News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[el_super]

Then Governor Kirk good enough?

What was the quote exactly? I didn't see it in that link.

 

[GimpYancIent]

They didn't create the community that they used as justification for creating municipalities and special taxing districts. That wasn't a fact that was really known or understood until the late 1970s into the 1980s, and it was into the 1980s that Orange Country first threatened to have the district dissolved. Would a judge have ruled that it was enough to dissolve the district? We won't know because Disney paid off the county to leave them alone.




I'm sort of saying both. Disney continually told the legislature that they were going forward with EPCOT and there was no reason to believe they were lying about their intentions. Stupid doesn't seem like the right word, but naive... maybe. Even if Disney had gone through with the EPCOT plan, and built their own experimental government, it still would have primarily served to drive tourists to the area, and that was always going to be the real benefit of having an experimental city to the state and the surrounding communities. Saying EPCOT would be nothing more than a tourist attraction really was to everyone's benefit.

You are right!

 

[MrPromey]

I believe it is time that the moderators ban you for campaigning on behalf of the state of Florida.

You disagree? I'm sorry that you disagree but on this news board you just need to go.

Slippery slope isn't?

Freedom of speech without retaliation is only important when the speech does not agree with your viewpoint.

It's exactly the same thing as Rhonda Santa's enacting "oversight" laws because Disney dared to campaign against a law he supported.

Only difference here is Steve is free to boot anyone from this board for any reason he deems, including waking up in a bad mood one day and feeling like taking it out on a random person. It's his site - his fiefdom and none of us have any rights here beyond what he explicitly grants us.

The state government and our Governor do not own us, though. They do not grant us first amendment rights. It is, so far, universally agreed that those rights are "inalienable" when it comes to government, therefore, those rights are not theirs to take away or stifle.

Which is why what is happening is much, much worse than even your example illustrates.

I know you get it but some people, for some reason, don't.

 

[mkt]

Disney expands lawsuit against DeSantis after governor signs bill to void land deals

The Disney-DeSantis feud began after Disney publicly criticized the controversial classroom bill dubbed "Don't Say Gay" by critics.

www.cnbc.com

 

[mkt]

Here's the amended complaint in Disney v DeSantis

 

[MrPromey]

Educate yourself. The first amendment applies to government actions. This is a private message board. There isn’t any first amendment rights on this board, or any other private board

He knows that - he was making a point with an imperfect example because a perfect one doesn't exist.

 

[MrPromey]

This board is made in....England.

Their weather may be iffy but their Disney fan site message boards really are top notch!

 

[mkt]

Their weather may be iffy but their Disney fan site message boards really are top notch!

They just drive them on the left and code it with marmite.

 

[MrPromey]

They just drive them on the left and code it with marmite.

As some Irish dude once said for the first time ever before anyone else* "... you get a tan from standing in the English rain"


*If that's not risking getting banned I don't know what is.

 

[JAB]

Or maybe we take him at face value. That this is a true expression of his vision of governance. Why should we continue to make excuses to make him look better? Because we’re stuck to this idea that he has to be really smart and wouldn’t really do the very things he is doing?

I think you misread my intent. I wasn't trying to "excuse" him, or make him "look better," and I don't necessarily hold any belief that he's "smart." It's just that, given he's currently being sued for violating the first amendment, his latest statements are so mind-bogglingly, obliviously stupid that it's almost too hard to believe, so I was just pondering what other explanations there might possibly be.

 

[GoofGoof]

Or maybe we take him at face value. That this is a true expression of his vision of governance. Why should we continue to make excuses to make him look better? Because we’re stuck to this idea that he has to be really smart and wouldn’t really do the very things he is doing?

This is what I was saying. It looks to me like he believes he should be allowed to punish Disney this way and doesn’t think he should have to hide it. He’s not hiding it because he doesn’t think there’s anything to hide, he is right. So while his supporters desperately cling to the narrative that RCID was flawed since day 1 and was a problem that needed to be dealt with in order to justify his actions he is not saying that himself. He doesn’t believe Disney or any other company/person has a right to free speech if that speech opposes him. He’s telling us he is speaking for the people and since he was re-elected that means whatever he does is in the name of the people.

My guess is there are some people who support all of this at least privately but many won’t do it publicly. Seems like most other authoritarian leaders throughout history.

 

[GrumpyFan]

DeSantis’ public statements are not stupid; they are calculated.

It comes down to a simple question: Would DeSantis rather win the Republican Primary or the Disney lawsuit?

NBC News covers his strategy in this May 8 article: Ron DeSantis bets big on his Disney feud

DeSantis cannot win the general if he doesn't win the primary, meaning he has to appeal to those "Ultra MAGA Republicans" President Biden rails against.

Earlier this year when it looked like Disney was just going to roll over and let DeSantis have his way, there was a view among some that this was bad for DeSantis. A victory in early 2023 is quickly forgotten by primary season.

By fighting back, Disney might very well be helping DeSantis among those he needs the most.

According to the previously mentioned NBC News article, three different surveys all say the same thing: Republicans are siding with DeSantis.

DeSantis doesn't particularly care who controls Disney. He just needs to keep the lawsuit alive through primary season.

It seems a very risky political move, if true, and I hate it.

 

[LAKid53]

What was the quote exactly? I didn't see it in that link.

Did you miss the prominently displayed banner behind Claude Kirk and Roy Disney?

 

[tissandtully]

It seems a very risky political move, if true, and I hate it.

All they have is risky political moves, no actual governing on real issues.

 

[GoofGoof]

DeSantis’ public statements are not stupid; they are calculated.

It comes down to a simple question: Would DeSantis rather win the Republican Primary or the Disney lawsuit?

NBC News covers his strategy in this May 8 article: Ron DeSantis bets big on his Disney feud

DeSantis cannot win the general if he doesn't win the primary, meaning he has to appeal to those "Ultra MAGA Republicans" President Biden rails against.

Earlier this year when it looked like Disney was just going to roll over and let DeSantis have his way, there was a view among some that this was bad for DeSantis. A victory in early 2023 is quickly forgotten by primary season.

By fighting back, Disney might very well be helping DeSantis among those he needs the most.

According to the previously mentioned NBC News article, three different surveys all say the same thing: Republicans are siding with DeSantis.

DeSantis doesn't particularly care who controls Disney. He just needs to keep the lawsuit alive through primary season.

The problem is he’s fading in the primary polls now. Go back a few months and DeSantis was polling further ahead of Biden in a head to head general election poll than Trump. Now it’s the opposite with Trump looking stronger than DeSantis. That decline in favorability vs Biden directly correlates to DeSantis dropping in the primary polls. Why? At least in part because some people just want someone who can beat Biden. He was supposed to be that guy, but moving further right to try to win the primary actually hurt DeSantis instead of helping him. He lost more people than he gained. It’s not just the Disney thing, but I think that is a big part of his national drop. Epic fail and miscalculation.

 

[el_super]

Did you miss the prominently displayed banner behind Claude Kirk and Roy Disney?

Yeah but at that point in time, Disney World still included EPCOT. I was looking to see if there was someone out there that voted on the enabling charter that later came back and said "we didn't care if they built EPCOT."

 

[Heppenheimer]

Oh, lord, yes. Nothing at all like MCO today.

I've flown out of enough military air bases to imagine what it must have been like.

 

[mikejs78]

DeSantis cannot win the general if he doesn't win the primary, meaning he has to appeal to those "Ultra MAGA Republicans" President Biden rails against.

By fighting back, Disney might very well be helping DeSantis among those he needs the most.

According to the previously mentioned NBC News article, three different surveys all say the same thing: Republicans are siding with DeSantis.

I think this is an overly-simplistic way of looking at it. DeSantis gained popularity initially because he was an alternative to Trump who didn't have the baggage of Trump. He was looked at as a sane alternative to the sizable minority in the GOP that doesn't like Trump. DeSantis needs to keep those people (which represent about 30-40% of the party, even today), plus win enough MAGA people over to get a plurality of delegates in the primary.

Even in the NBC article - yes, Republicans are siding with DeSantis at a rate of about 65%-35%. But DeSantis needs that 35% - most of that 35% would probably support more of a moderate and likely has a distaste for Trump. There's a large segment of that 65% who agree with him, but won't vote for anyone other than Trump. So by going ultra-MAGA by continuing this fight against Disney, DeSantis is betting he can not alienate that 35% and peel off enough of the 65% from Trump to win the nomination. That's questionable, and I think he's losing that 35%.

Not to mention the money angle. DeSantis doesn't have a personal war chest like Trump does, and so he needs money to finance a presidential campaign. And right now, the donor class is souring on him for a number of reasons, one of which is the Disney fiasco.

I think he's sabatoging himeslf for the primary as well as the general.

 

[Lilofan]

I think this is an overly-simplistic way of looking at it. DeSantis gained popularity initially because he was an alternative to Trump who didn't have the baggage of Trump. He was looked at as a sane alternative to the sizable minority in the GOP that doesn't like Trump. DeSantis needs to keep those people (which represent about 30-40% of the party, even today), plus win enough MAGA people over to get a plurality of delegates in the primary.

Even in the NBC article - yes, Republicans are siding with DeSantis at a rate of about 65%-35%. But DeSantis needs that 35% - most of that 35% would probably support more of a moderate and likely has a distaste for Trump. There's a large segment of that 65% who agree with him, but won't vote for anyone other than Trump. So by going ultra-MAGA by continuing this fight against Disney, DeSantis is betting he can not alienate that 35% and peel off enough of the 65% from Trump to win the nomination. That's questionable, and I think he's losing that 35%.

Not to mention the money angle. DeSantis doesn't have a personal war chest like Trump does, and so he needs money to finance a presidential campaign. And right now, the donor class is souring on him for a number of reasons, one of which is the Disney fiasco.

I think he's sabatoging himeslf for the primary as well as the general.

Forbes reported in 2022, DeSantis net worth was $320K and still had $20K in student loans. He clearly needs massive donations to pursue his dreams.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I think this is an overly-simplistic way of looking at it. DeSantis gained popularity initially because he was an alternative to Trump who didn't have the baggage of Trump. He was looked at as a sane alternative to the sizable minority in the GOP that doesn't like Trump. DeSantis needs to keep those people (which represent about 30-40% of the party, even today), plus win enough MAGA people over to get a plurality of delegates in the primary.

Even in the NBC article - yes, Republicans are siding with DeSantis at a rate of about 65%-35%. But DeSantis needs that 35% - most of that 35% would probably support more of a moderate and likely has a distaste for Trump. There's a large segment of that 65% who agree with him, but won't vote for anyone other than Trump. So by going ultra-MAGA by continuing this fight against Disney, DeSantis is betting he can not alienate that 35% and peel off enough of the 65% from Trump to win the nomination. That's questionable, and I think he's losing that 35%.

Not to mention the money angle. DeSantis doesn't have a personal war chest like Trump does, and so he needs money to finance a presidential campaign. And right now, the donor class is souring on him for a number of reasons, one of which is the Disney fiasco.

I think he's sabatoging himeslf for the primary as well as the general.

Negative partisanship is the strongest force in American politics. If DeSantis is the nominee, he'll have the 35% because more people will be voting against Biden than voting for the Republican, not matter who the Republican is, just like Biden voters will be voting against Trump more than voting for Biden.

The last person who won because people were voting for him rather than against his opponent was Obama in 2008.

Also, DeSantis has a bigger war chest than Trump.