News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

GrumpyFan

Well-Known Member
Two more amicus briefs have been filed in support of Disney’s federal lawsuit.

The first is from “former governors, senior government attorneys , and other officials.” Court Listener currently does not have the actual brief available. If anyone has a PACER account and is willing to share it would be much appreciated.

Second is from the Leadership Now Project opposing the defendant’s motion to dismiss.

WOW! Some good fuel being added to the fire in support of Disney's first amendment retaliation claims.
I sincerely only hope this helps their case.
I also have to wonder what's prompting these? Are they unsolicited or did Disney reach out to some groups and "encourage" them? I gotta think it's the latter. The mouse ain't messin' around, and came to fight.
I just glanced at them, but they're packed with some good hits at the governor and the state for their actions.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
putting ALL politics aside no matter what side you are on... does anyone really feel this district set up for Disney truly gave them NO advantages or special privileges or ways to conduct business other's are not able to in Florida?
There is a very thorough law review article that gives a complete answer to your question. It was linked not too long ago. The post by @scottieRoss also answers what you asked.

If you’re looking for a simpler answer, I’m not sure one exists. All special districts are created for a reason, and the article explains why most businesses wouldn’t need or want them.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I also have to wonder what's prompting these? Are they unsolicited or did Disney reach out to some groups and "encourage" them? I gotta think it's the latter. The mouse ain't messin' around, and came to fight.
It’s part of the advocacy done by certain organizations. They follow cases and file amicus briefs on issues they feel are important to their work.
 

Cliff

Well-Known Member
So they should have engaged in a conspiracy?

Have you read any of the documents you’ve been provided?
No...I think it was just bad timing. I wish RCID was changed decades ago and NOT have been today, after all this Florida bill, Disney activism mess. I think the changes that they have today...should have been done in the early 1970's

I think the new changes are good but I dont agree with the public "reason" for the change. The "reason" for the change should NEVER been because of Disney's political activism. No...that is wrong justification. I think that changing RCID into the CFTOD configuration provides a more transparent group with better oversight. For me..."that"...is the "proper" reason for making these changes. Again, I think it should have been this way from the get go.

I know this opinion angers many here. I dont know why so many people are attarched to the old RCID and take it's changes so personally. Disney has to answer to local and state governments all over the world and had no problem operating under them. Look,....Anaheim gives Disney pure Hell sometimes but Disneyland is still a great resort to visit anyway.

CFTOD will NOT stop Disney from making billions at WDW. Disney's ONLY TRUE obsticle are their OWN bad park decisions and attraction choices.

CFTOD is nothing...Disney itself is it's own worst enemy.
 

Basil of Baker Street

Well-Known Member
No...I think it was just bad timing. I wish RCID was changed decades ago and NOT have been today, after all this Florida bill, Disney activism mess. I think the changes that they have today...should have been done in the early 1970's

I think the new changes are good but I dont agree with the public "reason" for the change. The "reason" for the change should NEVER been because of Disney's political activism. No...that is wrong justification. I think that changing RCID into the CFTOD configuration provides a more transparent group with better oversight. For me..."that"...is the "proper" reason for making these changes. Again, I think it should have been this way from the get go.

I know this opinion angers many here. I dont know why so many people are attarched to the old RCID and take it's changes so personally. Disney has to answer to local and state governments all over the world and had no problem operating under them. Look,....Anaheim gives Disney pure Hell sometimes but Disneyland is still a great resort to visit anyway.

CFTOD will NOT stop Disney from making billions at WDW. Disney's ONLY TRUE obsticle are their OWN bad park decisions and attraction choices.

CFTOD is nothing...Disney itself is it's own worst enemy.
I will agree Disney currently has bigger problems than anything Desantis has done.
 

scottieRoss

Well-Known Member
No...I think it was just bad timing. I wish RCID was changed decades ago and NOT have been today, after all this Florida bill, Disney activism mess. I think the changes that they have today...should have been done in the early 1970's

I think the new changes are good but I dont agree with the public "reason" for the change. The "reason" for the change should NEVER been because of Disney's political activism. No...that is wrong justification. I think that changing RCID into the CFTOD configuration provides a more transparent group with better oversight. For me..."that"...is the "proper" reason for making these changes. Again, I think it should have been this way from the get go.

I know this opinion angers many here. I dont know why so many people are attarched to the old RCID and take it's changes so personally. Disney has to answer to local and state governments all over the world and had no problem operating under them. Look,....Anaheim gives Disney pure Hell sometimes but Disneyland is still a great resort to visit anyway.

CFTOD will NOT stop Disney from making billions at WDW. Disney's ONLY TRUE obsticle are their OWN bad park decisions and attraction choices.

CFTOD is nothing...Disney itself is it's own worst enemy.
Except, the district was never created to provide oversight, the district was created to support the creation of a World Class Tourist Destination. That is clearly laid out in the charter's preamble.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
No...I think it was just bad timing. I wish RCID was changed decades ago and NOT have been today, after all this Florida bill, Disney activism mess. I think the changes that they have today...should have been done in the early 1970's

I think the new changes are good but I dont agree with the public "reason" for the change. The "reason" for the change should NEVER been because of Disney's political activism. No...that is wrong justification. I think that changing RCID into the CFTOD configuration provides a more transparent group with better oversight. For me..."that"...is the "proper" reason for making these changes. Again, I think it should have been this way from the get go.

I know this opinion angers many here. I dont know why so many people are attarched to the old RCID and take it's changes so personally. Disney has to answer to local and state governments all over the world and had no problem operating under them. Look,....Anaheim gives Disney pure Hell sometimes but Disneyland is still a great resort to visit anyway.

CFTOD will NOT stop Disney from making billions at WDW. Disney's ONLY TRUE obsticle are their OWN bad park decisions and attraction choices.

CFTOD is nothing...Disney itself is it's own worst enemy.
It’s not bad timing. It’s the only reason. The changes made were not previously considered because they completely contradict the purpose of such districts.

What changes provide greater transparency? What process was previously hidden that is now visible?

What oversight has changed and improved?

Nowhere else in the world does Disney work under a local government created with the sole purpose of punishing them. Anaheim doesn’t give Disney hell and because of agreements you say are wrong let’s them largely do as they desire.
 

scottieRoss

Well-Known Member
It’s not bad timing. It’s the only reason. The changes made were not previously considered because they completely contradict the purpose of such districts.

What changes provide greater transparency? What process was previously hidden that is now visible?

What oversight has changed and improved?

Nowhere else in the world does Disney work under a local government created with the sole purpose of punishing them. Anaheim doesn’t give Disney hell and because of agreements you say are wrong let’s them largely do as they desire.
And never forget, Desantis did not even know what the district was until he was looking for ways to hurt Disney.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
im sure if they werent they would NOT be spending millions to fight this.... lets be real here. so net net its most likely a bigger loss than they may want to admit. FTR tho yes i lean Right (can i say that? ) and obviously a Disney fan... i think he going after Disney was just a dumb decision almost as dumb as Bob and his statements
The current situation was created to harm Disney. That doesn’t mean they had some untoward advantage.

The advantages and how they are available to others has been documented and discussed.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
putting ALL politics aside no matter what side you are on... does anyone really feel this district set up for Disney truly gave them NO advantages or special privileges or ways to conduct business other's are not able to in Florida?

im sure if they werent they would NOT be spending millions to fight this....
You didn't ask if there were advantages or not. You asked if there were extra advantages only availble to Disney and not anyone else.

There's tons of special districts in Florida.

If you cannot point to an example advantage given to Disney that isn't available to anyone else, I would just assume there aren't any.
 

RamblinWreck

Well-Known Member
im sure if they werent they would NOT be spending millions to fight this.... lets be real here. so net net its most likely a bigger loss than they may want to admit. FTR tho yes i lean Right (can i say that? ) and obviously a Disney fan... i think he going after Disney was just a dumb decision almost as dumb as Bob and his statements
The mistake in your bolded statement above is that it relies on an assumption that Disney World’s situation now has in some way been brought in line with other entities in the state.


The reality is that they were not previously in a uniquely advantageous position. But they are now in a uniquely disadvantageous position compared to other entities in the state.

No one else is in a remotely similar situation to them. Of course they are fighting that.
 

afterabme

Active Member
If TWDC wanted to build a fifth park, under the old/new structure, would they have to pay impact fees to orange or Osceola county or does the structure of the district prevent that?
 

GrumpyFan

Well-Known Member
If TWDC wanted to build a fifth park, under the old/new structure, would they have to pay impact fees to orange or Osceola county or does the structure of the district prevent that?
I'm not 100% on this, but I've read they do pay some of these kind of fees to the district, but I'm not sure of the extent or if that includes Osceola (and Orange) county. Also, they submit their intended changes to the South Florida Water Management District. I don't know the extent of the authority they hold but almost anytime Disney or the district is planning to move dirt they file with SFWMD.
 

scottieRoss

Well-Known Member
If TWDC wanted to build a fifth park, under the old/new structure, would they have to pay impact fees to orange or Osceola county or does the structure of the district prevent that?
They do not pay impact fees to the counties, they pay them to the District. The district is the utility that provides the service, so they get the impact fees.
"A connection charge of $500.00 shall apply to all applications for service for Electric, Potable Water, Reclaimed Water, Natural Gas and Conditioned Water services provided by the District."
 

Cliff

Well-Known Member
Except, the district was never created to provide oversight, the district was created to support the creation of a World Class Tourist Destination. That is clearly laid out in the charter's preamble.
Im saying that the original RCID charter was flawed from day one. (In my opinion)

is it true that the state of Florida bent over backwards so hard that RCID/Disney was even given the right to build their own international air port...and their own nuclear power plant?? C'mon!. If that is correct....that is just a photograph as to how crazy Florida's mindset was in the late 1960's. I feel like Florida sold their soul to Disney back then.

Well,....RCID has been "updated" now and I think Disney will be perfectly fine in the new organization. Disney needs to now worry about its own bad park and attraction decisions. They need to fix their OWN boardroom.

The state of Florida and CFTOD and "NOT" Disney's real problem. Disney needs to fix THEMSELVES right now.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
If TWDC wanted to build a fifth park, under the old/new structure, would they have to pay impact fees to orange or Osceola county or does the structure of the district prevent that?
Disney does not pay impact fees to the counties. If you really want, you can look up the fee schedules for each online. They’re not that high. The counties aren’t losing money by not collecting the impact fees because they’d be spending more having to provide municipal services to Walt Disney World.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Im saying that the original RCID charter was flawed from day one. (In my opinion)
You keep repeating this without actually providing specifics.

is it true that the state of Florida bent over backwards so hard that RCID/Disney was even given the right to build their own international air port...and their own nuclear power plant?? C'mon!. If that is correct....that is just a photograph as to how crazy Florida's mindset was in the late 1960's. I feel like Florida sold their soul to Disney back then.
Disney can still own a nuclear power plant in Florida. Neither charter has anything to do with private ownership of nuclear power plants. Both nuclear power plants in Florida are privately owned. Most nuclear power plants in the United States are privately owned.

The state of Florida and CFTOD and "NOT" Disney's real problem. Disney needs to fix THEMSELVES right now.
So they’re just lying about trying to be a problem?
 

LSLS

Well-Known Member
Im saying that the original RCID charter was flawed from day one. (In my opinion)

is it true that the state of Florida bent over backwards so hard that RCID/Disney was even given the right to build their own international air port...and their own nuclear power plant?? C'mon!. If that is correct....that is just a photograph as to how crazy Florida's mindset was in the late 1960's. I feel like Florida sold their soul to Disney back then.

Well,....RCID has been "updated" now and I think Disney will be perfectly fine in the new organization. Disney needs to now worry about its own bad park and attraction decisions. They need to fix their OWN boardroom.

The state of Florida and CFTOD and "NOT" Disney's real problem. Disney needs to fix THEMSELVES right now.
Your case reads as to why there should be no district, not as to why a district made up of people who the district residents have no say in electing.
 

GrumpyFan

Well-Known Member
Im saying that the original RCID charter was flawed from day one. (In my opinion)

is it true that the state of Florida bent over backwards so hard that RCID/Disney was even given the right to build their own international air port...and their own nuclear power plant?? C'mon!. If that is correct....that is just a photograph as to how crazy Florida's mindset was in the late 1960's. I feel like Florida sold their soul to Disney back then.
Perhaps flawed by today's view, and your opinion, but I don't really think so for that time period in Central Florida.

At that time it was a pretty barren area where people passed thru on their way to the beach. The population of Orlando was around 250,00 then vs 2.1 million today today. In Kissimmee, just south of WDW property, there were around 6,000 residents, compared to over 600,000 thousand now. The Orlando airport (MCO), was still operating as a military base and didn't become a fully civil use airport until 1975. So, allowing them the option of building their own airport was considered to be a great option since there wasn't a good civilian airport in the area at the time. Also, it should be noted, the original charter did not specifically state "International airport", just "Airport facilities".

"Airport facilities" means airport facilities of all kinds including, but not limited to, landing fields, hangars, shops, terminals, buildings and all other facilities necessary or desirable for the landing, taking off, operating, servicing, repairing and parking of aircraft and helicopters, and the unloading and handling of passengers, mail, express and freight, together with all necessary appurtenances and equipment and all properties, rights, easements and franchises relating thereto and deemed necessary or convenient by the Board of Supervisors in connection therewith.

As for the nuclear facilities, again you must consider the timeframe. Nuclear was still very new and a viable option for future power demand. The inclusion of allowing for nuclear fission was included as well as other new and experimental sources. Keep in mind, the area was mostly undeveloped farmland or swamp/bog that was considered unusable for most industrial or even residential purposes. Disney came in offering to develop it themselves at no cost to Florida taxpayers.

Public Utilities.-To own, acquire, construct, reconstruct, equip, operate, maintain, extend and improve electric power plants, transmission lines and related facilities, gas mains and facilities of any nature for the production or distribution of natural gas, telephone lines, plants and systems and other communications systems of any nature, transmission lines and related facilities and plants and facilities for the generation and transmission of power through nuclear fission and other new and experimental sources of power and energy; to purchase electric power, natural gas and other sources of power for distribution within the District; and to develop and operate such new and experimental public utilities, including but not limited to centrally distributed heating and air conditioning facilities and services, closed-circuit television systems, and computer service and facilities, as the Board of Supervisors may from time to time determine.


Quotes are from the original RCID charter, available here. I would encourage you to read it for yourself, but keep in mind this all occurred in the mid 1960s, just a few years after the success of Disneyland. Things were much different then. It's not fair to look back at the decisions made then with today's lens. We can't really comprehend what or why it was done that way unless we stand in their shoes. It's all too easy to judge what was done and say "they were wrong" or "it should have been this way or that". We too will be judged some day by those who come after us, and I'm certain they will question some of the things we're doing.

In short, I think it was a VERY good deal for both Florida and Disney both then and now. It's dated now, and needed to be refined, but overall it's still a VERY good deal for the state. I don't think it's a bad thing for the state to have some involvement in the overall direction, but I think Disney should still have a majority decision on where they spend their tax dollars for their property. And so long as their plans aren't considered harmful to residents and businesses in the surrounding areas or to the environment, there should be minimal oversight by the state.

I've summarized the major points you brought up, but you should take the time to read some of the great books that have been written on the topic. Married to the Mouse: Walt Disney World and Orlando by Richard E. Foglesong, Buying Disney's World: The Story of How Florida Swampland Became Walt Disney World by Aaron H. Goldberg, Project Future: The Inside Story Behind the Creation of Disney World by Chad Denver Emerson.
 
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