county or does the structure of the district prevent that?
They do not pay impact fees to the counties, they pay them to the District. The district is the utility that provides the service, so they get the impact fees.
"A connection charge of $500.00 shall apply to all applications for service for Electric, Potable Water, Reclaimed Water, Natural Gas and Conditioned Water services provided by the District."
 

Cliff

Well-Known Member
Except, the district was never created to provide oversight, the district was created to support the creation of a World Class Tourist Destination. That is clearly laid out in the charter's preamble.
Im saying that the original RCID charter was flawed from day one. (In my opinion)

is it true that the state of Florida bent over backwards so hard that RCID/Disney was even given the right to build their own international air port...and their own nuclear power plant?? C'mon!. If that is correct....that is just a photograph as to how crazy Florida's mindset was in the late 1960's. I feel like Florida sold their soul to Disney back then.

Well,....RCID has been "updated" now and I think Disney will be perfectly fine in the new organization. Disney needs to now worry about its own bad park and attraction decisions. They need to fix their OWN boardroom.

The state of Florida and CFTOD and "NOT" Disney's real problem. Disney needs to fix THEMSELVES right now.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
If TWDC wanted to build a fifth park, under the old/new structure, would they have to pay impact fees to orange or Osceola county or does the structure of the district prevent that?
Disney does not pay impact fees to the counties. If you really want, you can look up the fee schedules for each online. They’re not that high. The counties aren’t losing money by not collecting the impact fees because they’d be spending more having to provide municipal services to Walt Disney World.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Im saying that the original RCID charter was flawed from day one. (In my opinion)
You keep repeating this without actually providing specifics.

is it true that the state of Florida bent over backwards so hard that RCID/Disney was even given the right to build their own international air port...and their own nuclear power plant?? C'mon!. If that is correct....that is just a photograph as to how crazy Florida's mindset was in the late 1960's. I feel like Florida sold their soul to Disney back then.
Disney can still own a nuclear power plant in Florida. Neither charter has anything to do with private ownership of nuclear power plants. Both nuclear power plants in Florida are privately owned. Most nuclear power plants in the United States are privately owned.

The state of Florida and CFTOD and "NOT" Disney's real problem. Disney needs to fix THEMSELVES right now.
So they’re just lying about trying to be a problem?
 

LSLS

Well-Known Member
Im saying that the original RCID charter was flawed from day one. (In my opinion)

is it true that the state of Florida bent over backwards so hard that RCID/Disney was even given the right to build their own international air port...and their own nuclear power plant?? C'mon!. If that is correct....that is just a photograph as to how crazy Florida's mindset was in the late 1960's. I feel like Florida sold their soul to Disney back then.

Well,....RCID has been "updated" now and I think Disney will be perfectly fine in the new organization. Disney needs to now worry about its own bad park and attraction decisions. They need to fix their OWN boardroom.

The state of Florida and CFTOD and "NOT" Disney's real problem. Disney needs to fix THEMSELVES right now.
Your case reads as to why there should be no district, not as to why a district made up of people who the district residents have no say in electing.
 

GrumpyFan

Well-Known Member
Im saying that the original RCID charter was flawed from day one. (In my opinion)

is it true that the state of Florida bent over backwards so hard that RCID/Disney was even given the right to build their own international air port...and their own nuclear power plant?? C'mon!. If that is correct....that is just a photograph as to how crazy Florida's mindset was in the late 1960's. I feel like Florida sold their soul to Disney back then.
Perhaps flawed by today's view, and your opinion, but I don't really think so for that time period in Central Florida.

At that time it was a pretty barren area where people passed thru on their way to the beach. The population of Orlando was around 250,00 then vs 2.1 million today today. In Kissimmee, just south of WDW property, there were around 6,000 residents, compared to over 600,000 thousand now. The Orlando airport (MCO), was still operating as a military base and didn't become a fully civil use airport until 1975. So, allowing them the option of building their own airport was considered to be a great option since there wasn't a good civilian airport in the area at the time. Also, it should be noted, the original charter did not specifically state "International airport", just "Airport facilities".

"Airport facilities" means airport facilities of all kinds including, but not limited to, landing fields, hangars, shops, terminals, buildings and all other facilities necessary or desirable for the landing, taking off, operating, servicing, repairing and parking of aircraft and helicopters, and the unloading and handling of passengers, mail, express and freight, together with all necessary appurtenances and equipment and all properties, rights, easements and franchises relating thereto and deemed necessary or convenient by the Board of Supervisors in connection therewith.

As for the nuclear facilities, again you must consider the timeframe. Nuclear was still very new and a viable option for future power demand. The inclusion of allowing for nuclear fission was included as well as other new and experimental sources. Keep in mind, the area was mostly undeveloped farmland or swamp/bog that was considered unusable for most industrial or even residential purposes. Disney came in offering to develop it themselves at no cost to Florida taxpayers.

Public Utilities.-To own, acquire, construct, reconstruct, equip, operate, maintain, extend and improve electric power plants, transmission lines and related facilities, gas mains and facilities of any nature for the production or distribution of natural gas, telephone lines, plants and systems and other communications systems of any nature, transmission lines and related facilities and plants and facilities for the generation and transmission of power through nuclear fission and other new and experimental sources of power and energy; to purchase electric power, natural gas and other sources of power for distribution within the District; and to develop and operate such new and experimental public utilities, including but not limited to centrally distributed heating and air conditioning facilities and services, closed-circuit television systems, and computer service and facilities, as the Board of Supervisors may from time to time determine.


Quotes are from the original RCID charter, available here. I would encourage you to read it for yourself, but keep in mind this all occurred in the mid 1960s, just a few years after the success of Disneyland. Things were much different then. It's not fair to look back at the decisions made then with today's lens. We can't really comprehend what or why it was done that way unless we stand in their shoes. It's all too easy to judge what was done and say "they were wrong" or "it should have been this way or that". We too will be judged some day by those who come after us, and I'm certain they will question some of the things we're doing.

In short, I think it was a VERY good deal for both Florida and Disney both then and now. It's dated now, and needed to be refined, but overall it's still a VERY good deal for the state. I don't think it's a bad thing for the state to have some involvement in the overall direction, but I think Disney should still have a majority decision on where they spend their tax dollars for their property. And so long as their plans aren't considered harmful to residents and businesses in the surrounding areas or to the environment, there should be minimal oversight by the state.

I've summarized the major points you brought up, but you should take the time to read some of the great books that have been written on the topic. Married to the Mouse: Walt Disney World and Orlando by Richard E. Foglesong, Buying Disney's World: The Story of How Florida Swampland Became Walt Disney World by Aaron H. Goldberg, Project Future: The Inside Story Behind the Creation of Disney World by Chad Denver Emerson.
 
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Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
You didn't ask if there were advantages or not. You asked if there were extra advantages only availble to Disney and not anyone else.

There's tons of special districts in Florida.

If you cannot point to an example advantage given to Disney that isn't available to anyone else, I would just assume there aren't any.
Also, there are very obvious disadvantages to the current setup, most glaringly is the fact that the new Board has no accountability to any landowners in the District, have openly stated that their goal is to censor Disney, and have tried to void existing contracts that were signed by the previousBoard members. That alone is more than enough reason for the company to spend millions of dollars fighting it.
 

scottieRoss

Well-Known Member
Im saying that the original RCID charter was flawed from day one. (In my opinion)

is it true that the state of Florida bent over backwards so hard that RCID/Disney was even given the right to build their own international air port...and their own nuclear power plant?? C'mon!. If that is correct....that is just a photograph as to how crazy Florida's mindset was in the late 1960's. I feel like Florida sold their soul to Disney back then.

Well,....RCID has been "updated" now and I think Disney will be perfectly fine in the new organization. Disney needs to now worry about its own bad park and attraction decisions. They need to fix their OWN boardroom.

The state of Florida and CFTOD and "NOT" Disney's real problem. Disney needs to fix THEMSELVES right now.
The important question is why do you think that the district should be regulating Disney when Universal, Sea World, Lego, and Busch Gardens do not have a Tourism Oversight board. Or for that matter why the board is called Central Florida Tourism when it has left out all the other Central Florida tourism areas? Or is it that you just want to regulate Disney?
 

Cliff

Well-Known Member
The important question is why do you think that the district should be regulating Disney when Universal, Sea World, Lego, and Busch Gardens do not have a Tourism Oversight board. Or for that matter why the board is called Central Florida Tourism when it has left out all the other Central Florida tourism areas? Or is it that you just want to regulate Disney?
I suspect that the RCID bonds are the main reason why this is a legacy mess. They cant just desolve the legacy mess and force the counties to take on this nightmare. Again,....i see just too many dependencies now from a bad plan that was created to build an Experimental Prototype COMMUNITY of Tomorrow....that never wound up happening...lol. Florida was WAY too over-excited about the EPCOT prospect and I think RCID as it was written was a result of that giddy/happy emotion.
 

GrumpyFan

Well-Known Member
I suspect that the RCID bonds are the main reason why this is a legacy mess. They cant just desolve the legacy mess and force the counties to take on this nightmare. Again,....i see just too many dependencies now from a bad plan that was created to build an Experimental Prototype COMMUNITY of Tomorrow....that never wound up happening...lol. Florida was WAY too over-excited about the EPCOT prospect and I think RCID as it was written was a result of that giddy/happy emotion.
Nah. The EPCOT project was a pipe-dream, pie-in-the sky, fantasy land. Nobody really had a clue what that was except Walt himself. Even his own people thought it was way too lofty and unachievable.
Florida leaders saw the success of Disneyland and wanted an East coast version to bring tourism dollars to central Florida.
Sure, they basically, gave him a blank slate and all access to do what he wanted, but nobody really complained for about 25 years while the money was good and crowds were manageable.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I suspect that the RCID bonds are the main reason why this is a legacy mess. They cant just desolve the legacy mess and force the counties to take on this nightmare. Again,....i see just too many dependencies now from a bad plan that was created to build an Experimental Prototype COMMUNITY of Tomorrow....that never wound up happening...lol. Florida was WAY too over-excited about the EPCOT prospect and I think RCID as it was written was a result of that giddy/happy emotion.
You haven’t read the documents you were provided, have you?
 

Chi84

Premium Member
I suspect that the RCID bonds are the main reason why this is a legacy mess. They cant just desolve the legacy mess and force the counties to take on this nightmare. Again,....i see just too many dependencies now from a bad plan that was created to build an Experimental Prototype COMMUNITY of Tomorrow....that never wound up happening...lol. Florida was WAY too over-excited about the EPCOT prospect and I think RCID as it was written was a result of that giddy/happy emotion.
That’s contrary to what the contemporaneous documents and Supreme Court decision said. Also contrary to what the legislators said. Where are you getting these ideas because there aren’t any facts to support them?
 

scottieRoss

Well-Known Member
@Cliff is just pushing an agenda without any facts.
He just ignores the fact that RCID had nothing to do with EPCOT. It was created to fund the construction of the infrastructure for the Vacation Kingdom. For 55 years, the RCID did exactly what it was created to do, Give Walt Disney Productions, and their successors, the ability to construct the largest vacation destination in the world without burdening the local populace. It is a model that has been repeated in Florida and other states. The Villages and businesses in local TIFs can thank Reedy Creek for proving it can work.
 

CaptainNicko

Active Member
@Cliff is just pushing an agenda without any facts.
He just ignores the fact that RCID had nothing to do with EPCOT. It was created to fund the construction of the infrastructure for the Vacation Kingdom. For 55 years, the RCID did exactly what it was created to do, Give Walt Disney Productions, and their successors, the ability to construct the largest vacation destination in the world without burdening the local populace. It is a model that has been repeated in Florida and other states. The Villages and businesses in local TIFs can thank Reedy Creek for proving it can work.
For the record, I asked y'all to stop replying...
 
I've seen quite a few people say that EPCOT had nothing to do with RCID as if they know this for a fact . My question is, how do we know for 100% certainty that IS fact? Does anyone happen to have meeting minutes between Disney reps and FL legislators that prove EPCOT was or wasn't used in their lobbying efforts? Are there some newspaper articles of the time that quote anyone from Disney or the state regarding EPCOT's role in creating the RCID as evidence one way or the other? If there is concrete proof then, great I'd love to see it! Otherwise none of us can say without a shadow of doubt that Walt's promise of EPCOT had absolutely nothing to do with the FL state legislature's decision to create the RCID. It's all speculation based on various bits of evidence we have. So therefore, it's an opinion and cannot be stated as fact.

As for my personal opinion, I agree with @Cliff that the promise EPCOT did play some role. It may not have on been the sole reason they created RCID, but it did play a role.

@Cliff is just pushing an agenda without any facts.

Just because someone has an opinion that differs from yours, that doesn't mean they're "pushing an agenda". We're merely expressing our viewpoint.
 

scottieRoss

Well-Known Member
I've seen quite a few people say that EPCOT had nothing to do with RCID as if they know this for a fact . My question is, how do we know for 100% certainty that IS fact? Does anyone happen to have meeting minutes between Disney reps and FL legislators that prove EPCOT was or wasn't used in their lobbying efforts? Are there some newspaper articles of the time that quote anyone from Disney or the state regarding EPCOT's role in creating the RCID as evidence one way or the other? If there is concrete proof then, great I'd love to see it! Otherwise none of us can say without a shadow of doubt that Walt's promise of EPCOT had absolutely nothing to do with the FL state legislature's decision to create the RCID. It's all speculation based on various bits of evidence we have. So therefore, it's an opinion and cannot be stated as fact.

As for my personal opinion, I agree with @Cliff that the promise EPCOT did play some role. It may not have on been the sole reason they created RCID, but it did play a role.



Just because someone has an opinion that differs from yours, that doesn't mean they're "pushing an agenda". We're merely expressing our viewpoint.
We have the actual reasons listed in the charter that was passed by the State of Florida that says the district was created to preserve natural resources and attractions and the creation of vacations sports and attractions
 

Cliff

Well-Known Member
We have the actual reasons listed in the charter that was passed by the State of Florida that says the district was created to preserve natural resources and attractions and the creation of vacations sports and attractions
And they allowed Disney specifically to build an actual NUCLEAR power plant..."not"...to power the futuristic CITY of the promised EPCOT...but, instead, the nuclear power plant could be used to power and protect the "natural resources" of the land they were maintaining.

Disney's nuclear power plant was never for EPCOT. The enormous power needs for EPCOT had nothing to do with this allowence. :)

Look....I understand that there are many RCID lovers in this forum that believe strongly in its charter's purpose. I'm just not one of them. I dont like the idea of "any" company having that much controll of any local government. Maybe only "ignorant" or "stupid" people believe this way. Maybe it's me just being horribly cynical. Well?...I also believe that more RCID shadiness WILL come to light in the months that follow.

Yep...I know the last sentence will really trigger some people. They will say "You terrible person!...how dare you have a hunch or suspicion about RCID without hard facts to back it up!!"

It's just a hunch folks....that's all it is and we all have them.
 
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