News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[LAKid53]

I dont claim to be right about anything I typed. I made that clear. Im only saying there are many different possibilities at play here. The dynamics between Disney+RCID+State of Florida are very complex and I doubt that anybody on this boad had a 100% gasp on all the issues from each player.

Dusney's lawyers feel confident...Florida's lawyers also feel confident. Both sides are armed with good legal minds. Disney is not the only one with great lawyers. Anybody with $$$$ can get brilluant lawyers.

Did Disney do everything right? Maybe!
Could Disney have broken laws? Maybe!

We are ALL going to see this play out over the next year or two in the courts. Ultimately..."they" will determine which lawyers are right and which are wrong. Im just a guy gueseing in a forum like most people here.

Yes....this kind of stuff HAS happened in other places before so its not unheard of.

Except in Florida when government at any level engages in rule making, Chapters 120 and 286 require public input into the process. And 2 or more members of those governments can't have meetings amongst themselves wherein they discuss a matter that will in the forceable future come before that body. I'd they do, they are subject to fines and penalties. Some have gone to jail.

 

[GoofGoof]

Here is a different view point, it came from WESH:

"I think the argument that we’re probably going to see from the state of Florida is that these agreements were self-dealing," Kramer said. "What Disney is going to argue is that these agreements were done within the laws, within the confines, within what was required of the Reedy Creek district."

If the legal battle ends in the state’s favor, DeSantis promises public safety pay raises and a reassessment of property value to potentially have the company pay more in taxes in Orange and Osceola counties. Kramer predicts it will be a tough case for Disney to win.

"The state of Florida has the ability to legislate and to regulate the district," he said.

Is that Kramer from Seinfeld? This has nothing to do with tax assessments with the counties. That’s literally made up. The counties and Disney fight over tax assessments all the time. This agreement has no bearing on that.

 

[LAKid53]

I actually think a half decent compromise would be the leave the development agreement in place and then let the counties either elect or appoint the board members. Maybe 3 from OC and 2 Osceola or 4-1 since most of the district is in Orange. This way Disney doesn’t “control“ their own government and there’s a level of independent oversight that some claim is the rational for doing this and the Governor doesn’t get to abuse his power. The people most directly impacted by the actions of the district will be people who live locally so why not give them a say through either a direct election or by allowing their elected representatives to appoint to board?

That's a very proper solution. Furthermore, you have the opportunity to put people of the Board who have some expertise in the matter.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

100% this. Remove the disinformation, bad faith takes, and outright lies that pertain to this entire situation, and that's exactly what his whole thing is about and comes down to.

To DeSantis, Disney symbolizes social liberalism, which emphasizes diversity, inclusiveness, and equality. Those values are antithetical to DeSantis and how he plans to remake the state according to his worldview. Disney pushing back on his, in my opinion, homophobic law gave him the opportunity to target them in order for Disney to get back in line and adhere to social conservatism. Not the "live and let live just leave us alone" social conservatism, but the more militant and aggressive "we believe everyone should live according to our views" kind.

Which is why this is extremely dangerous, because if DeSantis can control Disney and force them into submission and conformity, he can do this to anyone, businesses, individuals, politicians, judges, you name it. He's already done this by removing elected officials who don't align with his views. He will keep doing this in various ways until he's stopped. Right now, those are us cheering for Disney are hoping that the courts aren't completely captive and they push back. Otherwise we'll be in no man's land where the law and the Constitution are only as good as who's in power and who interests are involved in having a favorable intreprelation that upends all other laws and contracts. Thats why this is so important and it's not just Disney, and many of us who are critical of corporate power are actually rooting for the corporation to prevail over the state.

I think it’s much simpler than that, Disney dared defy an egomaniac, and his ego won’t allow him to let it go.

Until they defied him I dont think he gave Disney or their social politics a second thought.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Here is a different view point, it came from WESH:

"I think the argument that we’re probably going to see from the state of Florida is that these agreements were self-dealing," Kramer said. "What Disney is going to argue is that these agreements were done within the laws, within the confines, within what was required of the Reedy Creek district."

If the legal battle ends in the state’s favor, DeSantis promises public safety pay raises and a reassessment of property value to potentially have the company pay more in taxes in Orange and Osceola counties. Kramer predicts it will be a tough case for Disney to win.

"The state of Florida has the ability to legislate and to regulate the district," he said.

So the state will win by further violating home rule and telling the counties and their independently elected property appraisers how much to assess certain properties within their jurisdiction?

 

[Mr. Stay Puft]

That's a very proper solution. Furthermore, you have the opportunity to put people of the Board who have some expertise in the matter.

Yeah, but then DeSantis won't have control over Disney and the district. Which is ultimately what he wants.

It's not about what's fair and reasonable. It's about control and subjugation.

 

[Chi84]

Here is a different view point, it came from WESH:

"I think the argument that we’re probably going to see from the state of Florida is that these agreements were self-dealing," Kramer said. "What Disney is going to argue is that these agreements were done within the laws, within the confines, within what was required of the Reedy Creek district."

If the legal battle ends in the state’s favor, DeSantis promises public safety pay raises and a reassessment of property value to potentially have the company pay more in taxes in Orange and Osceola counties. Kramer predicts it will be a tough case for Disney to win.

"The state of Florida has the ability to legislate and to regulate the district," he said.

I read the article and there’s virtually no analysis. He doesn’t explain what kind of self-dealing could be alleged. Legal pleading requirements are much stricter than constraints on political ranting.

 

[LAKid53]

Why does everybody always blame the Governor exclusively. Everything people hate about this starts with the legislators. The bill is created and voted on by LIKE-MINDED people over there FIRST. Only after it passes by majority on both sides does the Governor get it and sign it.

All the legislators are free from people's criticism? People only think about "ONE" guy in all of this? Laws cant be blamed on "one" person because it takes MANY representatives to make and vote and sign a bill into law. The Governor cannot do this on his own.

Do you think the governor was silent when Chapek finally publicly opposed the bill? No, he was not. He said that if the Legislature sends him a bill, he'll sign it. That was NOT his first comment on the issue.

 

[afterabme]

Is that Kramer from Seinfeld? This has nothing to do with tax assessments with the counties. That’s literally made up. The counties and Disney fight over tax assessments all the time. This agreement has no bearing on that.

Point in case: https://floridapolitics.com/archives/576852-disney-is-suing-over-its-property-tax-assessments-again/

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I actually think a half decent compromise would be the leave the development agreement in place and then let the counties either elect or appoint the board members. Maybe 3 from OC and 2 Osceola or 4-1 since most of the district is in Orange. This way Disney doesn’t “control“ their own government and there’s a level of independent oversight that some claim is the rational for doing this and the Governor doesn’t get to abuse his power. The people most directly impacted by the actions of the district will be people who live locally so why not give them a say through either a direct election or by allowing their elected representatives to appoint to board?

This would have been a sensible solution if the result was actually oversight, unfortunately this was never about oversight, it was about control, so sensible never factored into it.

 

[LAKid53]

I'm not a lawyer. I did not go to law school. I do work in the legal field, but I'm not an expert in law.

But even I know the state cannot retroactively void contracts ex post facto. That's like, pre-law elementary stuff you learn in civics classes. I'm not even sure a DeSantis controlled court would hold this up.

How stupid are these legislators?

Having interacted with a few, I plead the 5th.

 

[GBAB1973]

Passing a law that Disney can then sue as a violation of Article I, Section 10 (of both constitutions, how ironic), isn't going to make the state's case any more tenable.

I get that. I was more curious if this bill is being fast tracked because DeSantis has been told that the agreement cut in January between RCID and Disney likely is valid and legal?

 

[afterabme]

Once the bonds are paid off in the future, would it still be in the interest of the state or Disney to maintain the district, given the size and complexity of WDW?

If eventually dissolved, then perhaps certain CRAs will be set up to help fund projects for WDW.

 

[LAKid53]

Exactly. We agree on this. I am more speaking to Cliff who seems to be pushing this idea that maybe there are nefarious acts behind the scenes.

I worked in state government nearly 40 years. Nefariousness tends not to be carried out in full view of the press.

 

[Disney Analyst]

The hits keep on coming.

 

[lentesta]

Here is a different view point, it came from WESH:

"I think the argument that we’re probably going to see from the state of Florida is that these agreements were self-dealing," Kramer said. "What Disney is going to argue is that these agreements were done within the laws, within the confines, within what was required of the Reedy Creek district."

If the legal battle ends in the state’s favor, DeSantis promises public safety pay raises and a reassessment of property value to potentially have the company pay more in taxes in Orange and Osceola counties. Kramer predicts it will be a tough case for Disney to win.

"The state of Florida has the ability to legislate and to regulate the district," he said.

As noted in many earlier posts here, the ill-defined term "self-dealing" is probably one of the fundamental purposes of special districts.

 

[LAKid53]

Once the bonds are paid off in the future, would it still be in the interest of the state or Disney to maintain the district, given the size and complexity of WDW?

If eventually dissolved, then perhaps certain CRAs will be set up to help fund projects for WDW.

Universal sits in one.

 

[LAKid53]

As noted in many earlier posts here, the ill-defined term "self-dealing" is probably one of the fundamental purposes of special districts.

I'm sure that holds for all the airport and port special districts in the state.

 

[GBAB1973]

Probably not, but that still doesn't justify the continued existence of RCID. Two wrongs don't make a right.



They still want to sell entertainment to DeSantis supporters. Yeah, it comes down to a hard choice between appealing to blue state residents or red state residents, they would be justified in picking blue state residents, but they don't want to have to choose just yet.

And since it feels in-theme to pull out old adages: you catch more flies wth honey than vinegar.

No one has made a cogent argument as to why RCID should be disbanded. Sure some have pointed out this or that but where's the real argument that can hold up in court that would justify disbanding the RCID?

And more importantly, the Governor and his henchmen in the legislature haven't laid forth substantial reasons for their overreach. I mean DeSantis literally just throws catch phrases out there to justify what he's done - "Pay their fair share" blah, blah, blah.

 

[LAKid53]

What does the new board control?

Not much at this juncture