News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[sblank]

This is exactly what has happened so far. The new board has zero qualifications, but all “friends of the program” and donors to the Governor. They are paying it forward with hiring consultants and lawyers and administrators as favors. It’s all very corrupt. We haven’t even gotten to new road contracts or other services which will likely all follow the same pattern.

Correct. The Reedy Creek takeover is also just one in an emerging pattern of local, independent (from the state) authorities that desantis and the legislature are attempting to take over in order to install his own people in and thus have control over their huge budgets.

There's also the takeover-in-progress of publicly owned Gainesville Regional Utilities and of MDX in south Florida. Both of which are being done under the flimsiest of pretenses and the latter of which is also constitutionally sketchy at best, like Reedy Creek. They just don't involve Disney so aren't as flashy.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think what they‘ll actually try to do is try to push through a new comprehensive plan and then rezone a bunch of Disney’s land for residential development so Disney can’t build new parks, hotels, retail, etc. on their property. And they’ll make a bunch of noise saying it’s for affordable housing yada yada when in actuality Disney just won’t build anything and they’ll point to the developments they’re building just outside of the district as their commitment to affordable housing.

Not that facts matter, but most of the District is already zoned for affordable housing.

What you describe would cause some potential issues in the future, but I also don’t see Disney building a lot out of where they have existing development.

More immediately I think it’s just a lie to justify changing the development process to put more projects in front of the zoning commission, which is now the Board. That’s the thing they want. That’s where they get to control content.

 

[flynnibus]

This is an intelligent and well thought out post. We are not dealing with intelligent people who think anything out. Their “plan” is as well thought out as the original one to dissolve the district.

I think what you see is people putting on a facade of 'progressing the idea' when in fact they already have their end-game decided, but won't admit it. That's why the ideas don't seem to follow any natural flow or progression in the public view... because the steps are just being 'faked' for all intents.

Instead of a discussion that naturally tries to address uncertainties or concerns.. you get what looks like a bullheaded approach that ignores plainly obvious things.

These are all tells of something that is pre-determined instead of organically progressing.

 

[fotofx]

Can you provide a reference to support any of these claims?

Something in the charter maybe? News stories from the time period? Documentaries that delve into the details? Court case findings from previous changes? Opinion pieces from prior to 2022? Talking points from politicians? Crazy internet theories? Anything at all that supports (even if incorrectly) any of this?


Thread moves fast. Reading it all, especially with off topic deletes could be hard. But, did you read any of it? 50, 30, or even 10 pages of it?


Can you give any reasons at all that this would be new to the discussion?

If you go on Youtube there are plenty of videos of Walt showing what he had planned and the press conference with the Governor stating he did not want a sequel but something entirely new.

 

[flynnibus]

The original plans that were provided to the state at the time Reedy Creek was created included businesses, residences, recreation, transportation, and all the infrastructure to create a city that you could live, work, and play in.

How do you think you would have gotten to the Magic Kingdom if it was still in a swamp, without power, without roads, without potable water and was still filled with bugs?

And what is all this infrastructure that was built out doing these days since EPCOT wasn't built? Are they all sitting around idle??

Or... was it all actually needed for things besides EPCOT too?

 

[flynnibus]

Also, at the May 1st meeting, Garcia went on and on about how the district‘s urban planning and design was stuck in 1967. Obviously that’s complete nonsense and he knows it. Just because the district was founded in ‘67 doesn’t mean that the urban planning was stuck in that era. He also went on to applaud Disney’s innovation in this field.

Which begs the question: “At the May 1st meeting, Chairman Garcia said and I quote, ‘That’s what we’re trying to do, is bring this district from an urban planning perspective into today’s times. And think about the innovation that has occured in that industry. Think about why Disney has been so successful in the past 56 years…because they innovated. Innovation is the American way.’ Now, if Disney had control over this district as you say they did, and they own the vast majority of land in the district, and they’re an innovator in urban planning and design, then your theory that this district was stuck in the urban planning of the sixties is nonsense. And therefore, the task assigned to you by the legislature and the governor is total bunk.”

It was a long winded setup to try to argue why they need new density changes to support their agenda of forcing some residential into the property.

Not an actual argument, but a setup to tee up their pre-determined conclusion.

 

[Chi84]

If you go on Youtube there are plenty of videos of Walt showing what he had planned and the press conference with the Governor stating he did not want a sequel but something entirely new.

If you’re really interested in an in-depth explanation of how and why RCID came about this is an excellent article citing to many original and factual sources.

https://ir.law.fsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1123&context=lr

 

[flynnibus]

If you go on Youtube there are plenty of videos of Walt showing what he had planned and the press conference with the Governor stating he did not want a sequel but something entirely new.

Yes, but that *idea* was already on the back burner by the time RCID was proposed to the state. The state was drooling at the potential for what Disneyland East was gonna do for them...

Walt's vision was very much still just an idea -- which the company parked and pivoted away from virtually immediately after Walt passed. The resort was the company's priority -- which still had the majority of the same needs. The entire property, not just EPCOT, were being designed to be forward thinking from the start... which RCID helped enable.

The notion that RCID was only to serve the purpose of building EPCOT is fiction.

 

[flynnibus]

I still feel that what the state thought they were going to get and what they actually got are very different. Universal seems to be doing very well without the benefits. I agree it is a much smaller scale land wise but they managed.

They also built nearly 20 yrs later in an entirely different area in an economic base that was already riding on the back of Disney.

 

[mmascari]

If you go on Youtube there are plenty of videos of Walt showing what he had planned and the press conference with the Governor stating he did not want a sequel but something entirely new.

What Walt had visions for and what the RCID was set up to achieve were different things. They did not have the same requirements. Do any of those videos actually tie the two together? Or are they just suggestive?

 

[flynnibus]

What Walt had visions for and what the RCID was set up to achieve were different things. They did not have the same requirements. Do any of those videos actually tie the two together? Or are they just suggestive?

We know RCID was created to be forward looking to include EPCOT concepts - it just wasn't ONLY for EPCOT. That's the falsehood... that without EPCOT there was no need for RCID or it was some sort of switcheroo.

Which is why it makes for such a plausible conspiracy plot... always have some threads of truth woven in so you can have something to make your incredible leaps from

 

[MagicHappens1971]

I love Disney and have been a shareholder for several decades. That being said, I really believe Reedy Creek should have been dissolved in the early 70's.

Reedy Creek came about because Walt's original plan centered around EPCOT which was going to basically be a city. The original plans that were provided to the state at the time Reedy Creek was created included businesses, residences, recreation, transportation, and all the infrastructure to create a city that you could live, work, and play in.

This was never built. Had Walt have just proposed building a theme park I do not believe Reedy Creek would have existed.

This is wrong, but even if you had just skimmed through a few pages you would see that this has been asked and answered countless times

 

[peter11435]

If you go on Youtube there are plenty of videos of Walt showing what he had planned and the press conference with the Governor stating he did not want a sequel but something entirely new.

The RCID legislation was enacted a year after Walt’s death. When Walt died EPCOT the city died with him. The state knew what they were getting.

 

[StaceyH_SD]

If you go on Youtube there are plenty of videos of Walt showing what he had planned and the press conference with the Governor stating he did not want a sequel but something entirely new.

If the state of Florida did not like the arrangement they had anytime in the last 50+ years to dissolve it. They didn’t. In fact, the last time Florida reviewed doing just that - in 2004 I think? - they came to the conclusion that it was a benefit to both the state and Disney/the local area to keep the arrangement as is.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

If the state of Florida did not like the arrangement they had anytime in the last 50+ years to dissolve it. They didn’t. In fact, the last time Florida reviewed doing just that - in 2004 I think? - they came to the conclusion that it was a benefit to both the state and Disney/the local area to keep the arrangement as is.

I posted a ton of screenshots and proof from a 2004 report from the Office of Government Accountability where yes, they affirmed that RCID was serving its purpose.

Here's the link if anyone would like to give it a read.

https://oppaga.fl.gov/Documents/Reports/04-81.pdf

 

[Patcheslee]

Baseless speculation, but I’d even venture that the Board likely prefers the car and suburb focused urban design that still dominated in the mid-60s and not more contemporary urban design. I don’t buy for a second that any of these people actually believe there should be more affordable housing. Like everything, they likely see it as a punishment and it’s only a punishment because it’s something they view as undesirable.

Some of the meetings touch on finances and income. Of course if they build housing in the district, it becomes more income for them. They would have income from all the utilities associated with the properties along with rent.

 

[Stripes]

I posted a ton of screenshots and proof from a 2004 report from the Office of Government Accountability where yes, they affirmed that RCID was serving its purpose.

Here's the link if anyone would like to give it a read.

https://oppaga.fl.gov/Documents/Reports/04-81.pdf

And the reason the report was requested was because the legislative committee was concerned about the possibility that Comcast would acquire Disney and take the district in a new direction, thereby implying that they were happy with Disney’s control and concerned about the district potentially straying from its existing path.

 

[tissandtully]

Disney board banned X-rated stores and liquor shops from property, overlooking prisons

Before allies of Gov. Ron DeSantis took over, Disney World’s governing district reached an agreement in February with the company to prohibit a long list of businesses from ever being operated on its property. At the time, the board was controlled by Disney supporters. Forbidden establishments...

apnews.com

 

[Lilofan]

Disney board banned X-rated stores and liquor shops from property, overlooking prisons

Before allies of Gov. Ron DeSantis took over, Disney World’s governing district reached an agreement in February with the company to prohibit a long list of businesses from ever being operated on its property. At the time, the board was controlled by Disney supporters. Forbidden establishments...

apnews.com

Error in article, banned businesses included bowling alleys. I recall a location ( Splitsville ) that you could go bowling, drink and eat by AMC at Disney Springs years ago.

 

[mkt]

Disney board banned X-rated stores and liquor shops from property, overlooking prisons

Before allies of Gov. Ron DeSantis took over, Disney World’s governing district reached an agreement in February with the company to prohibit a long list of businesses from ever being operated on its property. At the time, the board was controlled by Disney supporters. Forbidden establishments...

apnews.com

Interestingly, there's the Target liquor store off of Herzog, which is still "on property"