News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
It's a pretty dim view of Florida politicians to think that they would have granted such powers had mention of EPCOT never been made, but to be honest, they don't seem all that bright these days either.

But the broader point is: we will never really know. Disney pitched the whole affair, creating the two municipalities and the district, on the premise that it was absolutely necessary to build EPCOT. They kept advertising EPCOT and talking it up in the press and privately among the lawmakers in the run up to get their charter passed. There is not a shred of evidence anywhere that they passed Disney's legislation, satisfied in knowing EPCOT wouldn't be built, and yet that bit of misinformation persists.
It's not a dim view at all if you choose to view this through the lens of the period in which all of this happened rather than from today.

Tourism was already our major business. Our state officials were well aware of Disney as an animation company and movie company and the company that owned Disneyland and who had a weekly show promoting that park on ABC across the nation.

What Disney was not was an urban planing company.

Disney was offering to turn central Florida, known mostly for cow pastures, costly-to-develop swamp land, and orange groves into a major tourism hub and Disney was willing to foot 100% of the bill to put the infrastructure in to get it all started.

There was the potential for free national weekly coverage of that wonderful theme park smack dab in the middle of Florida just like Anaheim was getting.

Even Universal jokingly acknowledged the state of this area pre-Disney in the Minion's movie.

The EPCOT thing was a wild dream - too wild of a dream as it turned out.

Walt had a saying "You can't top pigs with pigs" but he agreed to do that very thing in order to secure the control he was after over the land in Florida for his project. The MK was his concession to the state at the time. He had no plans for the sprawling WDW resort we have today with another three under-built theme parks, 13+ resorts, and timeshares out the wazoo.

All he'd ever built at that point was the Disneyland park and the guts for some World's Fair pavilions. His company hadn't even built the Disneyland Hotel.

I'm sure state officals were happy to get whatever they could with EPCOT (which probably would have been a disaster that bankrupted the company and definitely would not have lasted this long, even if it had been successful for 10-20 years) but MK was always the prize - the sure bet, the thing that was going to spur growth in Orlando and create a tourism bridge from east to west Florida; relatively close to port Canaveral which had promise as a cruse launch but which was still mostly dominated by commercial vessels and not too far from Tampa Bay which already was established as a tourist area - that's what made this whole project appealing to the state.

Tourism was concentrated to the coasts which was heavily subject to seasonal swings in business and where land was expesnive and scarce. This was a deal to bring some of that into the center where space was plentiful, land was cheap, and that theme park would be able to continue to draw people outside of beach weather seasons.

To suggest EPCOT was the carrot would be silly. Walt was who wanted EPCOT. Our state officials weren't that naive, even if he kind of was.

Would the RCID charter have been so robust without consideration to EPCOT?

Probably not but not because Disney somehow hoodwinked Florida - in fact, the Disney Co. ended up going in a direction that in all honesty, state officials would have been even more thrilled with from the start.

Walt wanted total control for EPCOT and the state wanted Disneyland East. The state was fine giving total control so Walt could have his project in exchange for their Disneyland. I'm pretty sure they would have had no problem granting it without EPCOT if Disney had wanted it just to build their theme park out there in the sticks but I don't think the Disney Co. would have, at the time, felt the need for such broad control if they weren't trying to figure out how to maintain development control of a city with residents that they effectively owned.

We all know Walt never got his EPCOT but the state got far more than we ever expected from the WDW resort and basically everything tourism related that you see in central Florida today bloomed from that initial deal with Disney - for better or worse.

Heck, Orlando International Airport started as the McCoy Air Force Base. It was in joint military/civilian use with the Air Force largely subsidizing its operation up until 1975. Disney is the reason it became a major international civilian facility.
 
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LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
It's not a dim view at all if you choose to view this through the lens of the period in which all of this happened rather than from today.

Tourism was already our major business. Our state officials were well aware of the Disney company as an animation company and movie company and the company that owned Disneyland and who had a weekly show promoting that park on ABC across the nation.

What Disney was not was an urban planing company.

Disney was offering to turn central Florida, known mostly for cow pastures, costly-to-develop swamp land, and orange groves into a major tourism hub and Disney was willing to foot 100% of the bill to put the infrastructure in to get it all started.

Even Universal jokingly acknowledged the state of this area pre-Disney in the Minion's movie.

The EPCOT thing was a wild dream - too wild of a dream as it turned out. Walt had a saying "You can't top pigs with pigs" but he agreed to do that very thing in order to secure the control he was after over the land in Florida for his project. The MK was his concession to the state at the time. He had no plans for the sprawling WDW resort we have today with another three under-built theme parks, 13+ resorts and timeshares out the wazoo.

All he'd ever built at that point was the Disneyland park and the guts for some Worlds Fair pavilions. I'm sure they were happy to get whatever they could with EPCOT (which probably would have been a disaster that bankrupted the company and definetly would not have lasted this long, even if it had been successful for 10-20 years) but MK was always the prize - the sure bet, the thing that was going to spur growth in Orlando and create a tourism bridge from east to west relatively close to port Canaveral which had promise as a cruse launching site but which was still mostly dominated by commercial vessels and not too far from Tampa Bay which already was established as a tourist area - that's what made this whole project appealing to the state.

To suggest EPCOT was the carrot would be silly. Our state officials weren't that nieve, even if Walt kind of was.

We all know Walt never got his EPCOT but the state got far more than we ever expected from the WDW resort and basically everything tourisim related that you see in central Florida today bloomed from that initial deal with Disney.

Heck Orlando International Airport started as the McCoy Air Force Base. It was in joint military/civilian use with the Air Force largely subsidizing its operation up until 1975. Disney is the reason it became a major international facility.

Bingo

And I flew through the pre-1975 Orlando Airport at least 6 times a year.
 

Dranth

Well-Known Member
to promote and create favorable conditions for the development and practical application of new and advanced concepts, designs and ideas for a recreation-oriented community and to undertake, and enable enterprises conducted within the District to undertake, a broad and flexible program of experimentation and development
Legit question, what part of this would you say Disney has not done? Do you not think a multi-theme park multi-water park, multi-resort with literally tens of thousands of hotel rooms does not fit the bill? It has to have people that rent apartment's or else it is failing in its charter? How many, what percentage? Why are these things not included? Why was there no stipulation on the amount of residents that had to included? Why did the very same law makers not come back later and strip the district when it became apparent that it was not going to happen?

The more plausible explanation is that Disney's lawyers knew that having permannent residents in EPCOT, under Disney's control was most likely unconstitutional, and they purposefully wrote the charter with the idea of referring to EPCOT's residents as temporary visitors, aka tourists.
So Disney was smart enough to know EPCOT wouldn't fly in it's original format but the state was too stupid? They still expected a city to be built or are you saying that both sides knew that tourists is what the whole thing was about? If so then mission accomplished, I would say the WDW complex gets a lot of "temporary visitors" and the state of Florida has benefited from those visitors while not having to pay for the WDW infrastructure.

Prove it. Cite a source where they (I am assuming the lawmakers at the time?) actually said that.
No need, I can just look at their actions which I believe say everything you need to know. If building EPCOT the city was what the state really wanted, they would have removed RCID decades ago. They didn't because they didn't care, or if they did, not enough to do anything about it.

Just going to throw this out there but you don't think it was left vague enough that Disney could go in many different directions? That the state may have been smart enough at the time to pass something that accounted for the "current" plan (though Walt was already dead by the time it was signed) but still allowed for a wide latitude if changes were needed?
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Legit question, what part of this would you say Disney has not done? Do you not think a multi-theme park multi-water park, multi-resort with literally tens of thousands of hotel rooms does not fit the bill? It has to have people that rent apartment's or else it is failing in its charter? How many, what percentage? Why are these things not included? Why was there no stipulation on the amount of residents that had to included? Why did the very same law makers not come back later and strip the district when it became apparent that it was not going to happen?


So Disney was smart enough to know EPCOT wouldn't fly in it's original format but the state was too stupid? They still expected a city to be built or are you saying that both sides knew that tourists is what the whole thing was about? If so then mission accomplished, I would say the WDW complex gets a lot of "temporary visitors" and the state of Florida has benefited from those visitors while not having to pay for the WDW infrastructure.


No need, I can just look at their actions which I believe say everything you need to know If building EPCOT the city was what the state really wanted, they would have removed RCID decades ago. They didn't because they didn't care, or if they did, not enough to do anything about it.

Just going to throw this out there but you don't think it was left vague enough that Disney could go in many different directions? That the state may have been smart enough at the time to pass something that accounted for the "current" plan (though Walt was already dead by the time it was signed) but still allowed for a wide latitude if changes were needed?

When Walt died, the EPCOT he planned died with him. At the time, no one was sure what would happen. Roy delayed retirement to develop the property. And WDW is his, not Walt's. I'm sure Roy being the smart business side of that duo knew that the charter needed to be more flexible and accommodate more than just Walt's vision of an EPCOT.
 

JAB

Well-Known Member
New update on the lawsuit from today

Who could have guessed when DeSantis said that silencing Disney's protected speech was "the most important thing" to him that Disney would use that to strengthen their lawsuit against him? Apparently not Ron.

At this point I'm starting to wonder if he really is that oblivious, or whether he's realized he's made a huge mistake but can't admit it without looking weak to his supporters so he's deliberately sabotaging his own case so he can walk back his attack on Disney while still pretending he wanted to fight but was stopped by "biased courts."
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
It has to have people that rent apartment's or else it is failing in its charter? How many, what percentage? Why are these things not included? Why was there no stipulation on the amount of residents that had to included?
Remember the rcid charter was not a multiparty agreement- there is no ‘you must…’ kind of language in there because it was creating and scoping the municipal entity - nothing more.

The charter itself only outlines the purpose of it, not what people are expected to do. The interpretation comes from the court case where the judge outlined the reasoning for the enitity and confirms the actions at that point fit that purpose and they were for the public good - and not just a single entity…. Confirming the validity of the bonds.

Florida never cried foul about the lack of a city — they were more happy with the millions of tourists and the explosive growth it brought.

This whole thing is literally trying to create a victim… who would not speak for themselves…. Because they don’t exist
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
It's funny to think that TIA was once the big travel airport in the area.

Orlando's airport at the time, to me, was a small step up from West Palm. But not as rinky dinky as Daytona.

I remember when the tram was installed at Orlando.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Which as he has shown is something he will do to exact revenge. The first bill that started this mess was a part of a special session, if memory serves.

I know. But he's going to be busy in a few months. And so will members of the Legislature, once qualifying begins. And if when members get back to their districts and there's a lot of negative reactions from their constituents, that's what they will care about in 2024.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Who could have guessed when DeSantis said that silencing Disney's protected speech was "the most important thing" to him that Disney would use that to strengthen their lawsuit against him? Apparently not Ron.

At this point I'm starting to wonder if he really is that oblivious, or whether he's realized he's made a huge mistake but can't admit it without looking weak to his supporters so he's deliberately sabotaging his own case so he can walk back his attack on Disney while still pretending he wanted to fight but was stopped by "biased courts."
I think it could also be a third option. He’s doubling down and making it crystal clear that he did this to retaliate which is a blatant violation of the first amendment. He thinks that the courts may be biased enough to rule in his favor anyway. If that happens he then has the green light to silence any critic by any means he desires. If he loses in court he’s no worse off then when this started from a governance standpoint.

I think he really is that oblivious from a PR standpoint. He definitely did not anticipate this action leading to what may be irreversible damage to his political reputation and still doesn’t appear to get it based in that interview. Win or lose the lawsuit he’s not viewed as electable in a general election now by a lot of people with deep pockets who were just waiting to write a check to anyone who would stand up and be an adult in the room. Bending over to pick up pennies from the far right base while millions fly over his head.
 

Disone

Well-Known Member
All of this doomsday, WWIII talk is all just an over reaction. No...the sky is NOT falling. Disney will learn to live under the Central Florida Tourism Oversight (whatever it's new name is).....just like the way Disneyland has learned to live with the city of Anaheim.

Yes....Disney gets REALL angry and upset when Anaheim tells them "no!". Yes...Disney gets furious when the sate of California tells them "no!" too. But, Disney eventually swallows their pride and learns how to be plenty profitable in the face of public oversight.

Disney has to deal with "no" in every place they have operations. France, China, Hong Kong, Florida, Japan and California. Yes...Disney hates to hear the word "no!" and they always gasp "how dare you tell us that?"

In Florida....Disney will be FINE! They will just ADAPT public oversight the same way they do everywhere else.
I believe it is time that the moderators ban you for campaigning on behalf of the state of Florida.

You disagree? I'm sorry that you disagree but on this news board you just need to go.

Slippery slope isn't?

Freedom of speech without retaliation is only important when the speech does not agree with your viewpoint.
 
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