News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The poll does not have to indicate support for DeSantis.

The surprising Democratic results might simply reflect the long-held belief among traditional Democrats that large corporations should be heavy regulated by the government.

A core Democrat value used to be strong government oversight of large corporations.
Disney wasn’t unregulated. The constant search for a contradiction is disingenuous from the start. The district’s compliance with state regulation is one of the issues with the criteria established by the original dissolution legislation.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
No, that would be a social-media level baiting question.

I don't know how that poll question could have been more non-partisan. I was actually very impressed by that - it felt very "old school" - before everyone was asking pithy questions using buzz-words like "feud" which automatically expects people to take sides before they even know the basic details.

That said, I think what that poll reflects is what I have mentioned here previously - Disney does not have a lot of fans out there, aside from, well, fans. There are a lot of groups across the political and social spectrum that do not like Disney for reasons as varied as conservatives thinking it's content is too progressive, to progressives thinking that Disney is too traditional in it's "Princess" ideals (no matter what their color) and teaches kids bad lessons about "your Prince may come". And everything in between - general anti-corporate media conglomerate, the rest of Hollywood who laments about the "Marvel" take-over of cinema, heck, even the term "Disneyfied" is a pejorative for crass commercialism.

That's why, even though this seems like this big daily drama here (and some media outlets really are trying to make it one), this just isn't a massive issue to begin with, and not one that's going to predispose people to feeling sympathy for a corporation outside of those on both sides who are largely siding because of politics, not belief.
We can agree to disagree. I don’t know how just asking whether people support the Governor‘s actions or not is baiting. That makes no sense to me. They still asked that same question but then added color that could be disputed by both sides as skewed.
That's what makes this discussion difficult to follow, because people on both ends are on the side they are because of external political reasons, not the actual merits of "should Disney have so much power over the local government".
Disney never had power over a local general government. They had no power over Orange or Osceola counties where they operated. They had control over a special tax district (1,800 of which exist in FL alone). While the district had broader powers than most special district it was still very limited in scope compared to a general local government. Part of the issue is people don’t understand that and don’t understand what RCID actually did and more important didn’t do. If you told me Universal was going to have control over the Orlando local government I would have a huge problem with that. If they want a special district for their train station that they want control over I have no problem with that.
 

harry58

Member
Thank you - I honestly was starting to think I had changed universes or something, because in this discussion no one seems willing to acknowledge this. I keep seeing people point out the also valid observation that the conservatives are seemingly going against their traditional beliefs in regard to corporations, but refusing to acknowledge how very strange it is for those who consider themselves to be liberal are suddenly all about corporate rights and cheering on Disney having a stronghold on local government.

The idea that RCID should be looked at, and the benefits and detriments of it, was not simply invented by DeSantis. He is using it opportunistically, but even on this board it has been discussed for years and it was going to happen some day (and there wasn't this near-universal support as you see here of Disney having as much autonomy as possible now that it is a political issue).

That's what makes this discussion difficult to follow, because people on both ends are on the side they are because of external political reasons, not the actual merits of "should Disney have so much power over the local government".
I agree that this arrangement with RCID should be examined, see if it is still appropriate, and modified or ended as necessary. BUT Unfortunately the governor has made this not about RCID but about the question of whether the government has the right to punish a corporation for free speech. I think that the reactions would be very different without the political envelope that this is taking place in. I think it is hard to judge RCID and it's necessity within this atmosphere.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Disney never had power over a local general government. They had no power over Orange or Osceola counties where they operated. They had control over a special tax district (1,800 of which exist in FL alone). While the district had broader powers than most special district it was still very limited in scope compared to a general local government. Part of the issue is people don’t understand that and don’t understand what RCID actually did and more important didn’t do. If you told me Universal was going to have control over the Orlando local government I would have a huge problem with that. If they want a special district for their train station that they want control over I have no problem with that.
You’re forgetting Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
We can agree to disagree. I don’t know how just asking whether people support the Governor‘s actions or not is baiting. That makes no sense to me. They still asked that same question but then added color that could be disputed by both sides as skewed.
What I am saying though - is if you really read that question - word for word, line by line, I can't find a partisan bit in it. It's almost like a 1970's journalist wrote it. We have become so used to everything politicized in every word we read, I think it may be hard to recognize a truly unbiased question.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I agree that this arrangement with RCID should be examined, see if it is still appropriate, and modified or ended as necessary. BUT Unfortunately the governor has made this not about RCID but about the question of whether the government has the right to punish a corporation for free speech. I think that the reactions would be very different without the political envelope that this is taking place in. I think it is hard to judge RCID and it's necessity within this atmosphere.
^exactly this

If the real issue is Disney having control of a local government then end that. Dissolve the special district. Get rid of all special districts in the state if that’s really a problem. That’s not what we have here. People desperately want to spin this as the Governor stripping Disney of their self governing status but this is going a huge step further. They aren’t on a ”level playing field” now with competitors. Nobody else has a hostile governor controlled board looking to damage their business operations. It’s pure spin to frame this as just removing Disney’s self governing status.

I personally never saw an issue with RCID, I think it actually is a bigger benefit to local taxpayers than it is to Disney at this point, but that’s an opinion. If it was really a big problem it could have been dissolved the right way . Not on the spot like the governor tried but over time. They would need to unwind the debt over time and begin the process of transitioning services to the counties. If it was done gradually they could avoid a sudden 25% increase in property taxes. Local taxes would go up but all control would go to the elected representatives in the county. I personally think the local residents who would be impacted should have a say in that. A referendum in the 2 counties on whether to dissolve the special district and absorb the services or leave it alone.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
Why add commentary at all unless your goal is to get a certain response? Wouldn’t a more fair question simply be “do you support Governor DeSantis in his feud with Disney. Yes, no or I am unaware of the dispute“.

I think it would have to be even more vague than that, mentioning DeSantis by name will skew the results.

I don’t envy pollsters because coming up with a truly nonpartisan question is nearly impossible in such a divided country.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Going back to RCID...I know I should know this, but which organization provides on-site medical services to guests in the parks? Like, if I slip on a churro in Animal Kingdom and need medical attention, is the RCID EMS the first responders?
Yes, Reedy Creek Emergency Services handles medical as well as fire first response services.

If Universal gets their community development district they could establish their own Shingle Creek Emergency Services to serve Epic Universe and any other landowners who decide to join.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
There are plenty of traditional Democrats who were uncomfortable with the RCID arrangement before recent events.

Not all traditional Democrats were (or are) comfortable with Disney’s arrangement.
As we’ve seen repeatedly, many didn’t actually understand the arrangement. A good many are issues with Florida, not the specific one situation.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I think it would have to be even more vague than that, mentioning DeSantis by name will skew the results.

I don’t envy pollsters because coming up with a truly nonpartisan question is nearly impossible in such a divided country.
I guess we can agree to disagree. It’s a political poll so they can’t leave the Governor’s name out.

All I’m saying is based on how you frame the dispute between DeSantis and Disney you will get a different response. If you don’t frame it at all then people will respond based on what they personally know. I‘d be curious how many would respond not aware of the dispute or not sure or whatever third option you give. I imagine quite a few of the people polled probably know very little of the details which is why the framing of the dispute matters.
 

Brian

Well-Known Member
I guess we can agree to disagree. It’s a political poll so they can’t leave the Governor’s name out.

All I’m saying is based on how you frame the dispute between DeSantis and Disney you will get a different response. If you don’t frame it at all then people will respond based on what they personally know. I‘d be curious how many would respond not aware of the dispute or not sure or whatever third option you give. I imagine quite a few of the people polled probably know very little of the details which is why the framing of the dispute matters.
I believe this was a national poll, and unless you follow politics daily, you're almost certainly not going to be aware of an inconsequential (for the average American) feud between Florida and Disney.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I believe this was a national poll, and unless you follow politics daily, you're almost certainly not going to be aware of an inconsequential (for the average American) feud between Florida and Disney.
Exactly. My guess is the majority of those polled would pick answer 3 (not sure or unknown). Once you introduce bias into the design of the question it’s impossible to know whether the person is responding based on actual knowledge of the situation or based on how you framed the situation. So as I said I could write the question differently and get a very different answer. That’s not to say it’s completely useless information, but it is flawed based on how the question was asked.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
There are plenty of traditional Democrats who were uncomfortable with the RCID arrangement before recent events.

Not all traditional Democrats were (or are) comfortable with Disney’s arrangement.

There also are traditional Democrats who don’t think it’s good for the country for powerful for-profit corporations to have First Amendment rights on par with ordinary people.

These political beliefs predate recent events.

You're completely right on all of this. And if the elimination of RCID were done in a different manner and for different reasons, I wouldn't be opposed to this.

However, I don't view it in that regard: I view it as punishment for expressing a viewpoint that is different to those in power. And if Disney, an iconic multibillion dollar corporation that's a household name is being given the ringer, what chance do I have if they decide to suppress free speech in Florida?
 
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tissandtully

Well-Known Member
Exactly. My guess is the majority of those polled would pick answer 3 (not sure or unknown). Once you introduce bias into the design of the question it’s impossible to know whether the person is responding based on actual knowledge of the situation or based on how you framed the situation. So as I said I could write the question differently and get a very different answer. That’s not to say it’s completely useless information, but it is flawed based on how the question was asked.
I actually decline to participate in polls where I don’t know all the facts of the questions are phrased poorly.
 

tissandtully

Well-Known Member
You're completely right on all of this. And if the elimination of RCID were done in a different manner and for different reasons, I wouldn't be opposed to this.

However, I don't view it in that regard: I view it as punishment for expressing a viewpoint that is different to those in power. And if Disney, an iconic multibillion dollar corporation that's a household name is being given the ringer, what chance do I have?
And if all the other special districts were dissolved too.
 

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