News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
And conveniently obscuring point #1 by your conclusions on point #2

Point #1 has merit on its own as well…. So stop trying to declare it immaterial because of your point#2 interpretation. #1 (notice) has its own requirements and interpretation of those
It has a merit, but not one that typically completely negates a process on its own. There are other situations where this has even been specified by the legislature. The issue would still have to be raised by a property owner who feels they are affected and should have been notified. The board declaring after the fact that they missed relevant parties is a hypothetical.

Well they may find themselves civilly liable for the mistake… but I can’t see how a change of management results in a pass on their requirements for everyone else. That would be an ever bigger loophole.

Don’t follow the rules… so that if caught… you just say ‘well it didn’t hurt anyone so who cares about the rules’??
Government officials can be held personally liable for failure to comply with the Sunshine Law.

But also there are a lot ways in which not following the rules results in exactly what you describe. The legislators and governor will not be punished if they pass the agreement voided legislation and it is found that they didn’t follow the rules prevent the impairment of contracts. This would be after breaking the rule that you can’t use the government to punish speech.
 

Heath

Active Member
This is all beside the point. Bad business or PR decisions (if those are indeed what Disney is making) are an entirely separate matter from government retaliation. Customers can retaliate by spending their dollars elsewhere; politicians, however, are not supposed to use the law to punish a company for disagreeing with them.
My post is replying specially to another persons post to me. In its context it has its own point to that specific message. I don’t think I understand how these threads work,
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Correct. In my rush to post from my phone I didn't clarify what I meant. The CFTOD board members weren't a party to the contract at the time it was approved and signed. They are a party to it now because they inherited the obligations of the previous board, but that doesn't give them the ability to unilaterally void the contract based on the previous board's alleged failures.

Agree
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
But if the board itself entered into the agreement how could it challenge its own lack of compliance? Who was required to send the notices?
Same way the state sued over the district’s bond authority even tho the state is the one that granted it? :)

The agency can conflict with its own past actions.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Sure they can… and will. There is no force to stop them but their own legal counsel.

The point isn’t what they can, but what will stand a legal challenge.

Basically disney is gonna have to sue to get them to acknowledge the deal… because the district is just going to ignore it and will resort to fines and other enforcement measures if disney tries to proceed without the district (which they would not do I believe).

Disney is going to have to sue or walk away from that deal after next week’s meeting
Could Disney challenge right away? The board can say things, and that’s really all their declaration will be, just them saying something. Would Disney have to wait until after land development regulations are modified and then prohibited from acting by the district? It seems if the Board was smart they could actually delay Disney’s ability to act.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
They don’t need to do anything. If the agreement was entered into in violation of the state’s open meetings laws, the contract is not binding. They can take an official action to deem the agreement null and void, and force WDPR to sue.

Section 286.011, provides that no resolution, rule, regulation or formal action shall be considered binding except as taken or made at an open meeting. They can find, and self-assert, that the agreement was entered into in violation of the open meeting act. The correction, if they so choose, is a curative attempt to have the meetings appropriately publicly noticed.

163.3235 even enables them to unilaterally revoke a development agreement If they find competent evidence of failure to comply.
I disagree with this interpretation. Compliance with the sunshine law’s requirement of open meetings requires only reasonable notice.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Could Disney challenge right away? The board can say things, and that’s really all their declaration will be, just them saying something. Would Disney have to wait until after land development regulations are modified and then prohibited from acting by the district? It seems if the Board was smart they could actually delay Disney’s ability to act.
I’d imagine the resolution itself would be enough.

This isn’t the district quiet quitting the deal… they are taking direct action to tear it up

But leave that for the lawyers i guess
 

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
Imagine forcing everyone to accept something someone did illegally….
Any landowner who feels they have a valid case for being negatively impacted has the right to challenge the agreement in court based on the alleged lack of mailing, correct? So nobody is forced to accept it unless they decide to challenge it and lose. Conversely, why punish Disney for someone else's alleged failure to mail the notices, especially when the notices were published in the local paper and the contracts discussed at public hearings? If no landowners are negatively impacted then Disney shouldn't suffer. The spirit of the law matters.
 
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LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Enforcement and compliance relate the to the terms of the agreement. They can force Disney to do something or argue that Disney isn’t doing what they are supposed to be doing. The District’s own failure to provide notice is not an issue of enforcement or compliance with the terms of the agreement.

And as you point out, even if that were the case, the avenue to do so is through the courts. There is no provision that allows a party to unilaterally declare the agreement null and void, and 163.3237 specifically requires mutual consent to cancel an agreement. There is no statute that gives special districts the power to cancel contracts. In fact, the power to cancel contracts is specifically prohibited by the state and federal constitutions.

Glad you brought up Section 163.3237. It would preclude the new Board or TWDC moving ahead with or canceling the Agreement without consent of other parcel owners who were party to the original agreement if said acts "directly modifies the allowable uses or entitlements of such owners’ property."

So if the Board's threat to nullify the agreement would modify the entitlements of the property owners within the District's boundaries, those property owners have grounds.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
it’s not hypothetical. It’s recommended the local government hold rehearings to fix the failure to provide notice
From the state’s Sunshine Law guide:

Where, however, a public board or commission does not merely perfunctorily ratify or ceremoniously accept at a later open meeting those decisions which were made at an earlier secret meeting but rather takes “independent final action in the sunshine,” the decision of the board or commission will not be disturbed. Tolar v. School Board of Liberty County, 398 So. 2d 427, 429 (Fla. 1981). Accord Bruckner v. City of Dania Beach, 823 So. 2d 167, 171 (Fla. 4th DCA 2002) (Sunshine violations “can be cured by independent, final action completely in the Sunshine”). And see Monroe County v. Pigeon Key Historical Park, Inc., 647 So. 2d 857, 861 (Fla. 3d DCA 1994) (adoption of the open government constitutional amendment, Art. I, s. 24, Fla. Const., did not overrule the Tolar “standard of remediation”). Cf. Board of County Commissioners of Sarasota County v. Webber, 658 So. 2d 1069 (Fla. 2d DCA 1995) (no evidence suggesting that board members met in secret during a recess to reconsider and deny a variance and then perfunctorily ratified this decision at the public hearing held a few minutes later); B.M.Z. Corporation v. City of Oakland Park, 415 So. 2d 735 (Fla. 4th DCA 1982) (where no evidence that any decision was made in private, subsequent formal action in sunshine was not merely perfunctory ratification of secret decisions or ceremonial acceptance of secret actions).
Thus, in a case involving the validity of a lease approved by a board of county commissioners after an advisory committee held two unnoticed meetings regarding the lease, a court held that the Sunshine Law violations were cured when the board of county commissioners held open public hearings after the unnoticed meetings, an effort was made to make available to the public the minutes of the unnoticed meetings, the board approved a lease that was markedly different from that recommended by the advisory committee, and most of the lease negotiations were conducted after the advisory committee had concluded its work. Monroe County v. Pigeon Key Historical Park, Inc., 647 So. 2d 857, 860-861 (Fla. 3d DCA 1994).
Similarly, a school board remedied an inadvertent violation of the Sunshine Law when it subsequently held full, open and independent public hearings prior to adopting a redistricting plan. Finch v. Seminole County School Board, 995 So. 2d 1068, 1073 (Fla. 5th DCA 2008). And see Sarasota Citizens for Responsible Government v. City of Sarasota, 48 So. 3d 755 (Fla. 2010) (any possible violations that occurred when county commissioners circulated e-mails among each other were cured by four subsequent public meetings involving discussion of multiple proposals); Jackson v. City of Tallahassee, 265 So. 3d 736 (Fla. 1st DCA 2019) (public city commission meeting to fill a vacancy on the commission, which included a full discussion of the appointment, candidate presentations, more than an hour of public comment, and numerous speakers, cured any purported violation that may have occurred during the application process). Cf. Anderson v. City of St. Pete Beach, 161 So. 3d 548, 553-554 (Fla. 2d DCA 2014), noting that “even when an illicit action is ‘cured’ it does not absolve a public body of its responsibility for violating the Sunshine Law in the first instance; it simply provides a way to salvage a void act by reconsidering it in Sunshine.”
It must be emphasized, however, that only a full open hearing will cure the defect; a violation of the Sunshine Law will not be cured by a perfunctory ratification of the action taken outside of the sunshine. Spillis Candela & Partners, Inc. v. Centrust Savings Bank, 535 So. 2d 694 (Fla. 3d DCA 1988). See also Anderson v. City of St. Pete Beach, 161 So. 3d at 553 (city failed to cure Sunshine Law violation since it merely perfunctorily ratified in public session what had already been decided in closed meetings).

Neither of the two meetings were secret. Notices were published for both in the Orlando Sentinel. Reporters from the three local network affiliates (ABC, CBS, NBC) were at the meetings. It's in the meeting minutes.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Yes but what your position ignores and why it’s garnered so many responses… is the stuff on their shoe is from the government… not the public.

That’s the difference here. Disney isn’t being singled out by individuals- but by the florida gop abusing their office
Think you made a typo - FTFY. ;)
 

Chi84

Premium Member
It might help to clarify that there are two separate notice requirements being discussed here. Violation of the open meetings law will make any actions taken non-binding, but that law requires only reasonable notice, which is likely satisfied by publication.

The second notice requirement involves the development agreement. That’s the notice that needs also to be mailed to affected parties and failure to do so will not in itself “void” the agreement. More is required.

Apologies to those who are already familiar with this, but there seems to be some confusion. I hope I’m not adding to it lol.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Imagine forcing everyone to accept something someone did illegally….
But that isn’t what is happening. An “affected property owner” can challenge the validity of the agreement by saying they should have been notified. The statute itself does not define “affected property owner.” The board isn’t acting on any specific complaints. It’s a hypothetical that the district’s prior determination of affected parties requiring notice was incorrect. I don’t think governing bodies should be precluded from re-evaluating their conduct, but it seems a flimsy argument for undoing previous decisions that are without complaint.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Any landowner who feels they have a valid case for being negatively impacted has the right to challenge the agreement in court based on the alleged lack of mailing, correct? So nobody is forced to accept it unless they decide to challenge it and lose. Conversely, why punish Disney for someone else's alleged failure to mail the notices, especially when the notices were published in the local paper and the contracts discussed at public hearings? If no landowners ate negatively impacted then Disney shouldn't suffer. The spirit of the law matters.

Imagine this hypothetical…

District employee enters into a purchasing agreement with a vendor that is not legal because of some unmet requirement or conflict… lets say it was a deal with his own company. The district employee is fired. The deal is beneficial to the vendor… so they aren’t gonna sue to void the deal.. You think district management is now forced to respect the deal because it was done by the now former district employees and the district can’t act against their contract because of their own deficiencies?
 

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