News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[GoofGoof]

3.) I want Disney to he held to the exact same expectations that any other corporation in Florida...and also not be "targeted" unfairly or specifically too. Zero special "perks" that nobody else has.

This is not what is happening now. Disney is not being held to the exact same standard as anyone else. No other corporation in Florida has a special district that covers primarily just their land where they have no say in how the district is run and the Governor personally gets to decide who runs the district and what actions they take.

There are over 1,800 special districts in FL. Should all of those also be eliminated? Special districts are’t unique to FL either they exist in some form in most states. The purpose of the districts is not to perform general government function. That’s what the counties are for. Thee special districts have a narrowly defined and specific purpose as does RCID. If FL eliminated all special districts it would be a big negative to the state and the economy. They aren’t evil or unfair. RCID was one of the most successful private/public partnership in history. The district has provided so much more to the state and local taxpayers than it has for Disney.

Even without special districts many corporations have development agreements that streamline development and encourage growth. Universal has one. It’s not evil either. It helps encourage growth and investment in the state and county.

 

[GoofGoof]

It should be pointed out that these arguments were not from the opinion of the court, but rather from dissenting opinions.

I think that’s his point. He’s saying today‘s court more closely resembles the 2 justices who dissented than the 7 who voted yes. I still don’t think the Supreme Court wants anything to do with this case, but I guess we shall see.

 

[Stripes]

Easy way to understand me:

1,) This RCID move should have been done years ago. Long before the Parental Rights in Education Bill ever bacame a thing.

2.) MKT made a point. I do not want the RCID or ANY new district to be a puppet government for Disney or any other political force.

3.) I want Disney to he held to the exact same expectations that any other corporation in Florida...and also not be "targeted" unfairly or specifically too. Zero special "perks" that nobody else has.

If Disney wants to have a woke message? Fine, that will be up to the consumers to not buy Disney products. Its not the roll of govt. to take sides in the culture war in this way.

I'm right down the middle on this and that's something that is confusing to some people.

I dont think that Disney EVER should have been granted RCID...especially when they didnt build EPCOT like they said they would. EPCOT was the driver of the RCID idea and it was flawed from the start back in 1967.

Let’s be clear about one thing: Walt Disney World would never have existed without RCID. It was vital in order to facilitate the development of undeveloped swamp into a resort that attracts 60 million guests per year and directly employs 75,000 jobs, let alone the hundreds of thousands of indirect jobs.

Without Disney’s money paying for all the roads, sewer systems, electrical systems, etc. the resort would not have been possible. And without Disney having control over how their tax dollars were spent, they would never have agreed to build the resort.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Let’s be clear about one thing: Walt Disney World would never have existed without RCID. It was vital in order to facilitate the development of undeveloped swamp into a resort that attracts 60 million guests per year and directly employs 75,000 jobs, let alone the hundreds of thousands of indirect jobs.

Without Disney’s money paying for all the roads, sewer systems, electrical systems, etc. the resort would not have been possible. And without Disney having control over how their tax dollars were spent, they would never have agreed to build the resort.

All very nice, but the whole basis for wanting a special district with governing authority like a county was the Walt Disney plan for an EPCOT City not an amusement park. Prior to Mr. Disney's death the presentation to the Florida government was made about the development of EPCOT City (and actual community with residents) not an amusement park. What was proposed / presented is not what evolved.

 

[GoofGoof]

Let’s be clear about one thing: Walt Disney World would never have existed without RCID. It was vital in order to facilitate the development of undeveloped swamp into a resort that attracts 60 million guests per year and directly employs 75,000 jobs, let alone the hundreds of thousands of indirect jobs.

Without Disney’s money paying for all the roads, sewer systems, electrical systems, etc. the resort would not have been possible. And without Disney having control over how their tax dollars were spent, they would never have agreed to build the resort.

Yes and don’t forget that TWDC was much smaller in 1967. They had less access to cash than they have today so allowing them to finance the infrastructure through municipal dent really was essential. I’ve heard people say that Disney could have built the same infrastructure privately as they did using RCID but that ignores the muni debt. It’s a symbiotic relationship between the company and the state that was a huge win/win. Today RCID is politicized as an unfair advantage but in reality very few other corporations would have any desire to have anything similar to RCID.

All very nice, but the whole basis for wanting a special district with governing authority like a county was the Walt Disney plan for an EPCOT City not an amusement park. Prior to Mr. Disney's death the presentation to the Florida government was made about the development of EPCOT City (and actual community with residents) not an amusement park. What was proposed / presented is not what evolved.

You should go back and read the article @Chi84 posted that details the history of the district. EPCOT was not the whole basis for RCID.

 

[lazyboy97o]

All very nice, but the whole basis for wanting a special district with governing authority like a county was the Walt Disney plan for an EPCOT City not an amusement park. Prior to Mr. Disney's death the presentation to the Florida government was made about the development of EPCOT City (and actual community with residents) not an amusement park. What was proposed / presented is not what evolved.

This has been addressed many, many times. Reedy Creek Improvement District was not predicated on a city being developed. Its purpose was to develop tourism, one that was reiterated by the Supreme Court in 1968 and again by the legislature in 2004.

 

[lazyboy97o]

3.) I want Disney to he held to the exact same expectations that any other corporation in Florida...and also not be "targeted" unfairly or specifically too. Zero special "perks" that nobody else has.

What expectations was Disney not held to?

 

[scottieRoss]

Easy way to understand me:

1,) This RCID move should have been done years ago. Long before the Parental Rights in Education Bill ever bacame a thing.

2.) MKT made a point. I do not want the RCID or ANY new district to be a puppet government for Disney or any other political force.

3.) I want Disney to he held to the exact same expectations that any other corporation in Florida...and also not be "targeted" unfairly or specifically too. Zero special "perks" that nobody else has.

If Disney wants to have a woke message? Fine, that will be up to the consumers to not buy Disney products. Its not the roll of govt. to take sides in the culture war in this way.

I'm right down the middle on this and that's something that is confusing to some people.

I dont think that Disney EVER should have been granted RCID...especially when they didnt build EPCOT like they said they would. EPCOT was the driver of the RCID idea and it was flawed from the start back in 1967.

1) But they brought it up to punish Disney for their speech, have been clear in saying that is why they are doing it, and finally the emails show that they specifically tried to hide it from Disney to make the punishment a surprise. The Governor told the legislative leadership that he called the special session for one reason and not to tell anyone he was going to change it on the day it convened to dissolve the RCID.
2)The fact that you call it a puppet government displays that you do not understand the structure our purpose of the District. The purpose is to serve Disney in the role of promoting tourism and economic development. It is not there to punish Disney, control their content, or any other reason.
3) Then compare it to any other development in Florida that has 91,000 employees. (75,000 Disney castmembers and 15,000 employed by other companies within the District. But if you want to treat them like other amusement parks, then make sure you appoint a board to oversee the district that Universal is in and the district they have asked for. Make sure those special districts are named Oversight Boards when their charters are not to provide oversight. You know, like the RCID charter is not to provide oversight.
Finally, regarding your comment about RCID being created for about Epcot, you seem to not have read the charter. Epcot is not mentioned in the charter. But Disney did build an experimental prototype community of tomorrow within the District in that little area known as Celebration. And they built the community for the Uber rich called Golden Oak. And do not forget the affordable housing at the north edge of the District and at Flamingo Crossings.

 

[Stripes]

All very nice, but the whole basis for wanting a special district with governing authority like a county was the Walt Disney plan for an EPCOT City not an amusement park. Prior to Mr. Disney's death the presentation to the Florida government was made about the development of EPCOT City (and actual community with residents) not an amusement park. What was proposed / presented is not what evolved.

Even if EPCOT was developed, Disney’s plan was always to rent the homes to tenants but still own the properties, thereby keeping control as primary landowner.

Regardless, the Florida Supreme Court validated the public purpose of the district when they stated that the purpose was to “promote recreation-oriented projects, economic development, and tourism within district boundaries.” Nothing was said in regards to residential development.

 

[GimpYancIent]

This has been addressed many, many times. Reedy Creek Improvement District was not predicated on a city being developed. Its purpose was to develop tourism, one that was reiterated by the Supreme Court in 1968 and again by the legislature in 2004.

Yes, addressed many times and with many volumes of discussion. You cherry pick what you want. There are many references and quotable references. The core fact that EPCOT's original (documented in prior to color film, by Mr. Disney himself) concept was for an actual community, of course tourism was welcome enjoy this community.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes, addressed many times and with many volumes of discussion. You cherry pick what you want. There are many references and quotable references. The core fact that EPCOT's original (documented in prior to color film, by Mr. Disney himself) concept was for an actual community, of course tourism was welcome enjoy this community.

What was cherry picked? Nobody has denied Walt’s interest in EPCOT. Walt though was dead and the District was not just about a city Disney didn’t delivery.

 

[GimpYancIent]

What was cherry picked? Nobody has denied Walt’s interest in EPCOT. Walt though was dead and the District was not just about a city Disney didn’t delivery.

Finaly! You are correct "Disney didn't deliver"!

 

[Brian]

Perhaps we can acknowledge that, notwithstanding the original intent of RCID being, in part, to build a city (EPCOT) and that though it didn't turn out, RCID was still critical to the development of WDW, as neither the state nor the company had the resources necessary to create the infrastructure needed to support such a project.

In 2023, the same can't be said. The company is wealthy beyond Walt and Roy's wildest imagination, and could develop a WDW-like project in a similar environment (ground-up infrastructure), if they were so inclined. They also have enough financial resources to support themselves without needing RCID to continue the operation of WDW; the only barrier to dissolution (done fairly, and without retaliation), in my mind, are the existing bonds.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Perhaps we can acknowledge that, notwithstanding the original intent of RCID being, in part, to build a city (EPCOT) and that though it didn't turn out, RCID was still critical to the development of WDW, as neither the state nor the company had the resources necessary to create the infrastructure needed to support such a project.

In 2023, the same can't be said. The company is wealthy beyond Walt and Roy's wildest imagination, and could develop a WDW-like project in a similar environment (ground-up infrastructure), if they were so inclined. They also have enough financial resources to support themselves without needing RCID to continue the operation of WDW; the only barrier to dissolution (done fairly, and without retaliation), in my mind, are the existing bonds.

Yes, exactly! The obstacle in a word "bond's".

 

[GoofGoof]

Perhaps we can acknowledge that, notwithstanding the original intent of RCID being, in part, to build a city (EPCOT) and that though it didn't turn out, RCID was still critical to the development of WDW, as neither the state nor the company had the resources necessary to create the infrastructure needed to support such a project.

In 2023, the same can't be said. The company is wealthy beyond Walt and Roy's wildest imagination, and could develop a WDW-like project in a similar environment (ground-up infrastructure), if they were so inclined. They also have enough financial resources to support themselves without needing RCID to continue the operation of WDW; the only barrier to dissolution (done fairly, and without retaliation), in my mind, are the existing bonds.

I don’t think many people who actually understand the history would disagree with anything you said here. Yes, RCID was essential to WDW. Yes, TWDC today doesn’t need RCID to continue operating WDW. I agree on both points.

However, not needing RCID is not a reason to dissolve it. Comcast is also a wealthy corporation. They don’t need a special district for Universal. Many other wealthy corporations accept tax incentives to bring jobs to the state. RCID could have been dissolved at any point over the last 50+ years if a real plan was created. The bonds are a problem if you want immediate dissolution which was only necessary for political gain. The biggest losers if you dissolve RCID are the taxpayers in Orange and Osceola counties with Disney a very distant third. I can’t think of anyone who benefits from it though. Certainly not local taxpayers. Disney’s competitors gain nothing. The state gets no additional tax dollars. It’s just a loss for some with no win.

 

[Rich Brownn]

All very nice, but the whole basis for wanting a special district with governing authority like a county was the Walt Disney plan for an EPCOT City not an amusement park. Prior to Mr. Disney's death the presentation to the Florida government was made about the development of EPCOT City (and actual community with residents) not an amusement park. What was proposed / presented is not what evolved.

EPCOT was as pie-in-the-sky unworkable idea. Even Walt himself emphisized plans could change. And even if EPCOT hadn't been on the table, WDW could not have existed without RCID. There was simply not enough public tax income in Orange County in 1971 to build miles of roads, canals, sewage systems, etc. to make WDW workable.

 

[LAKid53]

Is it possible that the majority of Legislators are not supporting this because they "pressured" into it...but because the sincerely AGREE with this district change?

We act like DeSantis forced these people to do it. I suspect this is not the case and they "wanted" to do this. Its easy to blame DeSantis as a sole "king"...but the legislators seemed to be on board with the concept.

It was easy....if a company doesnt donate to a party...you lose the "loyalty" you once paid for.

They've had 56 years to make that change. They did not prior to this. According to DeSantis himself, he was unaware that RCID even existed prior to this.

 

[Dranth]

Finaly! You are correct "Disney didn't deliver"!

If RCID helped to facilitate and grow tourism then it was doing exactly what the state said it should do. If the form it takes was SO important, the state would have insisted it was written into the charter. It wasn't and since it went into effect the state has acknowledged though both the legislature and the state supreme court that it is doing what was intended.

This is what keeps blowing my mind. RCID doesn't have the powers of a government, it has LIMITED powers designed to ensure the local communities don't pay for a private companies stuff. Who cares if they have complete control. They can't use it to profit, they can't use it to for rides, they can't use it to pay park staff or give execs bonuses, JUST public infrastructure.

There were some abilities RCID had that people didn't like but the district never used them. They didn't build an airport, they didn't build a nuclear power plant and the state could have EASILY worked with Disney to remove those so anyone uncomfortable about it wouldn't have to sit up at night.

Honestly, someone please explain to me how the district as it was, was not helping to promote tourism? How is Disney not having local taxpayers and counties pay for all of their infrastructure a bad thing? How is Disney having what amounts to an HOA for their OWN land an issue?

 

[LAKid53]

EPCOT was as pie-in-the-sky unworkable idea. Even Walt himself emphisized plans could change. And even if EPCOT hadn't been on the table, WDW could not have existed without RCID. There was simply not enough public tax income in Orange County in 1971 to build miles of roads, canals, sewage systems, etc. to make WDW workable.

People forget this fact. RCID allowed TWDC to create a 43 square mile "city" from the ground up. And not burden either the local governments, taxpayers or the state to do so.

Again, it was a symbiotic relationship with the counties and state. It WASN'T broken.

 

[LAKid53]

If RCID helped to facilitate and grow tourism then it was doing exactly what the state said it should do. If the form it takes was SO important, the state would have insisted it was written into the charter. It wasn't and since it went into effect the state has acknowledged though both the legislature and the state supreme court that it is doing what was intended.

This is what keeps blowing my mind. RCID doesn't have the powers of a government, it has LIMITED powers designed to ensure the local communities don't pay for a privates companies stuff. Who cares if they have complete control. They can't use it to profit, they can't use it to for rides, they can't use it to pay park staff or give execs bonuses, JUST public infrastructure.

There were some abilities RCID had that people didn't like but the district never used them. They didn't build an airport, they didn't build a nuclear power plant and the state could have EASILY worked with Disney to remove those so anyone uncomfortable about it wouldn't have to sit up at night.

Honestly, someone please explain to me how the district as it was, was not helping to promote tourism? How is Disney not having local taxpayers and counties pay for all of their infrastructure a bad thing? How is Disney having what amounts to an HOA for their OWN land an issue?

As a property owner in Orange County, it's not. Me and the other 1.4 million residents of the county are grateful.