News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[GoofGoof]

Perhaps we can acknowledge that, notwithstanding the original intent of RCID being, in part, to build a city (EPCOT) and that though it didn't turn out, RCID was still critical to the development of WDW, as neither the state nor the company had the resources necessary to create the infrastructure needed to support such a project.

In 2023, the same can't be said. The company is wealthy beyond Walt and Roy's wildest imagination, and could develop a WDW-like project in a similar environment (ground-up infrastructure), if they were so inclined. They also have enough financial resources to support themselves without needing RCID to continue the operation of WDW; the only barrier to dissolution (done fairly, and without retaliation), in my mind, are the existing bonds.

I don’t think many people who actually understand the history would disagree with anything you said here. Yes, RCID was essential to WDW. Yes, TWDC today doesn’t need RCID to continue operating WDW. I agree on both points.

However, not needing RCID is not a reason to dissolve it. Comcast is also a wealthy corporation. They don’t need a special district for Universal. Many other wealthy corporations accept tax incentives to bring jobs to the state. RCID could have been dissolved at any point over the last 50+ years if a real plan was created. The bonds are a problem if you want immediate dissolution which was only necessary for political gain. The biggest losers if you dissolve RCID are the taxpayers in Orange and Osceola counties with Disney a very distant third. I can’t think of anyone who benefits from it though. Certainly not local taxpayers. Disney’s competitors gain nothing. The state gets no additional tax dollars. It’s just a loss for some with no win.

 

[Rich Brownn]

All very nice, but the whole basis for wanting a special district with governing authority like a county was the Walt Disney plan for an EPCOT City not an amusement park. Prior to Mr. Disney's death the presentation to the Florida government was made about the development of EPCOT City (and actual community with residents) not an amusement park. What was proposed / presented is not what evolved.

EPCOT was as pie-in-the-sky unworkable idea. Even Walt himself emphisized plans could change. And even if EPCOT hadn't been on the table, WDW could not have existed without RCID. There was simply not enough public tax income in Orange County in 1971 to build miles of roads, canals, sewage systems, etc. to make WDW workable.

 

[LAKid53]

Is it possible that the majority of Legislators are not supporting this because they "pressured" into it...but because the sincerely AGREE with this district change?

We act like DeSantis forced these people to do it. I suspect this is not the case and they "wanted" to do this. Its easy to blame DeSantis as a sole "king"...but the legislators seemed to be on board with the concept.

It was easy....if a company doesnt donate to a party...you lose the "loyalty" you once paid for.

They've had 56 years to make that change. They did not prior to this. According to DeSantis himself, he was unaware that RCID even existed prior to this.

 

[Dranth]

Finaly! You are correct "Disney didn't deliver"!

If RCID helped to facilitate and grow tourism then it was doing exactly what the state said it should do. If the form it takes was SO important, the state would have insisted it was written into the charter. It wasn't and since it went into effect the state has acknowledged though both the legislature and the state supreme court that it is doing what was intended.

This is what keeps blowing my mind. RCID doesn't have the powers of a government, it has LIMITED powers designed to ensure the local communities don't pay for a private companies stuff. Who cares if they have complete control. They can't use it to profit, they can't use it to for rides, they can't use it to pay park staff or give execs bonuses, JUST public infrastructure.

There were some abilities RCID had that people didn't like but the district never used them. They didn't build an airport, they didn't build a nuclear power plant and the state could have EASILY worked with Disney to remove those so anyone uncomfortable about it wouldn't have to sit up at night.

Honestly, someone please explain to me how the district as it was, was not helping to promote tourism? How is Disney not having local taxpayers and counties pay for all of their infrastructure a bad thing? How is Disney having what amounts to an HOA for their OWN land an issue?

 

[LAKid53]

EPCOT was as pie-in-the-sky unworkable idea. Even Walt himself emphisized plans could change. And even if EPCOT hadn't been on the table, WDW could not have existed without RCID. There was simply not enough public tax income in Orange County in 1971 to build miles of roads, canals, sewage systems, etc. to make WDW workable.

People forget this fact. RCID allowed TWDC to create a 43 square mile "city" from the ground up. And not burden either the local governments, taxpayers or the state to do so.

Again, it was a symbiotic relationship with the counties and state. It WASN'T broken.

 

[LAKid53]

If RCID helped to facilitate and grow tourism then it was doing exactly what the state said it should do. If the form it takes was SO important, the state would have insisted it was written into the charter. It wasn't and since it went into effect the state has acknowledged though both the legislature and the state supreme court that it is doing what was intended.

This is what keeps blowing my mind. RCID doesn't have the powers of a government, it has LIMITED powers designed to ensure the local communities don't pay for a privates companies stuff. Who cares if they have complete control. They can't use it to profit, they can't use it to for rides, they can't use it to pay park staff or give execs bonuses, JUST public infrastructure.

There were some abilities RCID had that people didn't like but the district never used them. They didn't build an airport, they didn't build a nuclear power plant and the state could have EASILY worked with Disney to remove those so anyone uncomfortable about it wouldn't have to sit up at night.

Honestly, someone please explain to me how the district as it was, was not helping to promote tourism? How is Disney not having local taxpayers and counties pay for all of their infrastructure a bad thing? How is Disney having what amounts to an HOA for their OWN land an issue?

As a property owner in Orange County, it's not. Me and the other 1.4 million residents of the county are grateful.

 

[Cliff]

Let’s be clear about one thing: Walt Disney World would never have existed without RCID. It was vital in order to facilitate the development of undeveloped swamp into a resort that attracts 60 million guests per year and directly employs 75,000 jobs, let alone the hundreds of thousands of indirect jobs.

Without Disney’s money paying for all the roads, sewer systems, electrical systems, etc. the resort would not have been possible. And without Disney having control over how their tax dollars were spent, they would never have agreed to build the resort.

I do not subscribe to that. Every area that Disney has ever built a park, the surrounding area exploded and grew. If RCID was never estabilished, the surrounding counties and the state would have promoted the development of the theme parks and hotels. They grew because of pop-culture demand and there was a profit/loss business model that drove it.

Again...RCID was estabilished for the purpose of supporting the AGRESSIVE idea of the Experimental Prototype City of Tomorrow. This was a GIGANTIC futuristic functioning CITY with THOUSANDS of actual "RESIDENTS"...actually LIVING in the city!!

If Disney had told the state "before" they estabilished RCID in 1967...that EPCOT would NEVER be built and that only a theme park would be built...the state would have said "nope".

Special taxing districts are great...like The Villages...when you have thousands of real people LIVING there...

 

[GoofGoof]

Yes, exactly! The obstacle in a word "bond's".

If the state decided it was time to dissolve RCID they could have addressed the bonds using a gradual approach. Stop issuing new bonds as much as possible and pay down some of the existing debt. They could start transitioning services and assets slowly to the counties which would have to happen anyway. Doing it gradually would avoid the 25% tax increase they were facing under last year’s flawed plan. It would still result in the counties carrying a significant burden for those services. The state should have worked with Disney and the counties to develop a plan like this. Disney would get a major tax break but would lose control of development to the counties. I’m sure a compromise could have been worked out where maybe the counties signed a development agreement with Disney and Disney agreed to take certain services private.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If the state decided it was time to dissolve RCID they could have addressed the bonds using a gradual approach. Stop issuing new bonds as much as possible and pay down some of the existing debt. They could start transitioning services and assets slowly to the counties which would have to happen anyway. Doing it gradually would avoid the 25% tax increase they were facing under last year’s flawed plan. It would still result in the counties carrying a significant burden for those services. The state should have worked with Disney and the counties to develop a plan like this. Disney would get a major tax break but would lose control of development to the counties. I’m sure a compromise could have been worked out where maybe the counties signed a development agreement with Disney and Disney agreed to take certain services private.

The cities still exist. They are what stops the counties from being able to create tax districts to pay for services. The cities would still have authority over land use. Dissolving the district doesn’t shift control to the counties.

 

[GoofGoof]

I do not subscribe to that. Every area that Disney has ever built a park, the surrounding area exploded and grew. If RCID was never estabilished, the surrounding counties and the state would have promoted the development of the theme parks and hotels. They grew because of pop-culture demand and there was a profit/loss business model that drove it.

Again...RCID was estabilished for the purpose of supporting the AGRESSIVE idea of the Experimental Prototype City of Tomorrow. This was a GIGANTIC futuristic functioning CITY with THOUSANDS of actual "RESIDENTS"...actually LIVING in the city!!

If Disney had told the state "before" they estabilished RCID in 1967...that EPCOT would NEVER be built and that only a theme park would be built...the state would have said "nope".

Special taxing districts are great...like The Villages...when you have thousands of real people LIVING there...

The FL Supreme Court disagrees with you on the purpose of RCID. If you are really interested in learning the actual history I can post something to read, but I suspect you don’t have any interest.

 

[GoofGoof]

The cities still exist. They are what stops the counties from being able to create tax districts to pay for services. The cities would still have authority over land use. Dissolving the district doesn’t shift control to the counties.

That could be addressed too. If Disney was working with the state on a plan it wouldn’t be an issue.

 

[LAKid53]

I do not subscribe to that. Every area that Disney has ever built a park, the surrounding area exploded and grew. If RCID was never estabilished, the surrounding counties and the state would have promoted the development of the theme parks and hotels. They grew because of pop-culture demand and there was a profit/loss business model that drove it.

Again...RCID was estabilished for the purpose of supporting the AGRESSIVE idea of the Experimental Prototype City of Tomorrow. This was a GIGANTIC futuristic functioning CITY with THOUSANDS of actual "RESIDENTS"...actually LIVING in the city!!

If Disney had told the stare "before" they estabilished RCID in 1967...that EPCOT would never be built and that only a theme park would be built...the state would have said "nope".

Special taxing districts are great...like The Villages...when you have thousands of real people LIVING there...

1. Walt was DEAD and had been so for 5 months, when the state, by legislative act, created RCID. His dream of an Experimental Prototype City Of Tomorrow died with him. EPCOT wasn't the only project planned.

2. Walt WANTED to control development around his next park, given what happened in Anaheim after 1955. Seedy hotels lined Harbour Freeway. Neighborhoods butt up to DLR's boundaries. One reason he decided to build his next project in Central Florida and purchased some 27,000 acres.

Eventually the Anaheim Tourism Improvement District was created to enhance tourism and hotel stays. Anaheim Resort Transportation was created to provide mass transportation to/in the Anaheim Resort area and surrounding destinations, like Angel Stadium.

3. The state still would have created RCID. They wanted Disney's project. They wanted the tourism dollars they knew a Disney park would generate.

 

[RamblinWreck]

The trolls are taking this way off topic again

 

[mikejs78]

I do not subscribe to that. Every area that Disney has ever built a park, the surrounding area exploded and grew. If RCID was never estabilished, the surrounding counties and the state would have promoted the development of the theme parks and hotels.

The counties and state did not have the means to build the infrastructure Disney needed in 1967. If RCID didn't exist, WDW wouldn't have been built. Remember, WDW is about 51x the size of Disneyland.

Also, RCID can't be dissolved. Even without the bond issue, there's the matter of taxes. No district, and all those services get paid for by the taxpayers instead of Disney. Is that your preference?

 

[Stripes]

I do not subscribe to that. Every area that Disney has ever built a park, the surrounding area exploded and grew. If RCID was never estabilished, the surrounding counties and the state would have promoted the development of the theme parks and hotels. They grew because of pop-culture demand and there was a profit/loss business model that drove it

There isn’t another Disney property that encompasses nearly 30,000 acres. Walt Disney bought all this land with the intention of preventing the blight that comes with attracting money to the area. What incentive would the state have to invest in building up Disney’s property if the benefit to nearby taxpayers and businesses was relatively minor?

Anaheim created the Anaheim Tourism Improvement District, but they did it primarily for the benefit of the businesses that surround the Disneyland Resort. What businesses surround the Magic Kingdom?

 

[flynnibus]

I dont think that Disney EVER should have been granted RCID...especially when they didnt build EPCOT like they said they would. EPCOT was the driver of the RCID idea and it was flawed from the start back in 1967.

No epcot was not the driver of rcid - development and control were

And your ideal of no perks… so you are against your government getting involved in encouraging prosperity for its citizens?

No tax breaks? No incentives? Sit on their hands?

 

[flynnibus]

All very nice, but the whole basis for wanting a special district with governing authority like a county was the Walt Disney plan for an EPCOT City not an amusement park.

Categorically false

 

[flynnibus]

Yes, addressed many times and with many volumes of discussion. You cherry pick what you want. There are many references and quotable references. The core fact that EPCOT's original (documented in prior to color film, by Mr. Disney himself) concept was for an actual community, of course tourism was welcome enjoy this community.

Even more convincing is the research into the project future seminar where the special district concept was proposed and why. No cherry picking needed. You instead chose to continue to repeat this distortion because it suits your predisposition that it should be removed on the premis epcot didn’t happen.

This is all fiction

 

[GoofGoof]

Also, RCID can't be dissolved. Even without the bond issue, there's the matter of taxes. No district, and all those services get paid for by the taxpayers instead of Disney. Is that your preference?

100% this ^ The district can legally be dissolved by the legislature at any time. The fallout from it would be devastating for local taxpayers and I have not heard a single valid benefit to dissolving it. So just because it can be done doesn’t mean it should.

 

[flynnibus]

In 2023, the same can't be said. The company is wealthy beyond Walt and Roy's wildest imagination, and could develop a WDW-like project in a similar environment (ground-up infrastructure), if they were so inclined. They also have enough financial resources to support themselves without needing RCID to continue the operation of WDW; the only barrier to dissolution (done fairly, and without retaliation), in my mind, are the existing bonds.

In 2023, Can you name any similar project that does as you claim at this scale?