News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Chi84]

Is the district able to levy fines? I’m thinking back to how they could enforce Covid rules they’re making up. I feel like only bay lake and lake Buena vista can issue bylaws and fines?

The Enforcement and Penalties section is Section 67 on pp. 72-73 of the RCID (now CFTOD) charter. It contains standard language providing for "recourse to such remedies in law and equity as may be necessary to ensure compliance" with the provisions of the Act or regulations "made under authority conferred by this Act or under law ***."

It provides for injunctive relief and states persons found violating the Act commit a misdemeanor, with every day of non-compliance constituting a separate violation.

The key here is whether the board has authority under the Act to prohibit business owners in the special district from adopting health measures for their own premises.

I haven't found this authority in the charter, but I'm no expert in this area, so others may know more.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The actual poll, with exact verbiage.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The poll does not have to indicate support for DeSantis.

It does though. The language was literally "do you support or oppose DeSantis' actions?"

 

[GoofGoof]

The poll does not have to indicate support for DeSantis.

The surprising Democratic results might simply reflect the long-held belief among traditional Democrats that large corporations should be heavy regulated by the government.

A core Democrat value used to be strong government oversight of large corporations.

I don’t disagree. If you asked most Democrats do you support a governor who is shutting down a tax loophole that a large corporation uses to avoid paying their fair share of taxes the answer will be heavily skewed towards yes. We all know this situation has nothing to do with taxes. Why not add in a sentence that says “despite the political spin out research shows Disney actually pays more in taxes as the result of this arrangement? I bet the answer changes dramatically.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I don’t disagree. If you asked most Democrats do you support a governor who is shutting down a tax loophole that a large corporation uses to avoid paying their fair share of taxes the answer will be heavily skewed towards yes. We all know this situation has nothing to do with taxes. Why not add in a sentence that says “despite the political spin out research shows Disney actually pays more in taxes as the result of this arrangement? I bet the answer changes dramatically.

The autonomy is the issue, not the size of the tax bill.

And the poll even points out that the action was retaliation for Disney opining on the Parental Rights bill. So I don't think you can make the case that the question language is biased in favor of DeSantis.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

People responding to the poll don't know special tax status means Disney pays MORE in taxes..

Yep

 

[GoofGoof]

The autonomy is the issue, not the size of the tax bill.

And the poll even points out that the action was retaliation for Disney opining on the Parental Rights bill. So I don't think you can make the case that the question language is biased in favor of DeSantis.

Why add commentary at all unless your goal is to get a certain response? Wouldn’t a more fair question simply be “do you support Governor DeSantis in his feud with Disney. Yes, no or I am unaware of the dispute“.

 

[AEfx]

The surprising Democratic results might simply reflect the long-held belief among traditional Democrats that large corporations should be heavy regulated by the government.

A core Democrat value used to be strong government oversight of large corporations.

Thank you - I honestly was starting to think I had changed universes or something, because in this discussion no one seems willing to acknowledge this. I keep seeing people point out the also valid observation that the conservatives are seemingly going against their traditional beliefs in regard to corporations, but refusing to acknowledge how very strange it is for those who consider themselves to be liberal are suddenly all about corporate rights and cheering on Disney having a stronghold on local government.

The idea that RCID should be looked at, and the benefits and detriments of it, was not simply invented by DeSantis. He is using it opportunistically, but even on this board it has been discussed for years and it was going to happen some day (and there wasn't this near-universal support as you see here of Disney having as much autonomy as possible now that it is a political issue).

That's what makes this discussion difficult to follow, because people on both ends are on the side they are because of external political reasons, not the actual merits of "should Disney have so much power over the local government".

 

[Chi84]

I guess the poll matters to the extent that it might encourage the governor to continue. At this point, I think it's become a legal issue between the state and RCID. I hope things haven't gotten to the point where our legal rights depend on how people answer polls.

 

[James Alucobond]

The autonomy is the issue, not the size of the tax bill.

And the poll even points out that the action was retaliation for Disney opining on the Parental Rights bill. So I don't think you can make the case that the question language is biased in favor of DeSantis.

His actions with regard to autonomy are tied to many things about which people might have different opinions. For example, do you support or oppose DeSantis:

• standing up to Disney over the parental rights legislation?
• questioning the value of Disney’s special district?
• retaliating against Disney while ignoring the competition?
• appointing a board that reports solely to him?
• removing all Disney representation from the board?
• threatening to use district lands in ways that would punish residents?

You might have different opinions on each of these, but they’re all bound up in the question.

 

[AEfx]

Why add commentary at all unless your goal is to get a certain response? Wouldn’t a more fair question simply be “do you support Governor DeSantis in his feud with Disney. Yes, no or I am unaware of the dispute“.

No, that would be a social-media level baiting question.

I don't know how that poll question could have been more non-partisan. I was actually very impressed by that - it felt very "old school" - before everyone was asking pithy questions using buzz-words like "feud" which automatically expects people to take sides before they even know the basic details.

That said, I think what that poll reflects is what I have mentioned here previously - Disney does not have a lot of fans out there, aside from, well, fans. There are a lot of groups across the political and social spectrum that do not like Disney for reasons as varied as conservatives thinking it's content is too progressive, to progressives thinking that Disney is too traditional in it's "Princess" ideals (no matter what their color) and teaches kids bad lessons about "your Prince may come". And everything in between - general anti-corporate media conglomerate, the rest of Hollywood who laments about the "Marvel" take-over of cinema, heck, even the term "Disneyfied" is a pejorative for crass commercialism.

That's why, even though this seems like this big daily drama here (and some media outlets really are trying to make it one), this just isn't a massive issue to begin with, and not one that's going to predispose people to feeling sympathy for a corporation outside of those on both sides who are largely siding because of politics, not belief.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The poll does not have to indicate support for DeSantis.

The surprising Democratic results might simply reflect the long-held belief among traditional Democrats that large corporations should be heavy regulated by the government.

A core Democrat value used to be strong government oversight of large corporations.

Disney wasn’t unregulated. The constant search for a contradiction is disingenuous from the start. The district’s compliance with state regulation is one of the issues with the criteria established by the original dissolution legislation.

 

[GoofGoof]

No, that would be a social-media level baiting question.

I don't know how that poll question could have been more non-partisan. I was actually very impressed by that - it felt very "old school" - before everyone was asking pithy questions using buzz-words like "feud" which automatically expects people to take sides before they even know the basic details.

That said, I think what that poll reflects is what I have mentioned here previously - Disney does not have a lot of fans out there, aside from, well, fans. There are a lot of groups across the political and social spectrum that do not like Disney for reasons as varied as conservatives thinking it's content is too progressive, to progressives thinking that Disney is too traditional in it's "Princess" ideals (no matter what their color) and teaches kids bad lessons about "your Prince may come". And everything in between - general anti-corporate media conglomerate, the rest of Hollywood who laments about the "Marvel" take-over of cinema, heck, even the term "Disneyfied" is a pejorative for crass commercialism.

That's why, even though this seems like this big daily drama here (and some media outlets really are trying to make it one), this just isn't a massive issue to begin with, and not one that's going to predispose people to feeling sympathy for a corporation outside of those on both sides who are largely siding because of politics, not belief.

We can agree to disagree. I don’t know how just asking whether people support the Governor‘s actions or not is baiting. That makes no sense to me. They still asked that same question but then added color that could be disputed by both sides as skewed.

That's what makes this discussion difficult to follow, because people on both ends are on the side they are because of external political reasons, not the actual merits of "should Disney have so much power over the local government".

Disney never had power over a local general government. They had no power over Orange or Osceola counties where they operated. They had control over a special tax district (1,800 of which exist in FL alone). While the district had broader powers than most special district it was still very limited in scope compared to a general local government. Part of the issue is people don’t understand that and don’t understand what RCID actually did and more important didn’t do. If you told me Universal was going to have control over the Orlando local government I would have a huge problem with that. If they want a special district for their train station that they want control over I have no problem with that.

 

[harry58]

Thank you - I honestly was starting to think I had changed universes or something, because in this discussion no one seems willing to acknowledge this. I keep seeing people point out the also valid observation that the conservatives are seemingly going against their traditional beliefs in regard to corporations, but refusing to acknowledge how very strange it is for those who consider themselves to be liberal are suddenly all about corporate rights and cheering on Disney having a stronghold on local government.

The idea that RCID should be looked at, and the benefits and detriments of it, was not simply invented by DeSantis. He is using it opportunistically, but even on this board it has been discussed for years and it was going to happen some day (and there wasn't this near-universal support as you see here of Disney having as much autonomy as possible now that it is a political issue).

That's what makes this discussion difficult to follow, because people on both ends are on the side they are because of external political reasons, not the actual merits of "should Disney have so much power over the local government".

I agree that this arrangement with RCID should be examined, see if it is still appropriate, and modified or ended as necessary. BUT Unfortunately the governor has made this not about RCID but about the question of whether the government has the right to punish a corporation for free speech. I think that the reactions would be very different without the political envelope that this is taking place in. I think it is hard to judge RCID and it's necessity within this atmosphere.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Disney never had power over a local general government. They had no power over Orange or Osceola counties where they operated. They had control over a special tax district (1,800 of which exist in FL alone). While the district had broader powers than most special district it was still very limited in scope compared to a general local government. Part of the issue is people don’t understand that and don’t understand what RCID actually did and more important didn’t do. If you told me Universal was going to have control over the Orlando local government I would have a huge problem with that. If they want a special district for their train station that they want control over I have no problem with that.

You’re forgetting Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista.

 

[lentesta]

Going back to RCID...I know I should know this, but which organization provides on-site medical services to guests in the parks? Like, if I slip on a churro in Animal Kingdom and need medical attention, is the RCID EMS the first responders?

 

[Brian]

Like, if I slip on a churro in Animal Kingdom and need medical attention, is the RCID EMS the first responders?

Yes. In fact, unless there's several medical emergencies happening simultaneously within the park, they are generally strategically positioned backstage for a quick response.

 

[AEfx]

We can agree to disagree. I don’t know how just asking whether people support the Governor‘s actions or not is baiting. That makes no sense to me. They still asked that same question but then added color that could be disputed by both sides as skewed.

What I am saying though - is if you really read that question - word for word, line by line, I can't find a partisan bit in it. It's almost like a 1970's journalist wrote it. We have become so used to everything politicized in every word we read, I think it may be hard to recognize a truly unbiased question.

 

[GoofGoof]

I agree that this arrangement with RCID should be examined, see if it is still appropriate, and modified or ended as necessary. BUT Unfortunately the governor has made this not about RCID but about the question of whether the government has the right to punish a corporation for free speech. I think that the reactions would be very different without the political envelope that this is taking place in. I think it is hard to judge RCID and it's necessity within this atmosphere.

^exactly this

If the real issue is Disney having control of a local government then end that. Dissolve the special district. Get rid of all special districts in the state if that’s really a problem. That’s not what we have here. People desperately want to spin this as the Governor stripping Disney of their self governing status but this is going a huge step further. They aren’t on a ”level playing field” now with competitors. Nobody else has a hostile governor controlled board looking to damage their business operations. It’s pure spin to frame this as just removing Disney’s self governing status.

I personally never saw an issue with RCID, I think it actually is a bigger benefit to local taxpayers than it is to Disney at this point, but that’s an opinion. If it was really a big problem it could have been dissolved the right way . Not on the spot like the governor tried but over time. They would need to unwind the debt over time and begin the process of transitioning services to the counties. If it was done gradually they could avoid a sudden 25% increase in property taxes. Local taxes would go up but all control would go to the elected representatives in the county. I personally think the local residents who would be impacted should have a say in that. A referendum in the 2 counties on whether to dissolve the special district and absorb the services or leave it alone.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We really got “dense head syndrome” going here today

Here’s the wash: Disney is actually winning the PR battle here.

Search the depths of Rupert Murdochs internet to find your “proof” otherwise…but you don’t need to.

They are winning. For now